C350e owners club

[21bees]

Sadly, no, it uses a PTC heater which is a real battery guzzler. In winter, pre-heat when plugged in, then depending on the journey and how much cabin heat you need, it probably pays to run the engine initially to get some residual heat into the engine coolant. A/C to cool uses less energy than PTC to heat. My guess is that the PTC heater is about 4 to 5kW, based on the fact that when plugged in on a 16A supply it needs to draw some power from the battery as well to keep up with the demand.

I’d say that having the cabin cooler and using A/C to dehumidify is probably more efficient than just using heat. We got used to having endless ‘free’ heat in our ICE cars didn’t we!

I have not fully investigated this yet. Is it possible to set the pre-entry climate control to just heat the drivers seat and not heat the whole car via the PTC heater?

I just wish the car came with a proper printed user guide for the command system, instead of the interactive on-line version. I have downloaded a copy of the American spec PDF but where do i find a European version?
apart from that everything is great...

 

[Deleted member 126969]

I have not fully investigated this yet. Is it possible to set the pre-entry climate control to just heat the drivers seat and not heat the whole car via the PTC heater?

I just wish the car came with a proper printed user guide for the command system, instead of the interactive on-line version. I have downloaded a copy of the American spec PDF but where do i find a European version?
apart from that everything is great...

I don’t know. I’ve always just used it and accepted that it’ll heat (or cool) to the last set temperature and put the seat heaters on if needed. Seat heating only is fine of course, and uses little power, but it does nothing for fogged windows, which is more of a concern really.

The climate control should be covered in the owners manual, it’s not part of COMAND as such I don’t think. I did give the manual a pretty good read when I got the car, but that was almost 4 years ago now so of course, I’ve forgotten most of what I read Having retired a while back, and being a miserable antisocial mysanthrope, I rarley use the car to remind myself how it works anyway. Not sure why I’ve got it TBH.

 

[seekay]

Sadly, no, it uses a PTC heater which is a real battery guzzler. In winter, pre-heat when plugged in, then depending on the journey and how much cabin heat you need, it probably pays to run the engine initially to get some residual heat into the engine coolant. A/C to cool uses less energy than PTC to heat. My guess is that the PTC heater is about 4 to 5kW, based on the fact that when plugged in on a 16A supply it needs to draw some power from the battery as well to keep up with the demand.

I’d say that having the cabin cooler and using A/C to dehumidify is probably more efficient than just using heat. We got used to having endless ‘free’ heat in our ICE cars didn’t we!

Thank you, I had a feeling about this. So for example in EV mode if I set the A/C to 24 degrees, in theory it should be more economical than setting to 24 degrees without A/C?

We had a 90 miles trip today, including lots of motorways, A and B roads, through towns and villages. The weather was a disaster last night so didn’t charge it, left with a nearly flat battery and used it hybrid eco mode. There was a long uphill stretch with very congested traffic and the ICE kept cutting in and out so often. It was a quiet jerky experience every time when the engine turned on whilst crawling uphill. Is it “supposed to be” like this? Can the uphill crawling confuse the gearbox a little bit especially when the engine constantly cuts in and out?
It’s always been a very smooth transition between the electric motor and ICE apart from this slow moving, jerky uphill drama and I felt a little disappointed because of this jerky behaviour, wouldn’t really expect it from an MB.

 

[Deleted member 126969]

If you are wanting to demist, I think using the A/C will be quicker and more efficient than relying on just heat, but heat + A/C will always use more than just heat due to the way it works. The A/C chills the air which forces the moisture to condense out, the air is then heated again to best achieve the desired temp. What I’m suggesting is that running the temp at say 22 with A/C will be quicker and more efficient than just heating to say 28......but I’m only guessing.

Can’t say I’ve experienced any particularly jerky transitions under those sorts of circumstances, it’s usually pretty seamless. It sometimes gives a bit of a lurch at very low speeds when quickly going from decelerate to accelerate.

 

[seekay]

If you are wanting to demist, I think using the A/C will be quicker and more efficient than relying on just heat, but heat + A/C will always use more than just heat due to the way it works. The A/C chills the air which forces the moisture to condense out, the air is then heated again to best achieve the desired temp. What I’m suggesting is that running the temp at say 22 with A/C will be quicker and more efficient than just heating to say 28......but I’m only guessing.

