Bristol diesel ban

[Dryce]

If you use public charge points in Scotland, they are free at point of use .
My pal charges his Tesla either in the work car park or in the public car park across the road from his house rather than use his own electricity .

Is it fair that somebody who can afford an expensive car gets subsidised energy while a family with more limited means may run an older car and get charged higher VED, and both duty and VAT on fuel?

 

[Dryce]

I do around 1000-2000 miles a week for work (not in a car btw) and regularly stop at Keele services, i have yet to witness a queue for either the superchargers or the ecotricity chargers

Any time I pass motorway service stations there are always free EV charging points. But then I see very few EVs on the motorways outwith urban areas.

I would suggest that available charging stations at motorway service startions says more about the relatively low EV uptake levels and the limited journey patterns of EV uptakers than the reality of queues for chargers.

If uptake levels increase and journey patterns change then what we have at service stations will be insufficient by at least an order of magnitude.

 

[219]

Is it fair that somebody who can afford an expensive car gets subsidised energy while a family with more limited means may run an older car and get charged higher VED, and both duty and VAT on fuel?

I know it is a Scottish Government incentive to get people to switch to Electric . Same with the six years interest free finance to buy one , the free home charge point installation and , in some places , free parking for EVs . In conjunction with the move towards renewable and cleaner electricity generation , it should , in time , result in a cleaner environment . That's the reasoning behind it at least .

I don't imagine it will last forever .

Oh , BTW , said friend is now retired , chopped in his JAAG against this 'inventory model' Tesla , which was heavily discounted from the 60K or whatever to 30-odds , less his trade in and he didn't have a lot to spread across the 6 years finance period . Factor in no road tax , zero fuel costs and it was , as he said , a no brainer - and the cheapest car he could get to run as a pensioner .

 

[Deleted member 149005]

Except a Tesla will be worth the square root of bugger all in 6 years...

 

[AMGeed]

^ And hope he doesn't need a battery replaced at over £7k
2018 Tesla Model 3 Battery Pack High Voltage Long Range pack 400VDC 75KWH 11k Mi | eBay

 

[Benzmanc]

I know it is a Scottish Government incentive to get people to switch to Electric . Same with the six years interest free finance to buy one , the free home charge point installation and , in some places , free parking for EVs . In conjunction with the move towards renewable and cleaner electricity generation , it should , in time , result in a cleaner environment . That's the reasoning behind it at least .

I don't imagine it will last forever .

Oh , BTW , said friend is now retired , chopped in his JAAG against this 'inventory model' Tesla , which was heavily discounted from the 60K or whatever to 30-odds , less his trade in and he didn't have a lot to spread across the 6 years finance period . Factor in no road tax , zero fuel costs and it was , as he said , a no brainer - and the cheapest car he could get to run as a pensioner .

Obviously a used Model S anything else and he's telling fibs, an inventory car is just Tesla speak for what we've got on the forecourt which was probably a trade-in. Tesla don't discount anything nor do they spend any money on advertising. Model 3 inventory cars are currently going for slightly above list due to the demand which makes the base model around £40k. Performance lists at £52k but if you want one now it's £54k, still not bad for a car that will accelerate the same as a 599

 

[Benzmanc]

Except a Tesla will be worth the square root of bugger all in 6 years...

How do you come to that conclusion?? EV's are actually increasing in price. Cheapest Tesla in Autotrader is £30k for a 2014 car

 

[markjay]

Why would Teslas not fair well on the second hand market?

The build quality may be poor but the technology is pretty reliable.

 

[219]

Except a Tesla will be worth the square root of bugger all in 6 years...

Indeed , but as a retiree who does a few thousand miles a year and is already in his late 60s , I doubt that resale value is uppermost in his mind .

Having passengered in it , the bland plastic interior and iPad dashboard puts me off ; I will put up with whatever my W140 costs me to run - in my own mind it is a much nicer place to be .

But then I paid the square root of bugger all ( £500 ) for the W140 , so I can shrug it off in a few years if a big bill comes home .

In all fairness I've just spent shy of a grand on replacing the braking system with all genuine ATE components , front to back , including new pipes made up by myself , flexible hoses , and new rear callipers , and within the next 3 months will put a set of decent new tyres on it , but safety first and these are things I won't cut corners on .

 

[219]

How do you come to that conclusion?? EV's are actually increasing in price. Cheapest Tesla in Autotrader is £30k for a 2014 car

Stevie has had his at least a couple of years , and his JAAG was at most a couple of years old , so I think he'd have got a decent trade in ? I suspect he'd be financing around £20K interest free over 6 years . Not a huge outlay . Given he'll have a decent pension .

