Any CCTV gurus on the forum?

[addbuyer]

We live in a rural location in a detached property that sits in it's own land set back from (but visible) from the road. Over the years we have had a few minor "petty" thefts from our garden, but no burglaries. There is some evidence in the locale to suggest that where CCTV has been visibly installed, it is these houses that then fall victim to burglary. The thinking being that the burglars are working under the assumption that you have something worth protecting. I accept that this is an inverse phycology? But it does make me wonder. Recently I have started to think more about home security and did have a few quotes for CCTV. Interestingly, the chap who seemed the most attentive and helpful came down heavily on the alarm side of the business. He stated that CCTV (in his opinion) on it's own is a "poor" deterrent?

Has anybody got any support information on this?

We live at the end o a lane with fields around us and I was always concerned that we would be the target before others. I had dummy cameras for some years and like the live cameras I know have, they are really piece of mind items. No one bothers to go and look whose alarm it is that's pissing them off. You could be right about CCTV homes have something to protect though.
It gives me piece of mind to be able to view anytime and should the worse happen, I will at least have something to show the police and the insurance company

 

[Dave.tam]

We live in a rural location in a detached property that sits in it's own land set back from (but visible) from the road. Over the years we have had a few minor "petty" thefts from our garden, but no burglaries. There is some evidence in the locale to suggest that where CCTV has been visibly installed, it is these houses that then fall victim to burglary. The thinking being that the burglars are working under the assumption that you have something worth protecting. I accept that this is an inverse phycology? But it does make me wonder. Recently I have started to think more about home security and did have a few quotes for CCTV. Interestingly, the chap who seemed the most attentive and helpful came down heavily on the alarm side of the business. He stated that CCTV (in his opinion) on it's own is a "poor" deterrent?

Has anybody got any support information on this?

I can confirm that 90%+ of residential burglaries that I have been to have not had CCTV, or an alarm system.

However, on the other hand, when it comes to non res burglaries, the opposite is true!

CCTV also doesn't often help evidentially when it come to suspect description, as they invariably cover their faces. But it does however help with times/clothing description, and direction of travel. Also sometimes suspects have been identified on their gate, i.e. The way they walk etc.

Imho, it IS definately worth having CCTV installed, but it's most effective with a monitored alarm and otherwise secure house/office.

 

[TheFoX]

Imho, it IS definately worth having CCTV installed, but it's most effective with a monitored alarm and otherwise secure house/office.

In addition to alarms and CCTV, install good security lighting. There is nothing worse than approaching a private property in darkness when, all of a sudden, it lights up like a Christmas tree.

Security lighting is very good these days, with small 10w LED lights able to cover a large area in light. I have four 10w LEDs covering the front and rear of my property, along with four CCTV cameras, and it has deterred the neighbours next door from trying to break in.

Because I use security lights in conjunction with CCTV, it means that CCTV alerts are generated either by movement or by the security lights coming on when triggered by movement.

 

[rockits]

CCTV is not expensive these days are easy for most DIYer's to install. It is a lottery really whether it prevents crime or not. Most criminals cover themselves and many don't care anyway it seems. The CPS and police barely ever catch or prosecute these criminals so the deterent is not really real or there. Got to be worth having than not though.

We got broken into at our small industrial unit a year or so ago with 4 Cisco CCTV camera with 3 x Internal and 1 external in vandal proof metal case with heater. The 2 criminals took 15 mins to break in, were inside for 2 mins, cut through a live 230v power cable to pinch 4 laptops and an iMac. All broken and we're being fixed. We had two way audio as well as seeing it all. Gave all footage to the Police on a DVD. Police were useless, didn't have a clue and I heard nothing about catching or locking them up. In conclusion the Police and CCTV were a waste of time & money in this instance. With real time alerts and security lights etc. It would have been better.

These guys were idiots and low tech crims. If a pro wants to get in they will. It wouldn't be hard to disable, defeat or render most CCTV cameras useless pretty easily. Many are mounted too low, many can be hacked off easily enough. Would surprise me if there is a telescopic pole to spray black paint over the face of them easily enough.