Can’t say I’ve experienced any particularly jerky transitions under those sorts of circumstances, it’s usually pretty seamless. It sometimes gives a bit of a lurch at very low speeds when quickly going from decelerate to accelerate.

This jerk was probably related to the gear changes at very low speeds during the constant acceleration and deceleration. I was only doing about 5-10 mph in the queueing traffic, engine was off. Then the traffic suddenly started moving, I gave a harder push on the accelerator therefore the ICE kicked in and suddenly changed into the 2nd gear. On a flat road it works seamless but the uphill definitely confused it, don’t know why.

 

[Deleted member 126969]

Could well be the same circumstances that occasionally triggers mine then. “It’s a feature, Sir”

 

[seekay]

Could well be the same circumstances that occasionally triggers mine then. “It’s a feature, Sir”

Alright then, time to enjoy the car instead of worrying.

Driving in E-mode only, did you guys notice any difference in performance, torque, acceleration between eco and comfort mode?

 

[Deleted member 126969]

After a few brief button-presses when I got the car, I pretty much leave it in comfort, hybrid modes. If I’m near home and have managed a trip on battery only up till then, I’ll drop it into EV mode to try and force it to stay on battery, if I’ve got an overtake coming up that I can see want’s a bit more oomph I’ll drop it into sport beforehand....but that’s about it, I just leave it to do it’s thing.

I never use charge mode at all. Did once just to see what it did when I got the car. It just made a lot of noise and drank petrol. Seemed rather pointless.

The nav is a blithering idiot that I simply do not trust, so the supposed advantages of having a route set are of limited use to me.

The most obvious difference in performance when on battery is determined by the state of charge. The ‘power meter’ scales as far as I can tell. With a full charge, a full bar of white LEDs is more power than when the battery is nearly flat. Makes sense really that it indicates the available power you have. Presumably the green ‘charge’ LEDs scale too. A flat battery can take more power than a full one. Without some testing on a rolling road though, this is all just supposition on my part.

I absolutely get the fascination with the possibilities when you first get the car, but it wore off pretty quickly for me, sadly. I’ve never really gelled with this car, and regret buying it, but as I’ve said here often enough, that’s more about me than the car.

 

[seekay]

After a few brief button-presses when I got the car, I pretty much leave it in comfort, hybrid modes. If I’m near home and have managed a trip on battery only up till then, I’ll drop it into EV mode to try and force it to stay on battery, if I’ve got an overtake coming up that I can see want’s a bit more oomph I’ll drop it into sport beforehand....but that’s about it, I just leave it to do it’s thing.

I never use charge mode at all. Did once just to see what it did when I got the car. It just made a lot of noise and drank petrol. Seemed rather pointless.

The nav is a blithering idiot that I simply do not trust, so the supposed advantages of having a route set are of limited use to me.

The most obvious difference in performance when on battery is determined by the state of charge. The ‘power meter’ scales as far as I can tell. With a full charge, a full bar of white LEDs is more power than when the battery is nearly flat. Makes sense really that it indicates the available power you have. Presumably the green ‘charge’ LEDs scale too. A flat battery can take more power than a full one. Without some testing on a rolling road though, this is all just supposition on my part.

I absolutely get the fascination with the possibilities when you first get the car, but it wore off pretty quickly for me, sadly. I’ve never really gelled with this car, and regret buying it, but as I’ve said here often enough, that’s more about me than the car.

Silly question but if you try to use the electric motor only, what’s the benefit of running in hybrid mode first then switching to E-Mode for the last 1-2 miles? Sorry for the so many questions but literally just got the car a few weeks ago and I’m still trying to discover these modes and all the features. I read this thread quiet deeply and learnt a lot, always try to find answers in the previous posts. However I still don’t really get this, there was a few other owners as well who mentioned the same, starting in hybrid (even tho wouldn’t let the ICE kicks in) then switched to E-Mode at the last few miles of the trip. If we want the car only runs from the battery, why not start in E-Mode from the driveway all the way through? (As long as the destination is within the electric range.)

