C350cdi remap

[KeithJG]

I've got mine booked in for a Celtic map this Saturday and not sure if to go for the stage 1 or economy map as the economy give more bhp and torque then the stage 1

Thoughts ?

My Celtic is the stage 1 as previously mention but i will say to you what i had said to me when i had my very first Volvo turbo.

I wanted to up the power so decided on an MBC, manual boost controller, and i did not know how far to turn it up to be safe. Finally i found out from the seller in a high street garage that giving 1.5 turns should give the maximum so i said "then i will give it just 1 turn to be safe" he turned around and said "why?... have it set to maximum and just don`t use the extra"

So i went away and thought about that and set it on 1.5 turns....in other words why pay for something less when the same money will give more then it is up to you if you use it or not.......lol

So i have stage 1 and still get +45mpg i don`t think an economy stage would give me any more besides i just cannot drive like a grandad.

PS. Just read your post you have the words around the wrong way stage 1 is more power than economy.

Good Luck

 

[jacksona]

I've got mine booked in for a Celtic map this Saturday and not sure if to go for the stage 1 or economy map as the economy give more bhp and torque then the stage 1

Thoughts ?

Check this thread: http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/electronics/202643-w219-2010-350-cls-grand-edition.html. A member went for the Economy tune, then got Celtic to swap it to the Stage 1.

Hope this helps?

 

[s70rmp]

Check this thread: http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/electronics/202643-w219-2010-350-cls-grand-edition.html. A member went for the Economy tune, then got Celtic to swap it to the Stage 1.

Hope this helps?

interesting !

I was advised by Ribble Valley to go for the stage 1 so might just go with that as it will be giving me more power anyway then I really need

 

[s70rmp]

Not disputing Celtic's or anyone elses ability, jus a pure 'out of interest' point really. I thought that they'd all require rolling road development to write the initial map which then becomes generic, but then this should mean that they'd have a power curve illustration, couldn't really find that either.

But it is very good to hear happy reviews, as long as the positive change is present, safe & in accordance to the quoted figures, theres nothing against the companies.

Interesting to see how s70rmp will find the map. This is turning into a cool thread

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Hopefully I'll be having a trip to the EVO Triangle on Sunday so will report back

 

[jacksona]

After a lot of thought, I'm pretty much decided to book the G-E in at MSL for a proper custom map with before & after dyno runs


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[Avnt]

After a lot of thought, I'm pretty much decided to book the G-E in at MSL for a proper custom map with before & after dyno runs


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You wont be disapointed with them


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[jacksona]

You wont be disapointed with them


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I'm sure Celtic & Eurocharged are great, but a custom map has to be the way to go, & the dyno is the clincher...


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[Avnt]

I'm sure Celtic & Eurocharged are great, but a custom map has to be the way to go, & the dyno is the clincher...


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Its worth the trip to see that work shop. Its impressive unit


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[jacksona]

Interestingly, just dropped the G-E off at MB Medway for a steering knock to be looked at. Talking to Mike about remaps, and he was very strongly of the opinion to leave well alone. Said he'd seen a lot of broken cars as a result of bad maps & over-fuelling.

I'm as confused as ever! [emoji1]


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[streethawk]

Interestingly, just dropped the G-E off at MB Medway for a steering knock to be looked at. Talking to Mike about remaps, and he was very strongly of the opinion to leave well alone. Said he'd seen a lot of broken cars as a result of bad maps & over-fuelling.

I'm as confused as ever! [emoji1]

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That's why people on here are recommending who to take it too. If olly who is a merc guru carry out remaps then I am sure it's fine. Just go for it mines ace and if you're not happy you can have it returned to stock.

 

[jacksona]

That's why people on here are recommending who to take it too. If olly who is a merc guru carry out remaps then I am sure it's fine. Just go for it mines ace and if you're not happy you can have it returned to stock.

Yeah, it's still definitely on my "want" list. Mike did tell the story of a C63 owner who'd had a remap that resulted in over-fuelling. Somehow, it resulted in a repair bill of £33k! The chap's warranty paid out, but after the Mercedes investigated, they found that the map had been changed (& he mentioned there's some sort of record of modifications stored, even after a map is returned to factory). End result: court case.



Anyway, as well as the camber arm bush, turns out I need the exhaust hangers sorted, and the front discs & pads are on the limit, so it won't be happening this month!

 

[BFT]

Thank you for confirming and clarifying but my interpretation of in house development is writing and using your own software. Brabus and MKB have developed their own software hence i am aware that a lot of tuners use third party software under iicense.

I fully have the capability to develop my own software, however everyone's interpretation is different. My thoughts:

For instance I how many places claim a custom remap, and stick a file in and give your keys back in an hour. That doesn't give time to dyno/log and check it even on OBD. Custom remap my ****.