As I said it has to be better to have them than not but don't expect them to stop crime or reduce it much. As others have said it often means you feel you have something to protect which is an attraction in the first place to some.

 

[Dave.tam]

I think people's expectations of the police are a bit far fetched sometimes.

There isn't a very realistic chance of catching the suspects unless....

1. They leave some kind of forensic evidence at the scene. (This is normally from habitual drug users though leave blood at the scene while breaking windows)

2. There is a witness who saw the incident and recognises the suspects. (VERY rarely happens!)

Or 3. The stolen items are recovered after being sold on, and traced back to the suspects/burglary.

The only other way the police can realistically catch a burglar is either in the act (which happens more often than you would think!) or if a CCTV image is circulated and the suspect(s) are recognised by a police officer who has dealt with them before.

It's not nice to hear, but what do you expect from the police? There's only so much of an investigation that can be carried out.

 

[rockits]

We had a customer burgled one night at 3am....inside job from cleaning contract company it was discovered. As we had remote software to access them for IT support we provided for them we could see some of them were online within 24 hours. We told the Police and gave the the WAN IP addresses they were using but they could do nothing because of data protection from the ISP's I was told.

When they broke into our offices. They left footprints, hair and their tools on our workbench. Obviously not the sharpest tools in the box. They weren't on the Police DB though so not known to them so nothing went further.

They haven't been caught since I'm guessing either as I expect I would have heard something back.

I agree we have this weird expectation that the Police can find criminals and prosecute them. I'm sure if I committed a crime as a squeaky clean law abiding citizen I would get caught and banged up in 5 mins

 

[Gaz-M]

Hi Dave, I wouldnt want to start trying to tell you the ins and outs of the 3 you linked as Im not all that clued up. All I can say is dont buy anything less that 1080P and I would recommend the Swann stuff as Ive had a few now.

My CCTV is more of a gadget than anything, I can be in my garage with doors closed, CCTV on TV in garage and see whos arriving/ outside.

If you are on holiday or away from home its handy to have a quick check everything is okay back home. When we had high winds I was checking my fence hadnt blown down etc!

Also in my house if someone is at my door I can check on my phone app who it is before I decide to answer.

Way more use than just security![emoji1360]


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[Dave.tam]

Hi Dave, I wouldnt want to start trying to tell you the ins and outs of the 3 you linked as Im not all that clued up. All I can say is dont buy anything less that 1080P and I would recommend the Swann stuff as Ive had a few now.

My CCTV is more of a gadget than anything, I can be in my garage with doors closed, CCTV on TV in garage and see whos arriving/ outside.

If you are on holiday or away from home its handy to have a quick check everything is okay back home. When we had high winds I was checking my fence hadnt blown down etc!

Also in my house if someone is at my door I can check on my phone app who it is before I decide to answer.

Way more use than just security![emoji1360]


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I know what you mean, I do exactly the same

It's cool being able to see who's outside my door on my phone, or even check on the cars etc.

I think that no matter what the make, most generic off the shelf CCTV systems for home use are pretty much the same. I like the Yale one as the app on my phon/tablet allows me to work my alarm too, and also has controls for a PTZ camera. Not bad for a free app

 

[Dave.tam]

We had a customer burgled one night at 3am....inside job from cleaning contract company it was discovered. As we had remote software to access them for IT support we provided for them we could see some of them were online within 24 hours. We told the Police and gave the the WAN IP addresses they were using but they could do nothing because of data protection from the ISP's I was told.

When they broke into our offices. They left footprints, hair and their tools on our workbench. Obviously not the sharpest tools in the box. They weren't on the Police DB though so not known to them so nothing went further.

They haven't been caught since I'm guessing either as I expect I would have heard something back.

I agree we have this weird expectation that the Police can find criminals and prosecute them. I'm sure if I committed a crime as a squeaky clean law abiding citizen I would get caught and banged up in 5 mins

Data protection doesn't come into it when it's for the purpose of crime detection, so I'm not sure what went wrong there. All they have to do is submit a specific form and the company are obliged to hand over the data for an active criminal investigation. I know that there are some issues here though as Apple recently refused to help the FBI or CIA break an iPhone. Can't comment on that kinda stuff though as its well beyond my pay grade!

