Apple is making $8.3m profit an hour, 24 hours a day

[219]

I agree about the hardware software partnership but the user friendly interface you talk of is subjective. Many find it the total opposite and find it clunky and cumbersome.

Always cutting edge you say... well they did have a reasonable run of about 5 years but that ship sailed a while ago now.

Again, when looking at this with eyes open, Apple uses the most locked down operating systems that makes it harder to use free software. The software costs are greater, not less and very often you have to have a companion device or a virtual machine running windows in order to actually do what everyone else does.



I have doubts about this statement There is no iPhone on the planet with a good battery life, let alone one from six years ago.

I should say here that I support all platforms and use all platforms so I have a pretty good exposure of both sides. Apple devices do have their merits, they are generally beautifully made and they do hold their value well. Their customer service on many levels is impressive and their business model seems to be reaping massive rewards. I have to say though that since Steve Jobs' departure, the innovation seems to have all but dried up and I wonder how long customer loyalty will remain while others innovate and Apple stagnate.

The walled garden approach works well for many as it prevents them from breaking or infecting their devices and that's fine for those that have simple computing needs. When you look below the very thin but beautiful veneer however, the restrictions, inadequacies and costs are hugely frustrating as is Apple's stance to their competitors.

Apple polarises opinion like no other company I know. I would like to be a fan but struggle to do so.

Most people who aren't all that used to computers find the Mac user interface much more intuitive ; having been an Apple user since the Apple II and through every incarnation of Mac OS I find windows counter intuitive and a nightmare to use .

Re the hardware , my Macs had FireWire ports , thus enabling video editing , and came bundled with iMovie long before the competition could catch up . The original iPhone , now passed onto my mother , still holds charge for more than a day ( depending on use ) just as it always did , and as all my subsequent ones do .

As for Android - what is the attraction ? It is just as bad as windows , constantly going wrong ( we have two tablets in the house - Samsung Galaxy and something else my son got a year past for Christmas ) SWMBO hardly uses the Samsung as it is endlessly running updates , runs like a dog and is next to impossible to do anything on ; my six year old son discarded his and now uses an iPad , alongside his MacBook and iPhone - all of which he can use easily , but then his primary school use Macs in the classroom , not windows .

As for simple computing needs , well I do use them for Internet and email , then there's photo and video editing , to broadcastable standard , archiving to servers , graphics , desktop publishing , both at home and at work where we have networks of Macs of various ages set up .

The windows computers at work , run by the IT department are the ones constantly giving trouble , not our Macs .

As for costs , Macs do cost a little more up front , but then I still have G4 and G5 machines working reliably and usefully alongside newer Intel machines when windows stuff of similar vintage have long been scrapped .

 

[219]

Sigh...

Wrong wrong wrong wrong.

All the features which Apple launch every time a new OS comes out, Android has had for years.

Pick a high end Android, Nexus, Galaxy 5 etc and they by far excel anything Apple has to offer.

Pick a cheapo Android you will get a very old OS which lots of manufacturers bloatwear fitted yes.

Apple has had some appalling issues with its firmware in recent times, have you forgotten?

I (2 weeks ago) purchased a brand new Nexus 5 which was old stock, 2013 version for £260 SIM free. its specifications exceed anything the 4 month old iPhone 6 has...! check the specs if you dont believe me, and its £500 cheaper, with a far better OS. (now that 5.0 Lollipop bugs have been fixed).


EDIT, sorry the iphone 6 has a better camera (well, it is over a year younger)

Check the specs here:
Nexus 5 vs iPhone 6: is an old Nexus better than a new iPhone? - AndroidPIT

I'm not interested in chasing the latest model or paying silly amounts for phones ; I just pay my airtime and get a new handset every couple of years ; the airtime has been the same £28/month since the days of the old Nokia 6310 , only I now get a lot more time for the money as well as more sophisticated technology . I'm currently on an iPhone 5 and only get the next one when it's free ( covered by the tariff ) .

Android devices are no use to me since they don't seamlessly integrate with my Mac computers .

I can't say I've experienced any firmware issues with any of my kit .

Oh , if I want to take anything other than the most casual snapshots , I use a proper camera , so I don't really care about phone camera specs .

I like my tech to 'just work'

 

[Dryce]

Most people who aren't all that used to computers find the Mac user interface much more intuitive ; having been an Apple user since the Apple II and through every incarnation of Mac OS I find windows counter intuitive and a nightmare to use .

There are very few people these days who are not used to a computer.

