Beware - Watch out for this one!!

[fredfloggle]

Interesting....I wonder if it would be possible to take an action against the Ins Co who supplied the MIB with the incorrect data upon which the police acted. This could cover, for example, release fees, fines, etc and perhaps, depending on the circumstances, consequential loss and inconvenience etc. I suspect that would concentrate a few minds!!

How on earth can the MID system work in a case where a driver is using a vehicle under their own insurance policy - I can claim that I can drive any vehicle I get in because of the wording of my policy .

What happened to the HORT2 form and time to produce ? I also cannot understand why the lady in question didn't explain that she held her own policy , give the registration number of her own vehicle , and surely that would be the end of it ?

To the immense credit of North Wales police, when they discovered the error, they arranged for Mrs. Parry's endorsement and penalty to be cancelled and for Mrs. Smith's £105 to be returned to her. To be fair to North Wales police, they went beyond the call of duty and presented her with a large bouquet of flowers.

This piece of arrogance puts the icing on the cake .

 

[recycled]

Interesting....I wonder if it would be possible to take an action against the Ins Co who supplied the MIB with the incorrect data upon which the police acted. This could cover, for example, release fees, fines, etc and perhaps, depending on the circumstances, consequential loss and inconvenience etc. I suspect that would concentrate a few minds!!

yes you can.
easiest way is to try and tax your car on the phone or on line. it will san hrough the database to check if you ae on MIB. i t told me i was not on and that was when i started carrying my certificate around with me. Took my insurance 2 weeks to sort out.
it only needs one clerk to enter a wrong no plate and you are in serious trouble.

 

[fredfloggle]

yes you can.
easiest way is to try and tax your car on the phone or on line. it will san hrough the database to check if you ae on MIB. i t told me i was not on and that was when i started carrying my certificate around with me. Took my insurance 2 weeks to sort out.
it only needs one clerk to enter a wrong no plate and you are in serious trouble.

this is what is dangerous ...

http://www.askmid.com/askmid.aspx

I've just checked the AMG in EVDOK's post about "treat your car.." and the MID says it is uninsured

By allowing someone to drive this vehicle, the driver is at risk of being STOPPED by the police and having their vehicle impounded, and possibly DISPOSED OF, if proof of insurance cannot be provided.

Scare mongering at it's worst.

What many people don't realise is that many company vehicles don't automatically get added to the database .

And worse , look at this

I was told if a person came with a producer, and failed to present even a single document, you cant let them go away and fetch it from home. They have failed to produce, the end. Report and forget. Not your problem. Dont let anyone tell you who to report or not, would they like it if you told them !

So, If I turn up the next day at a police station with a "producer" and forget to bring the counterpart license , some little hitler will report me for failing to produce even though I have further days to go back and get it, despite the fact the he can tell if you have a license in two minutes anyway ?
Is the HORT2 now redundant seeing that all the police rely on a database that isn't in their ownership or control ?

 

[recycled]

some like to be difficult. after one got me in the the back of his vectra, he checked all my details on his little screen and on the phone, then he gave me a producer.
i said everything has just been confirmed by your head office, why do i need to produce again?
He also got reported by me.

 

[robert.saunders]

i said everything has just been confirmed by your head office, why do i need to produce again?
He also got reported by me.

Perhaps he didn't like you much

 

[recycled]

you don't say
well i guess. After all i was driving a proper car not a vectra

 

[Swiss Toni]

So, If I turn up the next day at a police station with a "producer" and forget to bring the counterpart license , some little hitler will report me for failing to produce even though I have further days to go back and get it, despite the fact the he can tell if you have a license in two minutes anyway ?
Is the HORT2 now redundant seeing that all the police rely on a database that isn't in their ownership or control ?

You don't understand the system.

When, at the time you are stopped, you fail to produce the documents as required, THAT is when you commit the offence (not later and certainly not 7 days later).

The Police (nice people, accepting that everyone is not as perfect as them ) give you 7 days in which to dust off your licence, find the MOT cert and bring in your proof of insurance (and that'll be the Certificate, not the schedule, please ). IF you can manage this challenge (many don't) then there is no further action taken against you, though by fact, you committed the offence when you failed to produce by the side of the road.

Does this mean you should always carry your documents?

