Anyone else got W211 E class auto gearbox problems?

[GregE240]

Don't be so sure. I agree, dropping fluid out and chucking it back in is bread and butter. The cynic in me says the allure of flogging you a new shifter when yours finally becomes worm food probably has the pound signs in their eyes.

They change brake fluid every so often. Whilst that may be compressed more than tranny fluid, whats the difference?

I got an independant to do mine for me. I could have asked the dealer, but thought they'd tell me don't worry about it.

 

[glojo]

I pay Mercedes (damn fool I am) to maintain my vehicle to its optimum performance and if the oil needs changing dont you think they would do it. They usually take every opportunity to fleece you so are unlikely to miss this one! Thanks for the comments though!

Hi avoyager,
I am with you on this one, I believe that there are some Mercedes-Benz technicians on this forum so hopefully they might be able to elaborate on the following.

When our vehicle goes in for its ASSYST Plus service, it has a designated letter A - H. A being minor service and H being 'mega' bucks service. I also understand the techicians are informed via the diagnostics of any other problems. So, if the gearbox oil is not listed to be changed on any of the A - H service schedules, then it will NOT get changed. I have no knowledge of the instructions of what each service involves, can anyone help on this please? Does the gearbox or back axle oil every get replaced?

As I have previously stated I endorse your comments on Mercedes-Benz Main Dealers. You should at least expect good service, and by solely going to a main dealer it will help with any 'goodwill' warranty claim. I note how you previously mentioned replacement injectors.

Good luck with your problem,
John

 

[Shude]

A local independent garage mechanic told me that they don't usually touch the auto box on 1997+ MBs because it's sealed for life. Unless there is really a problem with it they leave it. IMHO they could easily cash-in on this if they wanted to but they choose not to, must be a good reason for that, dunno what it is.

 

[marcos]

My wifes uncle's best freind runs a fleet of W210 E270 CDI ( imports ) and W211 E270 CDI'S that he runs out of Heathrow and central London and they get a damn hard life. I've just asked colin about his cars and he reckons in covering over 2million miles between his cars every year he has in the past 5 yrs had no major mechanical problems so will never buy another make.

Personally I think he's been lucky but you can't argue with statistics like that

 

[avoyager]

How does he compare the W210 to newer W211 in terms of reliability.
PS.
Does your wifes uncle's best friend ever need chauffeur cars to cover the westcountry?

 

[fuzzer]

This thread is basically highlighting my thoughts for the poor saps buying 3 year old + 211's . You would have to be totally off your rocker to run one beyond the warranty or run one outside warranty ...

Just my 2p's . If the cars are making money for you , the last thing you need is them off the road , might be time for a change.

 

[avoyager]

yeh fuzzer your damn right!

Mind you 3 year old W211 will be dirt cheap probably. What happened to Rock solid Mercedes residuals.

 

[glojo]

This thread is basically highlighting my thoughts for the poor saps buying 3 year old + 211's . You would have to be totally off your rocker to run one beyond the warranty or run one outside warranty ...

Just my 2p's . If the cars are making money for you , the last thing you need is them off the road , might be time for a change.

Hi Fuzzer,
I'm reading this thread and I am far from being disheartened. As Marcos has stated he knows someone who owns some extremely high mileage vehicles and they appear very happy with them. Much to my surprise the Police are now buying the 211 and all my reports state they are highly delighted with them. My own vehicle will never reach the mileage that either Marcos talks of nor the Police vehicles. At least 300,000 miles is what the Police are expecting to get from their vehicles, avoyager has a problem, but name one brand of car that is 100% perfect.

I would however recommend that anyone considering purchasing this excellent vehicle second-hand makes sure it has got a perfect service history as they are very complex and perhaps 'ruled' by computers.

The only time I would change model would be if the S-class made an estate

I note that 'someone' here lists the S320CDI L

Regards,
John

 

[avoyager]

The only time I would change model would be if the S-class made an estate
Regards,
John

Yeh they do! its called a pullman


On a more gloomy note have a look at these!

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/investing/articles/0,15114,517706,00.html

and

http://www.mercedes-benz-usa.com/index.php

 

[marcos]

How does he compare the W210 to newer W211 in terms of reliability.

I will find out tomorrow if my crappy work permits, all hell has broken out at work and I get told we have been fleeced my the old Office manager.

Does your wifes uncle's best friend ever need chauffeur cars to cover the westcountry?

Quite possibly so I'll check for you, if so I'll give you his number.

 

[fuzzer]

Hi Fuzzer,
I'm reading this thread and I am far from being disheartened. As Marcos has stated he knows someone who owns some extremely high mileage vehicles and they appear very happy with them. Much to my surprise the Police are now buying the 211 and all my reports state they are highly delighted with them. My own vehicle will never reach the mileage that either Marcos talks of nor the Police vehicles. At least 300,000 miles is what the Police are expecting to get from their vehicles, avoyager has a problem, but name one brand of car that is 100% perfect.