With regard to the evidence found at the scene though, all foot prints are checked against a database, but are obviously a little harder to match than a fingerprint or DNA. Hair is perfect as it gives a complete DNA profile, but of course that's only any good if the suspects have already been arrested and had their DNA taken.

The good thing about DNA though is that it doesn't change or go away. Anytime someone is arrested, their DNA is taken, along with their fingerprints, and these are subject to a speculative search, which means that they're checked against any outstanding crimes where DNA or fingerprints have been located.

You don't have to be a cleaver person to break the law and not get caught! It's all too easy, and the police will very rarely catch the smart ones....sad, but invariably true

 

[reflexboy]

Back again-so I bought the Swann Plantinum HD system with an NVR and four 4MP cameras. So far so good and great picture quality.
Set up the motion detection on each cam and adjusted the sensitivity to suit. Tested it so as I don't get too many triggers (which send me an email with a snapshot) and all was fine.........until I woke up this morning to 1,119 emails of motion detection. Reviewing the footage, it started raining at about 3am and the movement of the rain drops in front of the cameras caused the triggers. The sensitivity is tuned right down too. Any idea how to fix this?

 

[brucemillar]

Back again-so I bought the Swann Plantinum HD system with an NVR and four 4MP cameras. So far so good and great picture quality. Set up the motion detection on each cam and adjusted the sensitivity to suit. Tested it so as I don't get too many triggers (which send me an email with a snapshot) and all was fine.........until I woke up this morning to 1,119 emails of motion detection. Reviewing the footage, it started raining at about 3am and the movement of the rain drops in front of the cameras caused the triggers. The sensitivity is tuned right down too. Any idea how to fix this?

Just give me a couple of days to stop laughing.

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[addbuyer]

Any idea how to fix this?

Yep, switch it off or send it back.

I get the occasional trigger from rain on the Y-Cam Homemonitor when it's very heavy rain. I've turned off the email notifications and just have the push ones on which are small banners on the screen. Like all CCTV systems you learn to ignore them and just look through the footage when you notice something amiss or your away and want to stream live footage.

Still I suppose it gives you something to do whilst have your breakfast

 

[Gaz-M]

Cant help, i dont have mine set up anything other than motion detection. Interesting one, how can a camera possibly tell what is rain drops and what is actual movement it wants to record!?


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[reflexboy]

Cant help, i dont have mine set up anything other than motion detection. Interesting one, how can a camera possibly tell what is rain drops and what is actual movement it wants to record!? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

does your system not trigger when it rains? Are your cameras outside?

 

[Gaz-M]

Mine are outside yes, I dont get notifications or check recordings (touch wood ive had no reason to) so I couldnt tell you for sure, but im pretty sure when its been raining and ive had it up on my tv in garage, it has showed its seeing activity/ recording. So i think mine is the same but not really a problem for me. Have you Googled?


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[reflexboy]

I wanted it to email me with a pic when there was movement, but rain, in effect is movement, and according to Swann's helpline, there is not much that can be done about that. I could set it to just record when there is movement and not email me, but that seems a little pointless as I would have no email notification of movement. I have just set it to record 24/7 at max. resolution. I have worked out the hard drive will last about 10-14 days and at the point it's full, it will re-record over the oldest footage, so not a problem for me.

 

[markmifsud]

They all do that, also spiders spin webs etc. Even with no movement you will still get triggers where the system detects low light artifacts as movement.

Just disable the alert as its never going to be of much use.

 

[BTB 500]

From what I've read ... there are two different settings that need tuning for video motion detect to work reasonably reliably.

The first is sensitivity i.e. the amount of change it looks for on individual pixels from one video frame to the next. And the second is what percentage of the pixels in the frame need to show that change in order to start recording.

So you can filter out (say) a cat walking through the field of view by reducing the percentage setting. But heavy rain (or worse, snow) would always register as most of the frame will constantly be changing (on an outdoor camera).

I have a couple of simple standalone cameras I use inside the house. These only have a 'sensitivity' setting, so are pretty useless on motion detect during the day as changes in light levels e.g. from clouds going across the sun trigger them. Much better at night where the light levels are much more consistent.