No, that's why they have the 7 day system above.

Is your fear of "little Hitler" misplaced?

Probably not. But it tells us all more about your psyche than anything else


Is the database perfect?

No.

Do the Cops know that?

Yes.

Do they make mistakes?

Yes (unless they are CarrotChompers)

 

[glojo]

Down here they are now experimenting with hand-held finger print machines, so if they think your telling whoopsies about your name, they can request you have your finger prints scanned.

John

 

[Sp!ke]

Down here they are now experimenting with hand-held finger print machines, so if they think your telling whoopsies about your name, they can request you have your finger prints scanned.

John

Really? What forcibly and without charge? What steps are taken place to ensure the deletion of this biometric data once taken should no charges be brought?

I really don't like the sound of this, my immediate thoughts (without knowing the full facts of course) are that this system could be massively abused and exploited.

 

[glojo]

I have no idea of the full facts, it was a local news feature and the equipment was being used to establish the identity of someone a patrol officer suspected was wanted and perhaps giving false details. I personally love this modern technology and if it helps tracing real criminals then so be it.

We all moan about being detained\harrassed or wanting more police on the streets and what is easier for both the public and the police.

1. Arrest someone and take them to an authorised Police Station which might take hours?

Or

Having the prints checked on the streets which might only take 5 minutes?

Remember not everywhere is like our big cities. Get arrested on Dartmoor and you will be taken to Plymouth, yes you will be taken to jail by car, but there is no public transport to take you back from whence you came, and I dread to think how much a taxi fare would be.

John

 

[recycled]

. I personally love this modern technology and if it helps tracing real criminals then so be it.

John

You may like it but i do not.
My DNA and biometrics on a police database to get sold to big businesses and loan sharks, bombarding me with credit card and loan requests and the government saying sorry we lost the DNA on four discs

 

[fredfloggle]

You don't understand the system.

When, at the time you are stopped, you fail to produce the documents as required, THAT is when you commit the offence (not later and certainly not 7 days later). Whilst the offense IS committed at the time of stop (if you don't have the necessaries)- if you can't present your docs at that time , there is no offence committed , and if you want to be smart and waste time then you go to Court with all the papers , and get nicked for failing to produce, nothing else , and unless the CPS want to make an example out of you or intend to waste some of your time, then if the police know you have insurance, MOT and a DL, then I doubt they will go with it (your life of course will be hell after that) - the only time they may encourage a production in Court is if they doubt the legality of a document , then a charge of Perverting the Course of Justice will be a walk in the park .


The Police (nice people, accepting that everyone is not as perfect as them ) give you 7 days in which to dust off your licence, find the MOT cert and bring in your proof of insurance (and that'll be the Certificate, not the schedule, please ). IF you can manage this challenge (many don't) then there is no further action taken against you, though by fact, you committed the offence when you failed to produce by the side of the road.No you didn't , unless you cannot produce in the timescale OR the police officer can prove AT THE TIME OF STOP that you had no MOT, disqual, Insurance - and prove is just that.

Does this mean you should always carry your documents?

No, that's why they have the 7 day system above.

Is your fear of "little Hitler" misplaced?

Probably not. But it tells us all more about your psyche than anything else

He He He . Ask the lady whose car was towed about "psyche"


Is the database perfect?

No.

Do the Cops know that?

Yes.

Do they make mistakes?

Yes (unless they are CarrotChompers)

I think you will find that you made a complete mess of that - thankfully you are not a police officer -

 

[fredfloggle]

I have no idea of the full facts, it was a local news feature and the equipment was being used to establish the identity of someone a patrol officer suspected was wanted and perhaps giving false details. I personally love this modern technology and if it helps tracing real criminals then so be it.

We all moan about being detained\harrassed or wanting more police on the streets and what is easier for both the public and the police.

1. Arrest someone and take them to an authorised Police Station which might take hours?

Or

Having the prints checked on the streets which might only take 5 minutes?

Remember not everywhere is like our big cities. Get arrested on Dartmoor and you will be taken to Plymouth, yes you will be taken to jail by car, but there is no public transport to take you back from whence you came, and I dread to think how much a taxi fare would be.

John

So do I , but not the expense of my liberty/freedom .

If you don't lie about your ID then you won't get into trouble - seems pretty simple to me.