 

[219]

Obviously a used Model S anything else and he's telling fibs, an inventory car is just Tesla speak for what we've got on the forecourt which was probably a trade-in. Tesla don't discount anything nor do they spend any money on advertising. Model 3 inventory cars are currently going for slightly above list due to the demand which makes the base model around £40k. Performance lists at £52k but if you want one now it's £54k, still not bad for a car that will accelerate the same as a 599

It was an ex demonstrator , can't remember exact price but was in the mid/high £30Ks . I didn't question him too hard as it was just works canteen chit chat when he got it , just before he retired .

 

[Dryce]

I know it is a Scottish Government incentive to get people to switch to Electric . Same with the six years interest free finance to buy one , the free home charge point installation and , in some places , free parking for EVs . In conjunction with the move towards renewable and cleaner electricity generation , it should , in time , result in a cleaner environment . That's the reasoning behind it at least .

My concern is that the incentive actually disproportionately benefits people who are better off and also disincentivuses manfuacturers for selling EVs thast are low cost.

So if it were me I'd offer an EV subsidy only to vehicles under some threshold - eg. £25K with some additional Ts & Cs to make sre manfacturers didn't offer a cheaper vehcle with a monthly battery charge to get aound this.

My target would be to get people who use cars on the school run and urban commuting into EVs as soon as possible.

I'd also look at encouraging hybrids with extended EV only range that could be switched to EV mode in urban areas if that could be enforced in some way.

I don't imagine it will last forever .

No.

By the time the majority might benefit then the benefit will be removed.

This is why I think the current incentives are well intended but morally dubious.

 

[Benzmanc]

Why would Teslas not fair well on the second hand market?

The build quality may be poor but the technology is pretty reliable.

I agree, the build quality is getting better but they have only been making cars for a few years compared to other manufacturers

 

[219]

My concern is that the incentive actually disproportionately benefits people who are better off and also disincentivuses manfuacturers for selling EVs thast are low cost.

So if it were me I'd offer an EV subsidy only to vehicles under some threshold - eg. £25K with some additional Ts & Cs to make sre manfacturers didn't offer a cheaper vehcle with a monthly battery charge to get aound this.

My target would be to get people who use cars on the school run and urban commuting into EVs as soon as possible.

I'd also look at encouraging hybrids with extended EV only range that could be switched to EV mode in urban areas if that could be enforced in some way.




No.

By the time the majority might benefit then the benefit will be removed.

This is why I think the current incentives are well intended but morally dubious.

No argument from me . It also rankles that the benefits are only available to purchasers of new cars over a certain threshold - look to buy a used EV and you don't qualify .

 

[219]

I agree, the build quality is getting better but they have only been making cars for a few years compared to other manufacturers

You could say that of most manufacturers compared to mercedes-benz .

 

[Deleted member 149005]

How do you come to that conclusion?? EV's are actually increasing in price. Cheapest Tesla in Autotrader is £30k for a 2014 car

It’s already lost c50% if it’s value while sitting on the forecourt.


Cheap, flimsy interiors, tech that is moving on so fast it’s out of date when you drive it off the forecourt, Tesla’s financial instability, (probably won’t be able to afford to fund free recharges on the higher spec models))...

Several colleagues at work run them and none have said they’d put their own money into one.

 

[markjay]

We have one at work (19 reg).

We inspected it on delivery... paint overrun and other defects, mismatched panels, trim issues... they took it back twice, resprayed some panels and fixed most of the issues though some remain. Ultimately it's a lease car.

But the technology is reliable and works brilliantly well (apart from range, which is still an issue).

My own conclusion is that Tesla invested in R&D and as result the cost per unit is just to high. If they also added build quality and attention to detail the cost of each car would have been in supercar category and they wouldn't be able to shift them. Even so with a price tag of over £100k for some of their cars it is not clear if they are actually making money on them.

So it's just unrealistic to expect to be able to afford a technologically advanced car that is also in the same bracket as the S-Class/7-Series/A8 when it comes to quality.

 

[grober]

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[markjay]

Another point to consider is that Tesla use an existing floorpan and upgrade the moduls on it.

On one side this is great news, because older cars can be upgraded (unlike Mercedes, where you need to change the car if you want newer features).

But on the other hand they will be extending the life of their floorpan beyond what is customary in the automotive industry (~7 years), so it will be interesting to see how Tesla manages the transition to the next generation floor plan when the times come to retire the current one (and who they will decide to purchase it from - MB again?).

 

[C240Sport97]

Teslas are just so bland and anonymous .. they are like washing machines you find fitted in new homes, you have to take it as it is