C230K W202 crank pulley

[Kompressor_Dude]

Hi Guys,

Next mod to the car is going to be a larger crank pulley next month. I have sent an email to ASP Racing, and recieved the following response, but it makes little sense to me other than saying they cant supply it!!

Has anyone done this mod to the 230k engine, he suggests 28hp to the wheels, will that be something that i'll notice? Will this damage the engine, basically any comments or discussion on the subject would be much appreciated. I've read past posts on this and done a fair bit of hunting on the net, but lots of info. is dated. I'm looking to find the cheapest quality product that's actually available, and to know the mod's worth doing!

Thanks for any comments, here's the email:


Right now we are not selling the 331320K kit as Bosch has discontinued the spark plugs we used. Until I can find a suitable replacement a complete kit will not be offered. What this means is if you want to purchase the dampner and parts of the reloaction kit we can sell them but it will not be a complete kit. Shipping to the UK UPS runs around 75.00. ON UK cars I require the vin # so we can verify the application and send the correct dampner. 28 hp to the wheels

 

[Adam230K]

Pulleys are alot easier said then done... and you can severely damage your engine if its not done right.

 

[Kompressor_Dude]

I'm getting all of the work done at Olly's, so i know nothing would will happen to cause immediate damage, although i conceed a certain degree of increased wear from the extra power. the main problem is getting hold of a kit that does the job, and seeing if the price is worth the results!

Only one iv found is $1200!!

I take it you have seen these kind of mods go wrong before?!

 

[Adam230K]

I haven't seen with my own eyes, but just heard. But in terms of power for our engines (the 2.3 K) its best just to get an exhaust (starting from the manifold not inc. the manifold), an ecu, and i've even seen more than one example of people buying much larger intercoolers in america and they get alot of extra air to the supercharger, or something along those lines.

All in all, you can expect (realistically) 10-15hp from the exhuast, 5-10 from the chip, and about 20 from the intercooler thing, but i'm not sure how to get one of those!

I personally wouldn't mess with the pulleys!

 

[Kompressor_Dude]

It's had new cat/exhaust system (sport cats, standard exhaust) in the last yeat, so reluctant to replace them already! It's been chipped by a professional race team as a favor and goes like poo off a digging impliment in that respect

Intercooler sounds like a viable option also, would just like a little more from the loud pedal if at all possible!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

That would be in the region of 35bhp at the crank, which is how engine outputs are published by car manufacturers.

There is a risk that the increased boost that the larger crank pulley generates could run the engine lean, ie not enough fuel. This can cause a build up of heat and all sorts of related problems.

Certainly on the C32, where a slightly oversized crank pully has been used, there are lots of people that have confirmed that their ECU has adapated and added the appropriate fuel to ensure the engine does not run lean.

However, crank pulleys are getting bigger, and being run in combination with smaller supercharger pullies too in the quest for more power - leading to a massive increase in boost - too much for the ECU to adapt to.

Very high boost makes a remap is a necessity.

Plugs are probably cooler running or maybe with a slightly tighter gap - a common upgrade on engines running higher boost.

 

[BlackC55]

We can get an intercooler made up. That should not be a problem at all. What have you heard about the pulley kits?

 

[Dieselman]

It would be interesting to stick a huge intercooler on before any other mods as it will produce more power then whilst running lower boost pressure.

One problem with increasing boost is that it increases temperature which then reduces s/c efficiency and cylinder filling.
If you increase cylinder filling without increasing pressure then it will be more efficient and reliable.

Fit an EGT gauge to be safe.

 

[andy27168]

I haven't seen with my own eyes, but just heard. But in terms of power for our engines (the 2.3 K) its best just to get an exhaust (starting from the manifold not inc. the manifold), an ecu, and i've even seen more than one example of people buying much larger intercoolers in america and they get alot of extra air to the supercharger, or something along those lines.

All in all, you can expect (realistically) 10-15hp from the exhuast, 5-10 from the chip, and about 20 from the intercooler thing, but i'm not sure how to get one of those!

I personally wouldn't mess with the pulleys!

Why do you say not to replace the exhaust manifold (header) as I have always believed that this is the most restrictive part of the exhaust system second being the CAT.
The articles I have read (can,t find them ATM) on the net stated 10-15% BHP increase in just replacing the manifold for a performance item, replacing the rest of the system only saw very minimum BHP increases 1-2 BHP.
If the Intercooler size is increased without increasing the boost, in my understanding would,nt make any difference surely as the volume of air produced by the S/C will be filling a larger area with the same demand for air from the engine would actually lower the boost surely.
Any intercooler mod would have to be done with a ECU remap, and pulley kit as well as different plugs, and modified induction system.
I looked into doing these sort of mods when I got the car and at the time I decided against it as I did,nt want to compromise reliability as I was gonna keep the car for a few years.

For pulley kits try here, IF they return your E-mails,
http://www.kleemann.dk/site/Main/performanceproducts/performancekits

If you decide for a manifold try here,
http://www.supersprint.com/a_prodotti.asp?modello=mer20210
There is another company in America called "Renntech" but the link I have is dead, they do (did) complete pulley kits as well.