All the time I hear about my liberties being diminished to make life "better" for me, yet all I see is a more violent and lawless society.

Does it worry me? Well not that much, I have an "escape route" and I have no dealings with Police so don't get into a situation where I am required to start handing out bits of DNA to prove who I am .
If I could actually see things getting safer then I might consider it reasonable , but in spite of advances in technology I don't see a safer society emerging - things seems to be getting worse.

 

[Ade B]

hasn't it gone since the dawn of time - more technology = less manpower.

It worries me that idea of 'managed data' mixing with 'policy' and 'targets' and above all 'budgets'

Anyone seen Gattica?

Ade

 

[GRAV888]

So, If I turn up the next day at a police station with a "producer" and forget to bring the counterpart license , some little hitler will report me for failing to produce even though I have further days to go back and get it, despite the fact the he can tell if you have a license in two minutes anyway ?
Is the HORT2 now redundant seeing that all the police rely on a database that isn't in their ownership or control ?

1) It's a HORT1 you get issued with (HORT2 gets filled in at the police station)
2) Even the police are arguing amongst themselves

 

[GRAV888]

this is what is dangerous ...

http://www.askmid.com/askmid.aspx

I've just checked the AMG in EVDOK's post about "treat your car.." and the MID says it is uninsured

Didn't have you down as a law breaker Fred:

Confirm that this vehicle belongs to you
I confirm that the vehicle detailed above is registered, owned or insured by either my employer or myself and is regularly driven by me. I understand it is an offence to wrongfully obtain information of this nature without reasonable cause and if I fail to provide true reasons for acquiring information I may be committing an offence of unlawfully obtaining data contrary to section 55 of the Data Protection Act 1988. I declare that the information provided will not be used for any purposes unrelated to this enquiry.

 

[glojo]

You may like it but i do not.
My DNA and biometrics on a police database to get sold to big businesses and loan sharks, bombarding me with credit card and loan requests and the government saying sorry we lost the DNA on four discs

Why beyond my field of knowledge but I thought the police were not allowed to give out this information? There have been quite a few examples of police officers trying to be helpful and giving out the details of car owners to friends. This action has cost them their jobs, loss of pensions etc.

In recent months we have all heard about evil rapists being caught, just because the police have their DNA on file, caught drink driving, and ended up being charged for the rape of a six year old child.

We always here about this selling off of information and the infringements of our rights but surely this is all left wing civil liberties waffle?

Put me in charge of the Home Office and I would be tough on crime and tough on the causes.

Regards
John

 

[fredfloggle]

1) It's a HORT1 you get issued with (HORT2 gets filled in at the police station)
2) Even the police are arguing amongst themselves

Take a read of that website and weep at some of it - OK possibly the comments about handcuffing a deaf guy was denying him free speech were tongue in cheek , but the rest of it.....?

Been a long time since I had one of those (and I had plenty when I used to drive "The Flying Turd") and it will be even longer before I have another - I hope.

 

[fredfloggle]

Didn't have you down as a law breaker Fred:

Don't kid yourself - I did 33mph last night.

Dangerous site isn't it ? - OK they may do a bit of IP address logging but a proxy gets around that , and it isn't even banned to non-UK IP's.

What the flaming hell do they think people will do?

I found out in the first 5 minutes that they guy who nearly flattened me at South Mimms services and was trying to fill his car up with Ribena wasn't on the database -

 

[fredfloggle]

Why beyond my field of knowledge but I thought the police were not allowed to give out this information? There have been quite a few examples of police officers trying to be helpful and giving out the details of car owners to friends. This action has cost them their jobs, loss of pensions etc.

In recent months we have all heard about evil rapists being caught, just because the police have their DNA on file, caught drink driving, and ended up being charged for the rape of a six year old child.

We always here about this selling off of information and the infringements of our rights but surely this is all left wing civil liberties waffle?

Put me in charge of the Home Office and I would be tough on crime and tough on the causes.

Regards
John

I would put you in charge John - I think you're wonderful.

Everything in good order though surely? next thing a traffic warden will have the power to fingerprint anyone who argues about a ticket .

OK, let's go this way , but let us take it across the boards , no more jibbing and apologizing for getting tough - though I think it's too late, and in fact I'm frightened for my children .