In house development of the software program WITHIN the ecu is done here to be clear. That is what I believe the customer wants, what is going into their own car and what they are essentially paying for.

In house development of the hexdump manipulation software is not done, and WinOLS is the program of choice. Hell you can use Excel to find maps!

I have developed for other brands where it has been needed but concentrate more on diagnostics logging software in all honesty as that is the stuff you need to see what is happening in the ECU at high speed. OBD2 is usually too slow.

Any decomplilation of the actual ECU dump is usually done by IDA Pro and used by most people.

Hope that helps.

 

[KeithJG]

I'm sure Celtic & Eurocharged are great, but a custom map has to be the way to go, & the dyno is the clincher...


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But at twice the price !

Ok, i am not biased either way one has to do what suits one but i just don`t get this Custom Map and have never understood it for years....it is just to say "I have a Custom Map"

If you use your motor for track days or racing and it has other hardware fitted cams ,exhaust etc. then a custom map is important but just for a road car where the tolerances on modern engines are kept to extremes so that all engines are almost identical for the sake of emissions, and that is the only reason we have ECU, then a total waste of money.

Is the mapper going to consult you every trip of the way asking you how you want this to behave and then what about this what about that ...of course he won`t he will just do the normal basic map economy stage 1 or whatever he has access to...but the difference is you will pay more for nothing....sales gimmic don`t you think?

Interestingly, just dropped the G-E off at MB Medway for a steering knock to be looked at. Talking to Mike about remaps, and he was very strongly of the opinion to leave well alone. Said he'd seen a lot of broken cars as a result of bad maps & over-fuelling.

I'm as confused as ever! [emoji1]


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I use Mike also and he said the same to me about remaps but why?....you would of thought that he would benefit from more breakdowns as you would use him more.....Mike being trained by MB they always have the thought that they don`t like others playing with there motors. My other indy who is know to Mike also said to me "isn`t it fast enough already" so he dislikes others playing with Mercs. also and he was MB trained.

Just to put a final point to what i think i went to MB at Ashford for some steering fluid and only had the car for 2 days when paying for the fluid i asked him if he could just come out and show me where the brake fluid container was also as i wanted to check it. He would not come out as he said "we don`t like to go outside to customers cars."

So as it happened his boss then appeared and while he was there i created a scene and they both could see i was mad and in the end he came out to show me. Of course it was under a cover i had not seen.

But i asked him why he wouldn`t come out and he said "we don`t like people playing with our cars" i was absolutely livid that he was condeming me because i wanted to merely do safety checks to see if the fluid level was correct.

I will use Mike but i have travelled 128mls each way to see Olly and that is the way i like it.

Hope it helps unconfuse you.....lol

.

 

[Flash]

Yeah, it's still definitely on my "want" list. Mike did tell the story of a C63 owner who'd had a remap that resulted in over-fuelling. Somehow, it resulted in a repair bill of £33k! The chap's warranty paid out, but after the Mercedes investigated, they found that the map had been changed (& he mentioned there's some sort of record of modifications stored, even after a map is returned to factory). End result: court case.



Anyway, as well as the camber arm bush, turns out I need the exhaust hangers sorted, and the front discs & pads are on the limit, so it won't be happening this month!

A tuning box or poor/dodgy remap would only do this and cause damage. Thats why you only use a highly reputable tuner for remaps and steer clear of the tuning boxes. However, if MB dealers were still all selling Brabus power modules behind their parts counter than I am sure he would have had a different attitude. The main reason why MB dealers were stripped from selling the Brabus power modules was due to their lack of technical knowledge on the product!

IMO after doing research the Kleemann tuning boxes for Mercs are slso a recipie for disaster as they are manufactured by Diesel Power and dump a load of fuel. Kleeman however are supposed to be a big part of the MB tuning scene but not for diesels. When I spoke to the boss of Kleemann UK distributon by the name of Steen about the KD box he lacked technical knowledge which was worrying to me.

 

[Parago]

Hi if you are interested I have a Brabus D6S for the 350 CDI engine. It came off my 350 CDI estate as I now have the E Coupe and needed a new Brabus kit for it as I could not transfer between vehicles as the Coupe has the 9 speed box. Looking for £400 ono. I have all receipts and it was fitted and removed by MB dealership. Gordon 07766 505520

 

[BFT]

But at twice the price !

Ok, i am not biased either way one has to do what suits one but i just don`t get this Custom Map and have never understood it for years....it is just to say "I have a Custom Map"

If you use your motor for track days or racing and it has other hardware fitted cams ,exhaust etc. then a custom map is important but just for a road car where the tolerances on modern engines are kept to extremes so that all engines are almost identical for the sake of emissions, and that is the only reason we have ECU, then a total waste of money.