And the real problem now is getting them to deal with wjhich ever type they are unfamiliar.

Re the hardware , my Macs had FireWire ports , thus enabling video editing , and came bundled with iMovie long before the competition could catch up . The original iPhone , now passed onto my mother , still holds charge for more than a day ( depending on use ) just as it always did , and as all my subsequent ones do .

Then you mum's been lucky. SWMBO has a 4S that is running tighter by the month on battery life.

My experience with MacBooks and iPhones is that Apple li-ion batterues are subject to the same physics as and chemistry as everybody elses.

As for Android - what is the attraction ?

Well some people look at iPhone or Lumia and Blackberry and think the same if they have Android.

I suspect the real attraction is that it is cheap and basically works.

A Moto G costs £115 from Tesco (I know this because I bought one in an a brazen defiance of SWMBO's wish that I got an iPhone).

As for simple computing needs , well I do use them for Internet and email , then there's photo and video editing , to broadcastable standard , archiving to servers , graphics , desktop publishing , both at home and at work where we have networks of Macs of various ages set up .

I do imaging stuff at home and really the OS and hardware is irrelevant in itself - its just an enabler for the stuff I want to run. Both Mac and Windows run the various applications.

The windows computers at work , run by the IT department are the ones constantly giving trouble , not our Macs .

At work. Doing different stuff with different types of users?

Yes I think that's my experience of computers pretty much everywhere.

Reverse to using Macs at work and PCs at home. I suspect you;d be saying the same thing - in reverse.

As for costs , Macs do cost a little more up front , but then I still have G4 and G5 machines working reliably and usefully alongside newer Intel machines when windows stuff of similar vintage have long been scrapped .

I fell off my seat when I read this.

Macs are hugely more expensive these days. Worse most people I know who run them also end up Windows on them via Parallels or Fusion.

The G4 and G5 stuff is professionally unsupportable unless you are able to leave them in a timewarp. New apps and OS support in the last few years? Forget it. You're really comparung keeping an old Windows XP machine going - and that's probably more viable in terms of finding applications that will still run.

And OS X doesn't even support their older x86 systems. TBH that personally was a bit of a shocker given how closed Apple's world is compared with Linux and Windows. But then they're a hardware company and forced obsolescence is more money for them.

Look the Apple stuff isn't at all bad. But they get the benefit (as ddo the likes of Nikon and Canon in tghe camera market) of having a large group of customers who tend to see them in a particuylar light vs the alterantives.

I've used Macs quite happily at various times. But really if you need to run Office or Photoshop or Oracle or SQL Server or Sage or whatever - the OS is just a means to an end.

For travel I carry a £329 11.6" laptop with Lightroom and Elements - there isn't really an Apple solution to something that disposable - no tears if it gets damaged or lost. Apple aren't even in that market - which is a pity in some ways.

 

[John]

The windows computers at work , run by the IT department are the ones constantly giving trouble , not our Macs.

I personally support 90 workstations and 86 are Windows and 4 of them are 27.5" iMacs running Lion.

See if you can guess which workstations give me immeasurably more grief.

 

[Giantvanman]

I personally support 90 workstations and 86 are Windows and 4 of them are 27.5" iMacs running Lion.

See if you can guess which workstations give me immeasurably more grief.

The windows ones. What do I win?

 

[Sp!ke]

We also have windows and Macs in our enterprise which I also support.

Anyone that says "macs just work" (I have even seen that comment in this thread) well, they don't know what the hell they are talking about.

Don't even talk to me about corporate iPhones.... what a mistake that was. Some people now on their 4th handset in a year.

 

[KillerHERTZ]

I agree, I look after around 70 handsets (phones) at work, all connected to a Server allowing us to package up and deliver applications & various other software, aswell as allowing us full remote control, screen mirroring and GPS tracking.

We initially purchased Apple devices which turned out to be a complete nightmare, buggy, difficult to configure and so many features lacking. We had no choice but to look into Android.

The handsets we use are relatively old & not too powerful (Samsung xCoverII's) but the level of control and options available, coupled with the reliability blow Apple devices out of the water.

Apple devices just work? Load of old tosh. Every major firmware update in the past 3 years has been crippled from the offset resulting with emergency fixes days after release.

Google themselves completely balls'd up their latest firmware (Lollipop) also.

Most people I have met have only seen a very basic, cheap Android phone and base their opinion on these, which is like comparing an A-Class to a 7-Series.

