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Are modern cars too complicated?

I cant see the point of BAS anyway, surely in an emergency stop you satamp on the brakes as hard as you can anyway? cant see how the car can brake any harder as i can easily get the ABS working in anything i've tested it on and therefore it dont matter how much harder the brakes came on the car wouldnt stop any faster as the ABS would be releasing them to stop a skid.
 
I cant see the point of BAS anyway, surely in an emergency stop you satamp on the brakes as hard as you can anyway?

BAS basically does it even quicker. Before you get the pedal pressed it's applied full brakes.

I was quite dubious about it when I first heard about it in the late nineties.

I've only (to my knowledge) had it activate once and it reacted quicker than I did to an unexpected situation. My view is that most owners won't ever know it's there until it saves them.
 
ahh didnt realise it speeded up your stamp, thought it just increased the braking effort, i can see a use for that, not sure that i personally would like it, i still dont like ABS interfering.
 
Sorry, what I meant was BAS is an example. It's something else to go wrong, that's all.
 
BAs is a bit like a sprint booster but in reverse. it allows maximum application of the brakes without 100% pedeal pressure just in the same way a sprint booster enables a the throttle to be fully open without 100% accelerator pedal thats all.

Most accidents where an emergency stop is required occur because the driver didn't hit the brakes hard enough or apply 100% pressure to the brake for long enough.

Its always a good exercise to find a long straight and preferably wet country road and get upto a good speed (60 for the purposes of this thread as we never ever speed) and hit the brake as hard as you can and see just how long it takes to stop a car and how much pressure on the pedal is really required.

Diesel cars which used to be renowned for their longevity now seem to have a shorter shelf life due to expensive common rail and high pressure electronically managed injector systems. Yes the car is faster, quieter, more frugal but the electics can be a nightmare once the car is c.10yrs old. Petrol cars now seem a safer bet @ 10yrs old plus. However once electrical systems are licked (its early days) we'll have the best of both worlds.

Where moderns fall down is needless electrics, ipod this, automatic wipers/lights etc are all things to go wrong and add nothing to the car (IMHO) but if you never use them then if they go wrong, who cares.
 
It's not the electrical side of modern diesel injection systems lets them down, it's the sub standard mechanical parts they are attached to.
 
BAS is quite an old system - dating from the mid nineties (or possibly before).

The production launch of BAS was in 1997, it was introduced on the W140 s-class.

The point is that you start trusting BAS. If it fails, your mental adjustment puts you in the danger zone to make you a statistic. It is merely an example of something that can go wrong so don't get too hung up about BAS.

Dryce is quite right, it's nothing to do with trust. You do what you always do: you slam on the brakes. BAS will ensure you'll get what you want but perhaps not implement: maximum braking power immediately when you perform an emergency stop.

I cant see the point of BAS anyway, surely in an emergency stop you satamp on the brakes as hard as you can anyway?

As always what matters is the hard data, not assumption... BAS was developed because research showed that most drivers did not actually apply the maximum braking power quickly enough. If BAS detects an emergency stop because you suddenly slam on the brakes, a valve opens and immediately applies maximum braking power. And the effectiveness is also not a matter of opinion, but of data:

The Brake Assist (BAS) system, which Mercedes-Benz began offering in 1996 [sic] (the world’s first brand to do so), has also proved to be a very effective technology for preventing accidents. Following the introduction of BAS as standard equipment, the share of total accidents accounted for by rear-end collisions fell by eight percent for Mercedes vehicles, but remained nearly unchanged for all other brands. Brake Assist also led to a 13 percent reduction in the proportion of serious accidents involving pedestrians.

Note the reference to 1996, which contradicts Mercedes' own date of 1997 for the BAS introduction. My 1996 S500 was not available with BAS, so it seems the date is quoted inaccurately.
 
As always what matters is the hard data, not assumption... BAS was developed because research showed that most drivers did not actually apply the maximum braking power quickly enough. If BAS detects an emergency stop because you suddenly slam on the brakes, a valve opens and immediately applies maximum braking power. And the effectiveness is also not a matter of opinion, but of data:


If you'd carried on reading the posts you'd have seen i didnt understand how it worked, and once it was explained i agreed it was probably usefull.
 
Dryce is quite right, it's nothing to do with trust. You do what you always do: you slam on the brakes. BAS will ensure you'll get what you want but perhaps not implement: maximum braking power immediately when you perform an emergency stop.

It's irrelevant. If it breaks, there's a big bill. We're talking about modern cars being too complicated, not BAS.

As I said:
It is merely an example of something that can go wrong so don't get too hung up about BAS.
 
It's irrelevant. If it breaks, there's a big bill.

It's not irrelevant. It's an important safety feature and contributes, as data shows, to safer roads. So, it might come at a cost financially and in terms of additional complexity (although that should really not be overestimated when it comes to BAS: it's a solenoid valve and a bit of software in the end), but that has to be seen in the balance of what it achieves. So, it is anything but an irrelevant matter.

I have also not seen anyone provide any evidence of BAS problems causing huge bills for significant numbers of people. As I said, it's actually not a very complicated or expensive system at all...

We're talking about modern cars being too complicated, not BAS.

BAS was specifically mentioned in that discussion, so it was quite appropriate to pick that point up, especially since there seems to be so much misunderstanding of it :rolleyes:.
 
Back to the point of the thread.....

I hear what everyone is saying about how electronics etc can make a car quicker, more comfortable etc but now it seems you can buy a car stuffed with toys..............which will then start rusting before it's first MOT is due.

Throw away the toys and give me a good, solid, well built, rust-free car anyday!
 
Sorry, disagree. As most environmental damage it done during manufacture, cars which will be kept on the road longer (and my Disco is already 13 years old and going strong) are greener than newer stuff which will be thrown away after ten years or so

What ?
 
Sorry, what I meant was BAS is an example. It's something else to go wrong, that's all.

90% of accidents are caused by human error. I like the odds of BAS being more diligent than most people. A factor of 9 to 1 at least.
 

I don't know what you post means :confused:

With regard to cars, most environmental damage is done during the manufacturing process, not during the actual life of the car. 4x4s, which get a bad press, are actually greener than small, runabout, 50mpg cars over their whole lifespan because small cars are worthless after ten years or so and are scrapped and replaced, whereas large cars, like 4x4s (and W124s) keep going almost forever and so do not need another new car manufactured to place it.
 
I don't know what you post means :confused:

With regard to cars, most environmental damage is done during the manufacturing process, not during the actual life of the car. 4x4s, which get a bad press, are actually greener than small, runabout, 50mpg cars over their whole lifespan because small cars are worthless after ten years or so and are scrapped and replaced, whereas large cars, like 4x4s (and W124s) keep going almost forever and so do not need another new car manufactured to place it.

And all women are 36DD. There is a german law which requires cars to be 90% reclaimable in materials. No idea where your stats come from.
 

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