ADVICE PLEASE - NOTICE OF INTENDED PROSECUTION - M1 SOUTHBOUND MIDNIGHT - VARIABLE SPEED LIMIT

[rockits]

Why do you need to brake hard? The speed limit signs are visible well in advance allowing you to back off the throttle or brake gently if absolutely necessary.

Unless there’s an immediate hazard following the first variable speed limit sign, then significant reductions in speed limit will be achieved in several steps, eg 70, 60, 50, 40 rather than 70, 40, 40, 40.

I don't think there is enough notice to see, react then ease off the gas slowly without touching the brake. I would like to know some facts as that would be good. Would be nice to know what distance the average human eyesight could see and process a gantry speed sign at midnight with roadworks going on. I expect you will still need to brake as a 2 ton car travelling at 70 or 60 mph wouldn't naturally slow enough in time. As I found out. By the time I had seen/noticed the sign speed had changed, reacted and started to slow it was too late. Would have loved to have had a GPS dashcam showing my speed and changes.

I'm not trying to speed or flout the law. Just trying to work out what speed I should doing to be able to stick to it. If I should be prosecuted for doing 64 in a 60 then fair enough.

On average speed camera sections there is much much more notice and it all works very well. There are also many occasions where NSL/70 signs display 50 or 40 straight away with no notice other than the first gantry camera......sorry speed displayed signage! I have been along several sections of motorway when it displays 50 or 40 suddenly from 70/NSL. There are no lanes closed, no hazards, no issues at all. It is clear and running fine....then 2 gantry's later it pops back up with 70/NSL again.

Speeding fine revenue goes directly to the govt bank account. It is a tax.....just be honest about it govt. SAC revenues go to the police forces that supply them or for the 3rd party approved contractors they employ if they don't do it themselves. It is £45 per attendant I understand. I expect this also generates profits and more than covers costs. it is another tax if any profit is generated. It should cover only costs. Unless this money goes back into road safety.

None of this is about safety or the law. It is all about tax. Just another stealth one. I have no problem with this at all....stuff needs to be paid for. Just be honest & upfront about it.

 

[Yugguy]

What annoyed me was the changes between successive gantries from 60 to 50 to 60 to 50. You can't tell me that's not trying to catch drivers out.

 

[rockits]

Agreed, why not just keep it all at 50?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I don't think there is enough notice to see, react then ease off the gas slowly without touching the brake. I would like to know some facts as that would be good. Would be nice to know what distance the average human eyesight could see and process a gantry speed sign at midnight with roadworks going on. I expect you will still need to brake as a 2 ton car travelling at 70 or 60 mph wouldn't naturally slow enough in time. As I found out. By the time I had seen/noticed the sign speed had changed, reacted and started to slow it was too late. Would have loved to have had a GPS dashcam showing my speed and changes.

I'm not trying to speed or flout the law. Just trying to work out what speed I should doing to be able to stick to it. If I should be prosecuted for doing 64 in a 60 then fair enough.

On average speed camera sections there is much much more notice and it all works very well. There are also many occasions where NSL/70 signs display 50 or 40 straight away with no notice other than the first gantry camera......sorry speed displayed signage! I have been along several sections of motorway when it displays 50 or 40 suddenly from 70/NSL. There are no lanes closed, no hazards, no issues at all. It is clear and running fine....then 2 gantry's later it pops back up with 70/NSL again.

Speeding fine revenue goes directly to the govt bank account. It is a tax.....just be honest about it govt. SAC revenues go to the police forces that supply them or for the 3rd party approved contractors they employ if they don't do it themselves. It is £45 per attendant I understand. I expect this also generates profits and more than covers costs. it is another tax if any profit is generated. It should cover only costs. Unless this money goes back into road safety.

None of this is about safety or the law. It is all about tax. Just another stealth one. I have no problem with this at all....stuff needs to be paid for. Just be honest & upfront about it.

I drive through similar variable speed limit zones twice each day, and when I pass a speed limit sign then I can see the next, and that gives me more than enough time to adjust my speed without braking, as long as I’m looking for the sign before I reach it. I human though, and so sometimes I don’t.

 

[rockits]

I think I need to get down to Specsavers!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Agreed, why not just keep it all at 50?

It’s so that drivers don’t complain that it’s slower than it needs to be. When used in sections of road with ongoing works, then the variable speed limit should change depending upon hazard and risk, for example slowing down where lanes are closed or narrowed, further still for chicanes and contraflows, and of course where there are people working.

In the clip, it looks like the speed limit reduced from 60 mph to 50 mph ahead of a lane closure. In addition to the 50 signs, there’s a red X to the left indicating that the leftmost lane is already closed, a flashing yellow arrow to the right indicating that the rightmost lane will close ahead, and there’s an additional illuminated sign to the left to indicate that there are roadworks ahead. There’s also a speed camera sign.

Merging traffic bunches up traffic, made worse by vehicles braking, so the reducing speed limit is intended to enable traffic to merge safely, with reduced need for braking. It may also be reducing speed in steps for other hazards further ahead, such as a contraflow or chicane.

Likewise the speed limit should increase once the hazard/risk has passed (until the next).

 

[rockits]

In the clip, it looks like the speed limit reduced from 60 mph to 50 mph ahead of a lane closure. In addition to the 50 signs, there’s a red X to the left indicating that the leftmost lane is already closed, a flashing yellow arrow to the right indicating that the rightmost lane will close ahead, and there’s an additional illuminated sign to the left to indicate that there are roadworks ahead. There’s also a speed camera sign.
Merging traffic bunches up traffic, made worse by vehicles braking,

Just reading that alone confuses the bejesus out of me and that is without it being dark

 

[RonFleet]

A lot of drivers do this, speed up after gantries/cameras. I believe M3 has average speed limits cameras now.