I would however recommend that anyone considering purchasing this excellent vehicle second-hand makes sure it has got a perfect service history as they are very complex and perhaps 'ruled' by computers.

The only time I would change model would be if the S-class made an estate

I note that 'someone' here lists the S320CDI L

Regards,
John

Hi John ,

Its not so much what has broken so far in these cars , its the level of costs that the dealer keeps taking with absolutelty no backup if something out of the ordanary happens to a car.

Fair enough , take it in with a squeak and they will lube it and tell you to see how it goes. Take it in with a problem with the audio gateway shutting down all the consumers and they will be left scratching their head and wondering what the hell is going on with the car. Now , imagine this car is outside warranty and the complete interior has to come out to change the same audio gateway they seem to know nothing about... ding ding ding .. alarm bells ringing anyone? At 90 ish an hour .. who can afford that.

They have taken a reliable car in the 210 , tried to be all fancy dancy and created a technological masterpiece that the dealer network havent a clue about. maybe not many people have a clue about it actually.

Lets not even go there with SBC , the electronic braking system.

I , as a lot of higher mileage drivers must feel about the backup they recieve is pretty poor and fairly generic. Its all very well for someone to be doing low mileage and going to the dealer 0nce a year and having a coffee and saying they are great , but my 211 is in the dealer every few months getting a service as the car is used.

i hope ive got my point over about the cars being totally unmanagable as a second hand buy for someone. Another good point that was brought up today was ians car needing the new ECU . £1600 on a 92 oldschool 2.6 , so exactly how much are similar items going to be on the latest gen cars ?

rant over

 

[Robbo]

Fuzzer does make a very good point. I am in a similar position with my W203 which is outside warranty. I just drive around with my fingers crossed hoping for the best. So far no problems, but who knows how long that'll last for!

 

[glojo]

rant over

Morning Fuzzer,
Excellent 'rant' and well put.

I do not think anyone could disagree with your points. I think we will see problems with ALL modern cars with advanced technology as they get 'tired'. Will it be cost effective to carry on servicing them when they are ten years old?

Would it be more practical for high mileage users to buy cars with less onboard technology?

The average mileage for a private car owner has always been between 10 - 12000 miles per year and it is interesting that Mobiliolife expires after 30 years and also Police Forces are being sold these cars at extremely competitive prices and then getting a buy back option after 3 years!!!!! Which by coincidence will be approximately 300,000 miles. This mileage has a direct link between the 30 year bodywork warranty plus breakdown cover and 10,000 miles per year.

Mercedes-Benz are then presented with vehicles that have, shall we say 'been tested' and their engineers can go over these vehicles with a fine tooth comb and evaluate all the parts in fine detail.

High mileage users must decide if the 211 is the ideal vehicle for their needs? No doubt depreciation, running costs including servicing will all be taken into account prior to purchase and then a decision will be made. Chauffeur companies will all take these factors into account when working out their fees and it would be a complete nonsense for them to drive a Ford Fiesta or similar. However here I will be contraversial... Any high mileage user that buys any vehicle with the complexity of the 211, without doing sufficient research and costing is a bit naïve! Sorry for being blunt and perhaps rude.

Would I buy a high mileage second-hand 211? Certainly not. Would I buy a low mileage second-hand 211 with full service history? Yes

I have just remembered the saga of that other very technically advanced car the Citreon CX, now that did have problems

Regards to everyone,
John

 

[fuzzer]

Would it be more practical for high mileage users to buy cars with less onboard technology?

Any high mileage user that buys any vehicle with the complexity of the 211, without doing sufficient research and costing is a bit nieve! Sorry for being blunt and perhaps rude.

Don't worry about being rude , i suppose i can see your point , but when faced with doing a high mileage , your main concern is safety and comfort.

Ill give you a task for today , fine a car that can keep up an image with customers , provide effortless comfort , good MPG and doesnt have all the electronic gizmos in it. ( keeping in mind that even '92 mercedes have a £1600 brain)

Thats an impossible task. all i was highlighting was the lack of dealer understanding of the cars when they go wrong.

Would I buy a high mileage second-hand 211? Certainly not. Would I buy a low mileage second-hand 211 with full service history? Yes

Hmm , i would more than likely disagree on that point too. If given the choice , i would take the frequently maintained higher mileage car than the back and fourth to safeways car that has been heated up and cooled down for most of its life.

 

[glojo]

Hmm , i would more than likely disagree on that point too. If given the choice , i would take the frequently maintained higher mileage car than the back and fourth to safeways car that has been heated up and cooled down for most of its life.

Hi Fuzzer,
I am sure that we are both in agreement with each other and the detail is lost in the written word.

The paragraph I have highlighted being a pont in question.

Would I buy a five year old 211 with just 5000 miles on the clock and full service history of at the most three services?