Is the mapper going to consult you every trip of the way asking you how you want this to behave and then what about this what about that ...of course he won`t he will just do the normal basic map economy stage 1 or whatever he has access to...but the difference is you will pay more for nothing....sales gimmic don`t you think?



I use Mike also and he said the same to me about remaps but why?....you would of thought that he would benefit from more breakdowns as you would use him more.....Mike being trained by MB they always have the thought that they don`t like others playing with there motors. My other indy who is know to Mike also said to me "isn`t it fast enough already" so he dislikes others playing with Mercs. also and he was MB trained.

Just to put a final point to what i think i went to MB at Ashford for some steering fluid and only had the car for 2 days when paying for the fluid i asked him if he could just come out and show me where the brake fluid container was also as i wanted to check it. He would not come out as he said "we don`t like to go outside to customers cars."

So as it happened his boss then appeared and while he was there i created a scene and they both could see i was mad and in the end he came out to show me. Of course it was under a cover i had not seen.

But i asked him why he wouldn`t come out and he said "we don`t like people playing with our cars" i was absolutely livid that he was condeming me because i wanted to merely do safety checks to see if the fluid level was correct.

I will use Mike but i have travelled 128mls each way to see Olly and that is the way i like it.

Hope it helps unconfuse you.....lol

.

Biggest problem with maps that are flashed in I find on Mercedes/VAG and BMW especially is the overboosting of the turbo. Turbo's wear and sometimes some map boost curves are far too aggressive and end up overshooting their specified value from the ECU. The Turbo Geometry Duty Cycle Map should be adjusted to compensate on the ECU by logging to suit.

Logging can be done on or off the dyno with a suitable tool. 4th gear (If in a 5 or 6 speed) from low rpm to red line logging the live parameters from the ECU can be enough to tweak it accordingly.

If the DPF is removed the turbo duty cycle map must be compensated accordingly for example.

My, this is a fun filled topic!

 

[s70rmp]

Todays remap didn't happen due to a misunderstanding, it's going to be rescheduled sometime soon fingers crossed I don't spend the money before then !

 

[gIzzE]

2) If mapping is as good as everyone claims with no negative effects, why don't the manufacturers do it in the first place so they can sell their cars as "more powerful, faster and/or more economical"?

The manufacturers are obsessed with making their cars as fuel efficient as possible, they invest in new materials and spend billions developing engines. If they could get their engines to be more economical without a trade off somewhere else, surely they would.

A simple ECU software change would cost just pence, if anything, to implement with every car during production, so why not?

Marketing.


All the manufacturer needs their car to be is...slightly more powerful than the competitions, and as economical as possible with some headroom left for when the competition ups their game figure wise.

You also have to remember that these cars have to also work at +50ºc and -50ºc and be run on crap fuel.

When they release a new engine, the the 3 litre v6 diesel, they just need it to be slightly better than the competition. So, the 320cdi needed to beat the 204bhp BMW, so it came out with 224bhp. BMW then updated the 330d to 230bhp, we saw the 350cdi go to 231bhp, BMW were then 245bhp, Mercedes then jumped to 265bhp.
And so it continues. When the 3 litre v6 diesel had 224bhp folk were saying a remap to 270bhp was pushing it too far, but within 6 years it was coming out of the factory with 265bhp as standard.

I'm sure we will see a new v6 diesel soon with 300bhp as standard, will they never increase that power over the life the engine is used? Of course they will, probably be 350bhp by the time it is replaced again.

As long as you are better than your competition why go any higher? Leave yourself some headroom and a chance to sell the owner the better spec in a few years time.

 

[KeithJG]

Marketing.

All the manufacturer needs their car to be is...slightly more powerful than the competitions, and as economical as possible with some headroom left for when the competition ups their game figure wise.

You also have to remember that these cars have to also work at +50ºc and -50ºc and be run on crap fuel.

When they release a new engine, the the 3 litre v6 diesel, they just need it to be slightly better than the competition. So, the 320cdi needed to beat the 204bhp BMW, so it came out with 224bhp. BMW then updated the 330d to 230bhp, we saw the 350cdi go to 231bhp, BMW were then 245bhp, Mercedes then jumped to 265bhp.
And so it continues. When the 3 litre v6 diesel had 224bhp folk were saying a remap to 270bhp was pushing it too far, but within 6 years it was coming out of the factory with 265bhp as standard.

I'm sure we will see a new v6 diesel soon with 300bhp as standard, will they never increase that power over the life the engine is used? Of course they will, probably be 350bhp by the time it is replaced again.

As long as you are better than your competition why go any higher? Leave yourself some headroom and a chance to sell the owner the better spec in a few years time.

I suppose also when each model comes off the production line it can then go to any country because of it's standard map?

 

[kyle078]

How much did the remap cost?

Thanks in advance