Edit: Apple devices just work do they? Story from less than 24hours ago:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/01/28/apple-ios-8-1-3-bugs/

And before I'm accused of being a fanboy, I have a long history of Apple products I've owned:
Power book 100
Macintosh LCII
PowerMac 7600/66
PowerMac 8200
iPod 3rdG
iPod Touch

 

[Dryce]

I agree, I look after around 70 handsets (phones) at work, all connected to a Server allowing us to package up and deliver applications & various other software, aswell as allowing us full remote control, screen mirroring and GPS tracking.

We initially purchased Apple devices which turned out to be a complete nightmare, buggy, difficult to configure and so many features lacking. We had no choice but to look into Android.

We did some work with a project that involved mobile data a couple of years ago. Windows Phone and Apple were too closed. The primary contractor went with Android.

Discussing with a another tech company a few weeks ago about a completely different mobile data project and they were struggling with dealing with Apple and the iPhone.

These aren't consumer problems ... they're platform issues.

Closing down the platform provides some benefit the consumer or enterprise customer (security) but at the same time puts the likes of Apple, Microsoft, and Google in too much control of what runs (and how it runs) on your system.

I don't think Apple lose from this because of their strong consumer position.

OTOH by copying Apple's mindset I think Microsoft in particular have made a major mistake with Windows Phone and Windows RT.

 

[219]

There are very few people these days who are not used to a computer.

And the real problem now is getting them to deal with wjhich ever type they are unfamiliar.

People unused to computers tend to fall into two categories : very old and very young . The young will pick things up easily , the old less so . My parents in law , both of whom celebrated their 80th birthdays within the last year rejected a windows XP laptop , citing it as too complicated ; I gave them an old Powerbook G4 , running 10.5.8 , and they can now surf the internet in Safari and use email - that's about all they do . My six year old son uses my Macs : he's had a G3 iMac , a G4 iMac and now a white 2007 MacBook which he uses almost daily to surf , email and play games ; his primary school have a classroom full of fairly new iMacs and his knowledge is a definite advantage .

Then you mum's been lucky. SWMBO has a 4S that is running tighter by the month on battery life.

My experience with MacBooks and iPhones is that Apple li-ion batterues are subject to the same physics as and chemistry as everybody elses.

Of course the batteries will use basically the same chemistry as everyone else's , but my mum's original 2G still works well , the 3GS my daughter has still works , my son's 3G and SWMBO's 4S , all handed down by me following upgrades are all good - only the power buttons on the 3G and 3GS have had to be replaced , common fault , at a cost of £25 each by a local place , none of the phones owe me anything .

Well some people look at iPhone or Lumia and Blackberry and think the same if they have Android.

I suspect the real attraction is that it is cheap and basically works.

A Moto G costs £115 from Tesco (I know this because I bought one in an a brazen defiance of SWMBO's wish that I got an iPhone).

If you're a windows user , fair enough , but for Apple users , you'd be mad to use any other phone .

I do imaging stuff at home and really the OS and hardware is irrelevant in itself - its just an enabler for the stuff I want to run. Both Mac and Windows run the various applications.

At work. Doing different stuff with different types of users?

Yes I think that's my experience of computers pretty much everywhere.

My experience is that apps like Photoshop or LR tend to run better on Macs ( we have one windows workstation supplied by the IT dept for video editing which is constantly crashing ) . We use Macs exclusively for Photo , Video and Graphics work , kept separate from the IT network . The IT machines are just for internet/intranet corporate email and office-y things , on the face of it much less demanding , you'd think , but they're constantly dogged with problems , and we've only recently moved from XP to windows 7 !

Reverse to using Macs at work and PCs at home. I suspect you;d be saying the same thing - in reverse.

I use Macs at home and Macs at work , for everything apart from corporate email .

I fell off my seat when I read this.

Macs are hugely more expensive these days. Worse most people I know who run them also end up Windows on them via Parallels or Fusion.

The G4 and G5 stuff is professionally unsupportable unless you are able to leave them in a timewarp. New apps and OS support in the last few years? Forget it. You're really comparung keeping an old Windows XP machine going - and that's probably more viable in terms of finding applications that will still run.

And OS X doesn't even support their older x86 systems. TBH that personally was a bit of a shocker given how closed Apple's world is compared with Linux and Windows. But then they're a hardware company and forced obsolescence is more money for them.

Look the Apple stuff isn't at all bad. But they get the benefit (as ddo the likes of Nikon and Canon in tghe camera market) of having a large group of customers who tend to see them in a particuylar light vs the alterantives.