The price would have to be right because as you quite correctly point out, the car has stood around for a lot of its life and contrary to popular believe this might very well NOT be a good thing.

Would I buy a three year old car with 100,000 miles on it?

Providing the mileage was taken into consideration and it had a full service history I would much prefer this car over the other example. I would however get it checked before purchase. A full history would also be a 'Must'

Your other point about image is an acceptable one although open to debate I am a Mercedes-Benz person, so I would go for either the 270 or 320CDI and the basic Elegance with the minimal amount of options. I have chosen the Elegance solely on cost. I much prefer the Avantgarde, but 'business is business my son' profit is profit. The 320 is slightly more quiet than the 270, but is the 270 more economical? Also what about an LPG conversion? (something else to go wrong) Can you buy the Classic with a 270CDI engine? That would be the cheapest option.

Your point about 'image' is one I understand, but my 'rich' accountant drives around in a nice moderately priced French 'thing'. He states that if he goes for a BMW or Mercedes-Benz then some of his customers might think he is charging too much!!!

I know there are a few accountants here and they have bery nice cars, I just wonder what sort of car my accountant uses privately? The prices he charges I imagine he has a nice Arnage or similar.

I hope I have not offended any of our very nice accountants,
Regards,
John

 

[Shude]

I would hope that by the time the W211 is 3+ years old that at some point everything that can go wrong on one will have, and the stealerships will be up to speed with them in time for warranties running out!

 

[jgevers]

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Apparently there are MLs and W210s out there that MB can't fix. These cars have intermittent problems. MB keep putting new bits on them without actually diagnosing the fault (or fixing the fault for that matter) The intermittent nature of these faults does make it very difficult to diagnose but if the owner of a car like that has to pay for these expensive non-fixes, Benz ownership does become a bit questionable.

regards,

Job.

PS you might find that an independent garage with the correct tools and knowledge will be a better bet for decent servicing AND fault diagnosis.

 

[Satch]

PS you might find that an independent garage with the correct tools and knowledge will be a better bet for decent servicing AND fault diagnosis.

Spot on. One key skill required nowdays (and one that is still in quite short supply) is that of being able to delve into the inner workings of CANbus and identify what a problem actually is.

Changing bits large at random is pathetic if there is a deeper underlying problem such as excessive noise in the bus itself but I suspect that is still where a number of service outlets are.

Also important is having in the first place decent diagnostic equipment and the ability to understand what it is telling you: bald error code messages are not enough e.g:

http://www.picotech.com/auto/waveforms.html

 

[glojo]

PS you might find that an independent garage with the correct tools and knowledge will be a better bet for decent servicing AND fault diagnosis.

I just wonder how much that specialised equipment would cost?

Would you need different specialist equipment for each model i.e. 210, 211 the C-class different models and upgrades. How much would the small garage have to put onto the hourly rate to recover the cost of the equipment. I refer of course to specialist equipment for actually working on the vehicle after the faults have been diagnosed.

Would the garage have to send its mechanics away on courses to keep them updated on all the latest technology? Then I suppose all these courses will have to be paid for.

I don't want to sound negative because specialists garages with ex skilled, clever Mercedes-Benz technicians are a very, very good option, but I just query whether they have the correct equipment to work on the very latest models of this excellent marque CL\SL55 AMG or any other complex model.

Regards,
John

 

[jgevers]

Hi Satch,

Just to expand on the subject. Most people are aware by now that modern vehicles run on a thing called Canbus. A few manufacturers run similar systems and call tem something else like VAN etc. Most manufacturers run 2 or 3 different Canbus systems in their vehicles (drivetrain systems, confort sytems, entertainment sytems). The difference in the systems is the speed The Canbus is nothing more than a computer network like you would have in an office. With the exeption that Canbus has 2 wire connecting rather than 1. The reason for having 2 wires (Can high and Can low) is to be able deal with electrical 'noise'.

With a scope you can look at the data on the canbus and see if both wires contain similar waveforms. This will determine whether there is wire damage or whether a control unit in the system is faulty and is putting an earth on one of the wires. What the scope can not tell is whether the actual data is correct. Serial diagnostic machines like Star, Winstar, Autodiagnos etc. will to some extent allow the mechanic to check for fault codes (what the vehicle's control units think is wrong), look at live data (see how the vehicle' control units think the sensors and actuators are operating) and actuate certain functions (throttle control, wiper motors, windows etc.).

What MB is not telling their dealers or aftermarket garages is the actual data protocol. In my garage we use a tool that pulls the data straight of the can bus and displays the information on the laptop. Our problem is that we spend hours and hours 'tagging' data. Once we have known data, we can compare this to other vehicles of the same make/model to determine if the relevant data is being sent or received by control units.

As far as I am concerned, this is the only way to diagnose Canbus systems correctly. The manufacturers are not letting the data protocols out, even to their dealers. This is the reason why so many control units are being replaced for no reason, purely because of lack of information, tooling and knowledge.

regards,

Job