Be careful. It does have average speed cameras, but I saw cars being flashed going southbound around J3 for Lightwater last weekend (I was travelling northbound), so they seem to be going for maximum income by the look of it.

 

[neilrr]

Rockits,

What did you post this on pepipoo.com ?

 

[PXW]

Be careful. It does have average speed cameras, but I saw cars being flashed going southbound around J3 for Lightwater last weekend (I was travelling northbound), so they seem to be going for maximum income by the look of it.

I believe the M3 "smart" motorway is HADECS controlled - so spot speed readings - which would have been the flashes you saw at Lightwater. There is the sneaky average speed section on the M25/M3 southbound intersection - the junction itself is quite reasonably 50mph, but the exit average speed camera is well past the end of the intersection, and I regularly see drivers accelerating to normal motorway speeds far too soon. That camera must make a packet. I'm not aware of any other average speed camera sections - but as a local I definitely need to know if there are, so please do correct me!

 

[markjay]

I believe the M3 "smart" motorway is HADECS controlled - so spot speed readings - which would have been the flashes you saw at Lightwater. There is the sneaky average speed section on the M25/M3 southbound intersection - the junction itself is quite reasonably 50mph, but the exit average speed camera is well past the end of the intersection, and I regularly see drivers accelerating to normal motorway speeds far too soon. That camera must make a packet. I'm not aware of any other average speed camera sections - but as a local I definitely need to know if there are, so please do correct me!

Thanks. Going to Bisley today so will be driving past Lightwater. Will keep an eye out for the cameras on the M3... and watch my speed at all times

 

[PenelopePitstop]

I suspected that M3 part might be average speed, as most people drive suspiciously slow, around 70. But maybe there's so many cameras that it's not worth accelerating between them. It used to be my favourite motorway and I used to commute on it for a year too. Now I just avoid it.

Average 50mph by M25/M3 junction was there as long as I remember. So nothing new. The only difference is, that last camera seems to be closer to delimiter sign.

 

[rockits]

Gees.....its worse than I thought out there!

Ironically all this progress, new technology, new bigger/faster motorways with more lanes is meaning that in the real world we are travelling slower than the 60's. Also avoiding motorways and using the exact roads that motorways were invented to take traffic away from. Genuis!

We are a clever bunch sometimes the English. We can do some absolutely amazing things one minute with incredible engineering. The next we can be as thick as two short planks with no foresight or seemingly intellect at all.

Just call it a speeding tax and be done with it.

tax
taks/
noun
noun: tax; plural noun: taxes

1. 1.
   a compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and business profits, or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions.
   "higher taxes will dampen consumer spending"

 

[Stratman]

"a compulsory contribution to state revenue"

Speeding fines are voluntary

 

[rockits]

"a compulsory contribution to state revenue"

Speeding fines are voluntary

Technically taxes are voluntary. Ask Jimmy Carr [emoji6]

 

[rockits]

Or Amazon, Apple, Costa and many more!

 

[Dryce]

Ironically all this progress, new technology, new bigger/faster motorways with more lanes is meaning that in the real world we are travelling slower than the 60's. Also avoiding motorways and using the exact roads that motorways were invented to take traffic away from. Genuis!

We are a clever bunch sometimes the English. We can do some absolutely amazing things one minute with incredible engineering. The next we can be as thick as two short planks with no foresight or seemingly intellect at all.

You English are living in a country with a lot of very dense traffic in its southern parts.

Traffic speeds in some parts have dropped. But it's remarkable given the amount of traffic just how far you can travel in a given number of hours with a bit of planning. I'd say on most journeys things have improved since the 60s for most of the day - though not on some routes or at rush hour. Cars, vans, and lorres are quicker and roads are better. The real problem is traffic volume.

If there was a solution to merging traffic more effctively without disrupting the flow then that would improve things quite a bit in some areas of congestion - but I suspect that to solve that problem needs self driving cars that can coordinate - or some very clever signage and a lot of driver education and cooperation.

 

[markjay]

I can understand the 50mph restriction on the slip road between the M25 South and the M3 West... but I can't understand the 50mph restriction on the M3 itself under the elevated section going West from London. What's the point of a 50mph motorway?

I can only imagine that they somehow got the slip road wrong and as result had to restrict traffic speed also on the motorway itself.

If it is indeed the case that it's due to a design fault, then that's a real shame because that section of the road was rebuilt only two years ago.

Anyways... I am happy to report that my journey to Bisley and back today was eventful

 

[Dryce]

If it is indeed the case that it's due to a design fault, then that's a real shame because that section of the road was rebuilt only two years ago.

I was driving the M8-M73-M74-A725 area a couple of weeks ago - it was reworked a few months ago - and I thought it a bit untidy in places.

Something has happened in the last two decades where UK roads and layout and markings and signage seem less wel thought out.

We have a lot more signage in general and I'm not sure that this is a good thing.

And in Scotland the big yellow illuminated information signs overhead or at the road side often have messages that are not relevant to traffic conditions - their use should be restricted to providing important information and not things like 'DONT DRINK AND DRIVE' or 'RED X IS MANDATORY' or some general reference to weather such snow or winds being forecast with no indication as to when and where.

 

[E55BOF]

Dryce, it's the ever-increasing onward march of the Nanny State.