ASDA Synthetic oil

[Sp!ke]

I agree about motorcycle engines being a particularly tough environment but sont motorcycle engine oils have different friction modifiers than car oils due to the wet clutch design?

 

[iscaboy]

you may want to check out youtube for clips of what happens when you put motorcycle level (bhp/litre) engines into cars.. 200 mph smart car the runs the standing quarter mile faster than a ferrari for example...

here's a nice one, UK based, using a hayabusa lump in a mk1 golf

YouTube - Mk1 Golf Hayabusa Turbo!

 

[Ted]

IIRC my daughters cbr600 redlined at 13500!!

 

[iscaboy]

I agree about motorcycle engines being a particularly tough environment but sont motorcycle engine oils have different friction modifiers than car oils due to the wet clutch design?

Yes, but you're looking at it from the wrong end, car oil additives such as moly slip when used in a bike with a wet clutch (not all of them) bugger up the friction plates...

 

[iscaboy]

IIRC my daughters cbr600 redlined at 13500!!

Yes, and that is STANDARD, PRODUCTION, ROAD LEGAL kit.

and yet you are well on the way to F1 20k rpm stuff.

another production bike, the R6, revs to 16,100 redline.

the old 250cc i4 semi racer road legal bikes would pull 18.5k and that was years ago.

don't forget the Honda CBX, 22 years old now, and at full chat it would circulate the entire lube oil capacity every six seconds...

 

[Bellow]

Inherent means cannot be separated from.

Inherent, unseparable from a pure paraffinic base oil is solubility.

Inherent, unseperable from a synthetic base oil is poor solubility.

Inherent qualities that cannot be seperated.

You can no more seperate the insolubility from the synthetic oil than you can seperate the electrical conductivity from the copper. Or it would be done.

IIRC my daughters cbr600 redlined at 13500!!

Cylinder size 150cc, negligible mass, negligible area to draw combustion heat, and at 13500 rpm approx 40% of the available time to absorb heat compared to typical car engine.
That it makes its power from rpm as opposed to torque (read heat and pressure) further differentiates it from a car engine.

Yes, but you're looking at it from the wrong end, car oil additives such as moly slip when used in a bike with a wet clutch (not all of them) bugger up the friction plates...

Moly in an an engine oil (any oil), no thanks. It becomes both corrosive and abrasive with temperature.

I won't broach the subject of viscosity improvers which the bike transmission will shear to oblivion thus creating another difference with the car engine.

 

[iscaboy]

C5H12 (for example) is C5H12, irrespective of where it comes from, eg natural / fractional distillation or chemical synthesis.

This is a fundamental property of the material.

 

[Rovinghawk]

I use Asda semi synth in my beaten-up old 151k miles mondeo, where it runs fine. (I tend to change the oil every 6-8k miles.)
It WON'T be going in my SLK.

RH

 

[Bellow]

C5H12 (for example) is C5H12, irrespective of where it comes from, eg natural / fractional distillation or chemical synthesis.

This is a fundamental property of the material.

It is an accepted fact that synthetics struggle to hold onto their additive packages. Why won't you just accept the fact?
Equally, it is an accepted fact that mineral oils retain their additive packages more easily.

If the two are the same, why treat them differently?

Pure paraffinic. The word paraffinic is derived from the word affinity...
Don't you think there is a bit of a clue there?

If synthetic products are so good, why does everyone clamour to have leather seats? Why not have vinyl?
Why wear cotton when you could have polyester?
Why have wool when you could have nylon?
Why insist on walnut when you could have Formica?

Why is there no synthetic oil with API CJ classification?

 

[iscaboy]

It is an accepted fact that synthetics struggle to hold onto their additive packages. Why won't you just accept the fact?
Equally, it is an accepted fact that mineral oils retain their additive packages more easily.

Because it is not, as you claim, a FACT.

The FACTS are that motor oil, whether mineral or synthetic, is not one "thing", but a blend of literally hundreds of different "things" or discrete chemical compounds.

The FACTS are that due to various factors involving chemical process engineering and production costs, when you start from mineral and when you start from synthetic, neither one of you actually hits the target 100% perfectly, both make close and acceptable approximations, and both miss, and both miss in slightly different ways, so the misses are also not the same as each other.

The FACTS are that you could, if you wished and had the time and money, make any mineral oil absolutely identical to a given synthetic, and vice versa, but you would be talking inkjet printer ink costs.

Your leather / plastic argument is specious, these are two utterly different compounds, not even remotely similar chemically.

I note with interest that NOBODY has picked up on the most important point, which I stated earlier, which is that the quality and type of filter used is far more important than the quality and type of oil used, provided all the above are within spec.

