Bristol diesel ban

[grober]

It would appear HONDA are hedging their bets somewhat? Don't think the hydrogen fuel cell version has made it to the UK yet- possibly after the poor uptake of their last hybrid models?

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ps if looking for a hydrogen powered vehicle it would appear that you must look to the far east ---Toyota, Honda, Hyundai at present. I'm sure that EUROPEAN manufacturers have built prototypes or limited runs but never gone much further than that. In much the same way they chose diesel as the way to reduce CO2 emissions over petrol hybrids they have gone with BEVS rather than HFCEVS.

 

[grober]

Mercedes make one- you just can't buy it just yet- I expect the price will be eye watering or lease only
Mercedes-Benz F-CELL: Behind the scenes of fuel cell mobility.

 

[markjay]

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Is this the new Betamax-vs-VHS?

 

[Benzmanc]

To those that keep going on about Tesla build quality i say this, they've only been building cars for 10 years so lets give them a chance eh, because MB have been building for over 100 years and they never have any issues do they??

Fading Red Paint
Rust
Balancer Shafts
Swirl flap motors
Diesel Timing Gear
Black death
failing O2 sensors

Need I go on

MB Warranty 3 years
Tesla Warranty 4 years main car - 8 years battery and drivetrain

 

[markjay]

To those that keep going on about Tesla build quality i say this, they've only been building cars for 10 years so lets give them a chance eh, because MB have been building for over 100 years and they never have any issues do they??

Fading Red Paint
Rust
Balancer Shafts
Swirl flap motors
Diesel Timing Gear
Black death
failing O2 sensors

Need I go on

MB Warranty 3 years
Tesla Warranty 4 years main car - 8 years battery and drivetrain

I think that you have never seen a new Tesla delivered....

Honestly, I wouldn't have accepted the paint defects and misaligned panels (and rear bumper) if my car came back like that from the body shop following a repair.....

Said that people buy the Tesla because it's brimming with technology, and you can't fault it on that front.

I guess that Tesla buyers aren't too bothered about some paint overruns or wonky trim bits when you get a car that is light years ahead of the competitionin every other respect.

 

[grober]

Is this the new Betamax-vs-VHS?

Interesting question. Technologically speaking the betamax system, altho more mechanically complex, was reckoned to be slightly better than VHS picture quality wise BUT the issue that settled the matter was not the technology. In a similar manner to the 8 track stereo cartridge v cassette tape in-car entertainment battle what settled it was the the availability/choice of pre-recorded material to purchase. In a similar manner it might be argued what might settle the BEV v HFCEV battle will be refuelling infrastructure!!!!!!!!!!!!
The other thing that struck me in May's video was the 700bar HFCEV refuelling pressure! If true ??? that's 10,000psi- planet Saturn tropospheric territory! On a practical level just how long would a re-useable pump/dispenser car tank junction retain such a demanding leak free pressure integrity without expensive renewal is anybodies guess?
And for anyone straying down video format memory lane here's a few more also-rans.

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[Petrol Pete]

True Scotsman....

That will change when they become the 'Republic of Scotland' if Krankie gets her way.

 

[markjay]

Interesting question. Technologically speaking the betamax system, altho more mechanically complex, was reckoned to be slightly better than VHS picture quality wise BUT the issue that settled the matter was not the technology. In a similar manner to the 8 track stereo cartridge v cassette tape in-car entertainment battle what settled it was the the availability/choice of pre-recorded material to purchase. In a similar manner it might be argued what might settle the BEV v HFCEV battle will be refuelling infrastructure!!!!!!!!!!!!
The other thing that struck me in May's video was the 700bar HFCEV refuelling pressure! If true ??? that's 10,000psi- planet Saturn tropospheric territory! On a practical level just how long would a re-useable pump/dispenser car tank junction retain such a demanding leak free pressure integrity without expensive renewal is anybodies guess?
And for anyone straying down video format memory lane here's a few more also-rans.

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

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It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

Ultimately, it's the infrastructure that will win the race.

But the willingness of corporates to invest in charging infrastructure and gas refueling infrastructure will depend on consumers' take-up of the respective technologies.

 

[grober]

It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

Ultimately, it's the infrastructure that will win the race.

But the willingness of corporates to invest in charging infrastructure and gas refueling infrastructure will depend on consumers' take-up of the respective technologies.