 

[Deleted member 126969]

Silly question but if you try to use the electric motor only, what’s the benefit of running in hybrid mode first then switching to E-Mode for the last 1-2 miles? Sorry for the so many questions but literally just got the car a few weeks ago and I’m still trying to discover these modes and all the features. I read this thread quiet deeply and learnt a lot, always try to find answers in the previous posts. However I still don’t really get this, there was a few other owners as well who mentioned the same, starting in hybrid (even tho wouldn’t let the ICE kicks in) then switched to E-Mode at the last few miles of the trip. If we want the car only runs from the battery, why not start in E-Mode from the driveway all the way through? (As long as the destination is within the electric range.)

No reason not to start in EV mode TBH, just that it defaults to hybrid at switch on and it rarely crosses my mind to switch it over at the start of the trip, which is typically to and from the shops, so it would just revert to hybrid again when I start the return trip making that first press redundant.

That said, sometimes I do!

No technical reason anyway, just an operational one

 

[seekay]

No reason not to start in EV mode TBH, just that it defaults to hybrid at switch on and it rarely crosses my mind to switch it over at the start of the trip, which is typically to and from the shops, so it would just revert to hybrid again when I start the return trip making that first press redundant.

That said, sometimes I do!

No technical reason anyway, just an operational one

Ok, it makes sense now.

 

[seekay]

I figured out what caused the jerky transition between the EV and ICE Mode. I noticed yesterday that when I was stationary and put the car into sport mode the ICE wouldn’t kick in. It was turning over painfully slowly, then stopped. Stayed on EV battery however the dash showed sport mode. Moved off, still running from the EV battery and as I reached a certain speed (~20-25 ish) the ICE finally kicked in. I believe it was more likely an old fashioned ‘flat battery push-start’ effect rather than actual battery + starter motor combo.
Since then every time in hybrid mode when the ICE is supposed to kick in it still runs on battery while the ‘power counter’ is in red. After a few seconds the engine kicks in with a very rough sudden jerk. Clearly not the battery and starter motor fires up the ICE, as it needs to reach a certain speed to turn on, regardless how hard I push the accelerator. Also there was a quite lot false alarm recently. I guess I’ll need a new battery. Anyone had experience like this?

 

[Deleted member 126969]

I figured out what caused the jerky transition between the EV and ICE Mode. I noticed yesterday that when I was stationary and put the car into sport mode the ICE wouldn’t kick in. It was turning over painfully slowly, then stopped. Stayed on EV battery however the dash showed sport mode. Moved off, still running from the EV battery and as I reached a certain speed (~20-25 ish) the ICE finally kicked in. I believe it was more likely an old fashioned ‘flat battery push-start’ effect rather than actual battery + starter motor combo.
Since then every time in hybrid mode when the ICE is supposed to kick in it still runs on battery while the ‘power counter’ is in red. After a few seconds the engine kicks in with a very rough sudden jerk. Clearly not the battery and starter motor fires up the ICE, as it needs to reach a certain speed to turn on, regardless how hard I push the accelerator. Also there was a quite lot false alarm recently. I guess I’ll need a new battery. Anyone had experience like this?

Ah, now that would explain it. Never seen that behaviour though so clearly something amiss. What does the app. say the 12v battery status is? Given what you describe I’m a bit surprised it didn’t throw an alert on the dash. Mine starts the ICE instantly when you select sport mode regardless of what the car is doing.

 

[seekay]

Ah, now that would explain it. Never seen that behaviour though so clearly something amiss. What does the app. say the 12v battery status is? Given what you describe I’m a bit surprised it didn’t throw an alert on the dash. Mine starts the ICE instantly when you select sport mode regardless of what the car is doing.

Yes, mine also did start the ICE straight away in sport and sport plus until yesterday.
it’s weird cos sometimes kicks in fine but after a few attempts it starts turning over very slowly. Checked the battery in standbye (no engine running, no ignition) with a multimeter and it read 12.69 V which is normal. However I still believe it doesn’t hold the charge when a bigger consumer eg. starter motor needs to be operated. Another weird thing is, neither the app or the dash don’t show any warning message. Also checked the app’s service menu, 12 volt battery status ok but all these symptoms indicate the battery problem.