I've used Macs quite happily at various times. But really if you need to run Office or Photoshop or Oracle or SQL Server or Sage or whatever - the OS is just a means to an end.

My G4's and G5's run fine on 10.5.8 with LR2 and CS3/4 , FCP 6 and sit on my network happily alongside newer machines running Mavericks , and able to access material from my network servers .

For travel I carry a £329 11.6" laptop with Lightroom and Elements - there isn't really an Apple solution to something that disposable - no tears if it gets damaged or lost. Apple aren't even in that market - which is a pity in some ways.

While I have bought some new mac kit , I mostly buy used , in the last year a 15" 2009 MBP for £250 and a 2008 8core MacPro bought for £400 , both can run the latest OS , run the current versions of Adobe CC and FCP7 ( don't like FCPX ; nor do I like Premiere ) ; my Powermac G5 cost me about the same back in 2004 and hasn't put a foot wrong , my three 17" Powerbooks similarly ( parents in law have the old 1GHz one and the two 1.73GHz ones were mine & SWMBO's respectively until the restrictions of 10.5.8 not keeping up with the latest Adobe software and camera RAW converters forced an upgrade ) the demands of HD video editing also prompted change , but the machines still do what they basically did 10 years ago and still do it well . I replaced the screen inverters in two of them - easy repairs . The white macBook cost me £120 on Gumtree , I used it for a while before handing it to my son and would rather have even that than any new windows laptop .

 

[219]

We also have windows and Macs in our enterprise which I also support.

Anyone that says "macs just work" (I have even seen that comment in this thread) well, they don't know what the hell they are talking about.

Mine do , as do ALL of those in our department . Couple of dozen machines .

Don't even talk to me about corporate iPhones.... what a mistake that was. Some people now on their 4th handset in a year.[/QUOTE]

Corporate phones , numpty users , they ALL get broken .

 

[219]

I agree, I look after around 70 handsets (phones) at work, all connected to a Server allowing us to package up and deliver applications & various other software, aswell as allowing us full remote control, screen mirroring and GPS tracking.

We initially purchased Apple devices which turned out to be a complete nightmare, buggy, difficult to configure and so many features lacking. We had no choice but to look into Android.

The handsets we use are relatively old & not too powerful (Samsung xCoverII's) but the level of control and options available, coupled with the reliability blow Apple devices out of the water.

Apple devices just work? Load of old tosh. Every major firmware update in the past 3 years has been crippled from the offset resulting with emergency fixes days after release.

Google themselves completely balls'd up their latest firmware (Lollipop) also.

Most people I have met have only seen a very basic, cheap Android phone and base their opinion on these, which is like comparing an A-Class to a 7-Series.

Edit: Apple devices just work do they? Story from less than 24hours ago:

Apple iOS 8.1.3 Release Will Again Anger Users - Forbes

And before I'm accused of being a fanboy, I have a long history of Apple products I've owned:
Power book 100
Macintosh LCII
PowerMac 7600/66
PowerMac 8200
iPod 3rdG
iPod Touch

Many IT depts seem to have a history of bu66ering up otherwise reliable kit : iPhones , Blackberries , Palm/Handspring Treos , even simple old Nokia basic handsets all of which work fine as they left the factory but don't respond well to 'corporate builds' being inflicted on them .

Think I may still have a PB100 up in the attic , probably back on something like OS 6 or 7 .... been through all the others , apart from pods .

 

[John]

The windows ones. What do I win?

First prize!

Take your pic of any of the 4 unreliable iMacs...

 

[Giantvanman]

First prize!

Take your pic of any of the 4 unreliable iMacs...

Not fussed. Whatever you choose. Do I collect or do you deliver (no chicken lamb or fish jokes, please).

 

[Dryce]

My G4's and G5's run fine on 10.5.8 with LR2 and CS3/4 , FCP 6 and sit on my network happily alongside newer machines running Mavericks , and able to access material from my network servers .

Keeping old hardware going isn't unusual. I recently retired a 12 year old machine from my home office. And I regularly come across older systems at clients' or even in our own server rooms (we have two 7 year old servers).

But typically (not always) they're running reasonably current software.

There are still a few old NT machines running out there - frozen in time a bit like your G4s and G5s.

The thing is even if you're running an old x86 Macbook you're stuck in a way that you're not if you have say an earlier Core Duo or Centrino based system. Apple don't support your hardware.

Chances are W7 and W8 will still work on the PC hardware. And that means you can upgrade your apps.