And as you are in Southampton, try these for a ECU remap, have very good name apparently,
http://www.dmsautomotive.com/index.asp?upid=1&msid=0

 

[Dieselman]

If the Intercooler size is increased without increasing the boost, in my understanding would,nt make any difference surely as the volume of air produced by the S/C will be filling a larger area with the same demand for air from the engine would actually lower the boost surely.
Any intercooler mod would have to be done with a ECU remap, and pulley kit as well as different plugs, and modified induction system.

Boost and cylinder filling are not a direct correlation but are inter-dependent.

As the boost increases the air becomes warmer and less dense, thus there is less cylinder filling and efficiency drops. If you fit a larger intercooler the temperature drops and the air becomes more dense, thus the cylinder fills better with more efficient air.
The intercooler size doesn't make any difference to whether the s/c can fill it as it's already full of air, the only place the air is going is into the engine.

With a larger intercooler more air should pass the MAF so the ECU should fuel up more.

 

[BlackC55]

With big intercoolers there is some lag while the air takes time to compress as ther is a larger area to compress. If we put a larger IC on an increase of 50% is what I was thinking.

 

[Dieselman]

With big intercoolers there is some lag while the air takes time to compress as ther is a larger area to compress. If we put a larger IC on an increase of 50% is what I was thinking.

I know, but that shouldn't be an issue for a s/c, more a turbo. You can then add a larger pulley to increase boost back to the original pressure but will enjoy more flow as a result.

 

[BlackC55]

mmm more (consistant) flow with a SC.

How much air flow can an air mass take before it becomes inaccurate?

 

[Dieselman]

mmm more (consistant) flow with a SC.

How much air flow can an air mass take before it becomes inaccurate?

It shouldn't matter because the MAP and crank sensor will take over. The MAF only detects air flowing so will ramp up quicker.

 

[Kompressor_Dude]

So a combination of a larger intercooler and crank pulley should see best results; Increasing the air available, but ensuring it is cool enough for the engine, and optimal combustion......... is that about right?

Im interested in the idea of headders now also, as iv read on the US form that people have seen some pretty good gains

I'd want to make sure it was all within the limits of the engine though, so would probably want to fit some temp. monitoring equipment also. How sturdy is this little 4-pot? Manual gearbox pretty solid?

Are you game for this project Olly? Could be interesting! just got to get an idea of costs and what order to do it all in.

Thanks for the input everyone, keep the ideas coming if you've got any

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Intercooler, pulley, headers, exhaust - and finally custom map - is the traditional route for charging a supercharged engine.

Do the map last to maximise the gains made by the other modifications, and ensure fuelling is spot on.

 

[Will]

This all sounds quite interesting, and I have plenty of respect for those who enjoy the modding/tuning aspect of this process , but..

When both GrahamC230K and I (plus others) had W202 230 Kompressors, we looked at the option of a pulley swap (plus other mods) to increase the outputs of our engines.

At the time, I think we both decided that the gains on offer vs. the cost/risks involved deemed it less worthwhile than we first thought.

Especially in my case as I had an auto, pre-facelift W202 (Graham liked manuals and the facelifted model). I could have bought a C36 for little more than what my car was worth + the modding cash.

You can pick up C43s with 300+bhp for as little as £4-5K these days, C36s start at just over £2K (with 276bhp as standard I believe).

You'd be getting a complete AMG package - brakes, wheels, suspension, exhaust, bodykit etc.

The argument for swapping cars is very strong if you are just starting out, much more so than when I had my W202 and C43s were all £10K+.

Like I said, obviously it horses for courses (no pun intended!), but I'm probably a bit more boring when it comes down to the numbers and tend to look at it all a bit differently

Best of luck,

Will

 

[Adam230K]

Gotta agree with will here, I have also contemplated getting a C43 to replace my 230K but the only thing stopping me is that its an auto and i like my manuals.

Not sure if other people will agree here but the reason i got a c230k rather then a C280 or even a w203 C320 is because i thoroughly enjoy the instant torque, or feel of the kick from forced induction engines (ie. turbo/supercharged), its just a completely different feel to NA engines.

 

[Uberwagon]

I don't know this engine specifically but with regards to tuning a supercharged engine you do it the same as you would an NA engine when thinking about the exhaust. It depends on how far you want to go, if you do wish to get as much out of it as safely as you can then start from the back and work forwards. Have the exhaust system flowing as well as you can, this doesn't necessarily mean a tubular manifold, some standard systems flow very well as it is.

With the pulley, if you have some kind of EGT set up (I think Dieselman suggested it) then if it's mappable (Which you've had done so it must be) then you wont see any issues with getting it set up right. How much the engine can take though is a different matter.

With an intercooler, you want one just big enough for your application, a massive intercooler will rob response even in a supercharged car, which ruins the reason of it being supercharged over turbocharged. A Chargecooler set up would be far better imo for these aplications but then you are increasing the cost again.

Dave!

 

[Uberwagon]

Not sure if other people will agree here but the reason i got a c230k rather then a C280 or even a w203 C320 is because i thoroughly enjoy the instant torque, or feel of the kick from forced induction engines (ie. turbo/supercharged), its just a completely different feel to NA engines.

Simply install extra capacity and cylinders

Also close your eyes at the petrol station.

Dave!