 

[Deleted member 126969]

I know start-stop has been around a while now, but it seems to me that in the C350e it'll be doing it a heck of a lot more work than in a 'normal' car, so will get quite a pasting. I did wonder if starters wearing out would be an issue, which was why I was disappointed it has a conventional starter really.

Remembered a good reason to select EV mode at the start of a journey - it won't start the ICE unless you press past the haptic throttle stop that gets enabled in EV mode - takes some of the load in keeping demand below ICE cut-in off the driver that way.

 

[seekay]

I know start-stop has been around a while now, but it seems to me that in the C350e it'll be doing it a heck of a lot more work than in a 'normal' car, so will get quite a pasting. I did wonder if starters wearing out would be an issue, which was why I was disappointed it has a conventional starter really.

Remembered a good reason to select EV mode at the start of a journey - it won't start the ICE unless you press past the haptic throttle stop that gets enabled in EV mode - takes some of the load in keeping demand below ICE cut-in off the driver that way.

I don’t know what else could be other than the battery. The car is a 66 reg and has 81.5 k miles in the clock. The starter was already replaced under the warranty @ 60k miles. The last thing I want is to get the battery replaced for nothing. The independent garages don’t even touch it as it’s a hybrid car and they have no clue how to remove the battery as its fitted in a very complicated way.

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Already quoted at Mercedes, the whole job (labour + part) would be around £325.
If I want to make sure the battery is actually dying it would be a further ~£200 diagnostic which isn’t necessary but that’s the only way they can guarantee to replace the actual faulty part instead of ‘guessing games’.

 

[Deleted member 126969]

MB certainly did a good job of hiding the battery didn't they! So they want over £500 to diagnose and replace a battery. Mmm. Glad I DIY my car repairs, although the MB is still on maintenance until the 6 year battery warranty is done, at which point I'll DIY that one too.

I've seen that video before - doesn't look too bad overall. Crazy to make a service item so awkward, but that's modern cars for you - they all do it.

 

[seekay]

MB certainly did a good job of hiding the battery didn't they! So they want over £500 to diagnose and replace a battery. Mmm. Glad I DIY my car repairs, although the MB is still on maintenance until the 6 year battery warranty is done, at which point I'll DIY that one too.

I've seen that video before - doesn't look too bad overall. Crazy to make a service item so awkward, but that's modern cars for you - they all do it.

Do you think anything else could cause similar symptoms eg. engine turns over very slowly, random alarms, etc. I believe if the starter fails it has different signs. My only doubt is the dashboard and the app. None of them show any fault however they might only be able to check the battery’s voltage which is always charged via HV battery so wouldn’t necessarily show the actual problem.

 

[Deleted member 126969]

Slow cranking is fundamentally down to two things. Poor battery or poor cuircuit path (including the starter itself). I’ve no clue how the battery monitoring is done on the car so can’t make any sensible comment about it TBH. Failing battery is probably the most likely culprit. Faced with the costs quoted, I might be tempted to try a few tests like connecting a battery booster pack to the jump points on the car then see how it behaves. These new Lithium packs seems quite remarkable in terms of energy density so with care, you could probably locate one under the bonnet (with suitable precautions around insulation etc) and do a short test drive. Failing that, just connect a jump battery and put it in sport, it should fire up immediately.

If it behaved as it should with a jump connection that’s probably good enough evidence to go for a new battery. Not 100% conclusive, but pretty good when factoring in age and mileage as well (mileage being a guide to how much work it’s had to do).

 

[CaptainChaos]

I sometimes get the jerky transmission "feature" in traffic. I think the gearbox hangs on to a high gear for too long and then if you slow to a stop, it finds itself in fourth at 3mph and has a bit of a crisis.

The things about starting off in different modes - I live somewhere cold and the car sits outside overnight. I find it best to start in E-SAVE which forces the engine on. It provides cabin heat very quickly. If I started in normal hybrid mode, I would use a lot of battery power trying to warm the cabin.

Like all modern climate systems, leave it in AC and AUTO and let it sort itself out. Just nudge the temp up or down to suit.