LR is a good example of software that people work with on a daily basis and sticking with LR2 isn't an option for those with newer cameras that need LR4 or LR5 for raw support.

Same goes with things like accounting / payroll software.

I'm against upgrading just for the purpose of having newest or latest so a big for keeping these systems active and productive - and managing to maintain the hardware too.

But that's not a practical or an attractive proposition for many users. I'd argue that older PC systems are potentially more productive. But even then the economics are such that its cheaper to buy new systems because they are cheap - that in itself makes it less attractive to keep older ones going.

 

[Sp!ke]

Many IT depts seem to have a history of bu66ering up otherwise reliable kit : iPhones , Blackberries , Palm/Handspring Treos , even simple old Nokia basic handsets all of which work fine as they left the factory but don't respond well to 'corporate builds' being inflicted on them .

You don't put corporate builds on any of the devices you mention so somewhat confused by this statement.

It sounds very much like for some reason you feel the need to point the finger of blame at IT. Were these personal experiences or hearsay?

 

[219]

You don't put corporate builds on any of the devices you mention so somewhat confused by this statement.

It sounds very much like for some reason you feel the need to point the finger of blame at IT. Were these personal experiences or hearsay?

Well , most of these devices work reasonably well as they come from the factory and set up by a normal , private user . My own Nokias , Treos and iPhones have always been trouble free because I don't let anyone mess with them .

Colleagues with all makes of handsets have not been so fortunate once IT have tried to 'configure' them to run with 'their' systems and have ended up with devices that were effectively crippled .

I rather think this is what KHz was alluding to above .

 

[Sp!ke]

The only device in your list that would have any non 1st party corporate management tools would be an iPhone.

You seem to be basing your opinion on speculation rather than actually establishing root cause and I'm not sure I quite get what point you are trying to make.

Are you trying to suggest that the experiences we (the IT people in this thread) have come across in the enterprise with Apple devices is down to our own incompetence rather than the down to the devices themselves? Forgive me but that's what it sounds like you are saying.

 

[219]

Unfortunately , that's what it looks like from my viewpoint .

A bit like buying vehicles , then trying to modify them to do something the manufacturer never intended them to do , then complaining about the vehicle when the modifications don't quite work out .

 

[219]

Keeping old hardware going isn't unusual. I recently retired a 12 year old machine from my home office. And I regularly come across older systems at clients' or even in our own server rooms (we have two 7 year old servers).

But typically (not always) they're running reasonably current software.

There are still a few old NT machines running out there - frozen in time a bit like your G4s and G5s.

The thing is even if you're running an old x86 Macbook you're stuck in a way that you're not if you have say an earlier Core Duo or Centrino based system. Apple don't support your hardware.

Chances are W7 and W8 will still work on the PC hardware. And that means you can upgrade your apps.

LR is a good example of software that people work with on a daily basis and sticking with LR2 isn't an option for those with newer cameras that need LR4 or LR5 for raw support.

Same goes with things like accounting / payroll software.

I'm against upgrading just for the purpose of having newest or latest so a big for keeping these systems active and productive - and managing to maintain the hardware too.

But that's not a practical or an attractive proposition for many users. I'd argue that older PC systems are potentially more productive. But even then the economics are such that its cheaper to buy new systems because they are cheap - that in itself makes it less attractive to keep older ones going.

The camera RAW issue was the main reason I upgraded last year . While LR2 still supports all my older cameras natively , and even can work around many newer ones using the DNG converter , it was becoming a pain .

We even have the same problem now with some of the early MacPro 1.1 machines at work which don't support RAW files from the latest Nikon cameras we have and can't be upgraded . They are still useful for accessing archives and many other purposes though .

 

[Sp!ke]

Unfortunately , that's what it looks like from my viewpoint .

A bit like buying vehicles , then trying to modify them to do something the manufacturer never intended them to do , then complaining about the vehicle when the modifications don't quite work out .

I actually find that quite insulting. Hilarious but insulting.

No corporate will *modify* an iphone. The only way to do that would be to jailbrake the handset and in every organisation I know, any jailbroken handset fails policy and gets kicked off the network.

What were talking about here are basic areas of functionality, things.. like say accepting a calendar invite - is that not a reasonable expectation to actually work without problem? Things like being able to map to a smb share and download files at a speed resembling that of the network without getting network errors.

These and many more are problems that are exhibited out of the box and Apple have been unable to fix for donkeys.Things that should work that are plaguing hundreds of thousands of people corporates and non corporates alike.