In that respect EV will win. 1 on existing infrastructure 2. Due to the multi- functional/ scaleability nature of electrical power making it a safer investment for alternative platform supply if EV was to fail------ hydrogen powered mobile phone anyone?

 

[Deleted member 6183]

It looks like EV is winning the race for new technology which sounds reasonable, the tech is advancing rapidly and it seems good for noise and air pollution at point of use which has to be a good thing (and they are rapid)!

There's been some jibber jabber about hydrogen and so on but this tech is very much in it's infancy in vehicle use.

So, would it not be a good idea to ramp up EV advances and also develop cleaner means of producing the electricity - we already have wind, tide, nuclear and coal - is a hydrogen power station a possibility?

 

[markjay]

One thing to note, is that it would be easier for busses and lorries to be HFC-powered than it is for private cars, because the refuelling of HGVs and commercial LGVs can be done in the company's depots and according to a pre-scheduled plan, thus eliminating the need for a nationwide publicly-accessible refueling infrastructure.

 

[GeeJayW]

An issue with using hydrogen as a fuel is how the hydrogen is sourced. One method is to get it from crude oil, which IMHO is properly nuts.

 

[190]

There are already a hydrogen powered buses and even the odd car just to prove it's possible. Particularly for the cars it's still a long way off being able to compete on price both in terms of the cars manufacturing cost and the fuel cost. Problem being that while the universe is made of the stuff, unlike natural gas we don't have any reserves of hydrogen on this planet. We have to produce it which consumes energy. So yes we could run a power station on Hydrogen as long as we had another power station to produce the Hydrogen in the first place.

 

[markjay]

An issue with using hydrogen as a fuel is how the hydrogen is sourced. One method is to get it from crude oil, which IMHO is properly nuts.

That depends... if it's a byproduct of crude oil refining, then it actually makes sense. But I don't know the facts.

 

[grober]

Most commercial hydrogen is produced by electrolysis. Gaseous molecular hydrogen is an expression of a higher energy state material derived from the energy that produced the electricity in the first place. Ultimately its all down to nuclear fusion in the sun now or millions of years ago. NOW if we could reproduce that process on a smaller scale on earth that would cut out a lot of intermediate steps-----?

 

[GeeJayW]

Most commercial hydrogen is produced by electrolysis. Gaseous molecular hydrogen is an expression of a higher energy state material derived from the energy that produced the electricity in the first place. Ultimately its all down to nuclear fusion in the sun now or millions of years ago. NOW if we could reproduce that process on a smaller scale on earth that would cut out a lot of intermediate steps-----?

We did a pilot project in Iceland using geothermal energy derived hydrogen. Solar hydrolysis is another interesting source.

 

[Benzmanc]

Norway: Explosion at hydrogen filling station - electrive.com

 

[grober]

Hydrogen fueling equipment – Nel Hydrogen
70MPa SPEC would appear to confirm JM's filling pressure figure. Norway also may explain the origins of the fuel filler freezing problem?

 

[Benzmanc]

I think that you have never seen a new Tesla delivered....

Honestly, I wouldn't have accepted the paint defects and misaligned panels (and rear bumper) if my car came back like that from the body shop following a repair.....

Said that people buy the Tesla because it's brimming with technology, and you can't fault it on that front.

I guess that Tesla buyers aren't too bothered about some paint overruns or wonky trim bits when you get a car that is light years ahead of the competitionin every other respect.

Yes, i'd rather have all the tech work and put up with some dodgy paint, as it seems with companies like Land Rover it's the other way around, no point looking pretty on the back of a recovery truck

Tesla ranks among UK's most reliable carmakers in veteran motoring magazine's survey

 

[Dryce]

It looks like EV is winning the race for new technology which sounds reasonable, the tech is advancing rapidly and it seems good for noise and air pollution at point of use which has to be a good thing (and they are rapid)!

It doesn't feel like a rapid advance and the 'race' as such seems to be a bit slow.

We started to see infrastructure for EVs appear widespread what? 5 or more years ago? And certainly from what I see it's not really much used. We see a sprinkling of Teslas, Leafs, Zoes, and a few hybrids.

This is despite incentives and subsidies.

We don't see much in the way of hybrid or EV LGVs.

The telling point is how many EVs are actually being sold vs ICE vehicles - if you figure a decade lag from the point where EVs start to take the majority of sales for the non-EV vehicle population to fall signficantly over a decade then we seem nowhere near the tipping point.

So EVs are winning what is a very niche race.