Edit
To talk about "mineral" and "synthetic" in the terms that people are, is to talk about mineral water vs rain water, or reverse osmosis vs distillation, and claim that they are both utterly different products, with different solubility, ph, hardness, etc etc etc.

H2O is H2O.

 

[renault12ts]

What filters do you use?

 

[Bellow]

I note with interest that NOBODY has picked up on the most important point, which I stated earlier, which is that the quality and type of filter used is far more important than the quality and type of oil used, provided all the above are within spec.
.

Possibly because the thread as started by the OP was a query regarding oil not filters?

What filters do you use?

But seeing as the question is there... OEM from MB for me.

But where are all these particles that need filtering coming from?

 

[iscaboy]

What filters do you use?

Depends on the vehicle, OEM is a minimum, never anything with a paper based element, if available a proper microglass filter.

For my new to me W124 this will mean OEM from MB, definitely not Bosch generic or anything from GSF.

Oil will be my usual trade 25 litre tubs of 15W40.

 

[iscaboy]

But where are all these particles that need filtering coming from?

1. combustion by-products
2. mechanical wear
3. condensate
4. contaminants introduced when the cam cover cap is off and via wiping the dipstick and when introducing new oil / dirty hands etc.

 

[nick mercedes]

I leave the oil making to the ones with experience....

Hence why I (should) own a mercedes. Been in the business for years, know what they're doing, and worth paying the premium for! (Usually!)

Most just bang in whatever 10-40w semi synth is on offer at the time.

Quantum in 55 gallon drums or bulk lube in tanks seem to be favorite.

 

[NormanC]

Pure paraffinic. The word paraffinic is derived from the word affinity...
Don't you think there is a bit of a clue there?

Sorry to disagree but the word paraffinic is derived from the word paraffin and means like a paraffin.

C(5)H(12) is a paraffin which is defined as an organic compound with the formula C(n)H(2n+2).

The word paraffin is derived from the Latin parum (= barely) + affinis with the meaning here of "lacking affinity".

 

[iscaboy]

I used "liquid paraffin" which is a clear mineral oil for some immersed liquid cooled computer experiments some years ago.

Baby oil is based on this stuff, but it ain't pure.

The best place to get pure was from Mole Valley Farmers in 5l jugs, sold as a horse laxative.

I mention this as you and I can drink "liquid paraffin" with no ill effects (apart from the runs) despite the fact that it is a mineral oil and not a vegetable oil, which if you remember is where the spanish contaminated cooking oil scandal came from.

 

[flango]

This is good you have got onto my specialist subjects, my first degree is Minerals Engineering the second Chemical Engineering and I have been in the Oil & Minerals business 30 years and never seen so many incorrect statements being bandied about.

If it is Hydrocarbon based its mineral Oil - FACT ! hydrocarbons can NEVER be synthetic they can be structurally altered but not synthetically.

Synthetics? The clues in the title they are synthesized chemical molecules of a particular structured order to provide specific properties. Mineral oils have a random molecular structure.

Synthetics do not struggle to hold on to their additive packages at all, the additive packages are specifically tailored chemistry designed to compliment the base synthetic oil, Mineral oils and their additives degrade far faster than synthetics.

There is no way you can take a mineral oil and produce a synthetic the chemistry is totally differnet thats like saying you can turn gold into lead complete rubbish. You could make the mineral oil have the same properties as a synthetic thats something toally different but it would still be a mineral oil and you just wouldn't do it as its cheaper to produce a synthetic.

The diamond analagy is a good one industrial diamonds (Synthetic) are worth far less than natural occuring diamonds.

If the question is which is best mineral oil or synthetic oil then it's horses for courses, my race cars run fully PAO synthetics and if we are naming names then I believe Fuchs is best, never had an engine failure in a race car run on this but also run OMP pro oil filters. My road cars run on Semi Syn and OMP professional Oil filters but I do drop the oil every 3K on the Mb and every 6k on the Volvo

The oil filter point is a very good one a very expensive oil can be totally useless in combination with a cheap filter.

 

[iscaboy]

If it is Hydrocarbon based its mineral Oil - FACT ! hydrocarbons can NEVER be synthetic they can be structurally altered but not synthetically.

Mobil (and others) disagree with you.

Specifically James A Brennan, one of their (Mobil) top R&D men, and this was back in 1980...

and this really *is/was* his specialist subject, he was the Elvis of the field in his day... of course things have moved on, a lot, since then.


http://dissertations.ub.rug.nl/FILES/faculties/science/1999/g.p.van.der.la an/titlecon.pdf

 

[nick mercedes]

he was the Elvis of the field in his day...

A big fat man who ate too many burgers and died while having a poo?