C350e owners club

[CaptainChaos]

Fifth MOT and service done. 36,000 miles. Winter wheels on. Nothing to report. The local dealer was still doing collections which was good. Thought they might have stopped those with all the Covid stuff.

Have renewed my "Vehicle Setup" and "Live Traffic" services again. £65+VAT for the year. Had hoped to swap the car this year, otherwise I would have got two years last time, but with everything going on I thought I would hang on to it.

Not sure what I fancy next. Part of me thinks I should get a big petrol whilst I still can. Quite fancy a V8 F-Pace, but then I think it would probably cost £5 a day to drive to work and back in petrol and that's not great. I like the E-Class All-Terrain, but that's only available in this country with a diesel. You can get it with a V8 in Germany.

 

[Deleted member 126969]

First fault on mine discovered today. Just under 3 years old, just over 8000 miles (no, that isn't a typo or a missing zero, it's under 10k).....exterior door handle LED failure has struck. Don't think I'll bother asking to have it fixed as it's not something I am prepared to pay a dealer to do, particularly given just how endemic it is on the W205. Might DIY it at some point in the future if I can be bothered but suspect I'll just wait a short while for the other 3 to fail then forget all about it.

Pretty poor show I think - I can't say I wasn't expecting it at some point, but to happen at such a low mileage (so little actual use) is dire. Not as if an LED is new technology.

Das Beste Oder Nichts.....yeah, right.

 

[Deleted member 126969]

Fifth MOT and service done. 36,000 miles. Winter wheels on. Nothing to report. The local dealer was still doing collections which was good. Thought they might have stopped those with all the Covid stuff.

Have renewed my "Vehicle Setup" and "Live Traffic" services again. £65+VAT for the year. Had hoped to swap the car this year, otherwise I would have got two years last time, but with everything going on I thought I would hang on to it.

Not sure what I fancy next. Part of me thinks I should get a big petrol whilst I still can. Quite fancy a V8 F-Pace, but then I think it would probably cost £5 a day to drive to work and back in petrol and that's not great. I like the E-Class All-Terrain, but that's only available in this country with a diesel. You can get it with a V8 in Germany.

The F type is epic. Had a go in a mates F-Type S and it was very impressive. Was sorely tempted to buy it when he sold. That ZF gearbox is something else.

 

[CaptainChaos]

Sadly not enough room in an F-Type Chris, but they look spectacular!

My driver's door LED failed some time ago. Not missed it, but it's clearly a crap design.

 

[Deleted member 126969]

Sadly not enough room in an F-Type Chris, but they look spectacular!

My driver's door LED failed some time ago. Not missed it, but it's clearly a crap design.

Just realised I misread your post, you said F-Pace, I saw F-type! Sorry

I also typoed the age of my car, it’s just under 4 years, not 3. No excuse for those door LEDs, though, it’s been a common issue on the W205 from day 1.

 

[raspy]

@Chris-S I have to disagree with you regarding the Model 3.

I bought a Model 3 last summer to replace my C350e and I wasn't that impressed. Returned it to Tesla and got my money back. I was rather upset that I had to do that as I had saved for 3 years to buy the Model 3 as my dream car!

The Model 3 is a brilliant EV, but as a car I found it severely lacking compared to my C350e, particularly on ergonomics, comfort, quality and refinement. Once I looked past the super quick acceleration, EV efficiency, cool touch screen etc, then I realised my C350e was a better car (for me)

C350e has much more comfortable seats (front and rear), more luxurious ride, way less road/wind noise at 50mph and up, amazing headlights (ILS) and my Distronic Plus feels more reliable than the Model 3's autopilot with respect to things like phantom braking on the motorway. Even from an every day practical perspective, having a 360 camera and a turning circle 1m less than the Model 3 makes a huge difference in the places where I have to drive and park.

Quality wise, the Model 3 alarmed me. Even after a few days, the driver's seat was starting to rock back and forth when driving on the motorway, and the Tesla staff didn't seem bothered about one of the rear seat belts not working. On top of that, I've had amazing customer service from the supplying MB dealer as well as the two MB dealers that have serviced my C350e. Tesla's service centre capabilities have not been upgraded to match the increase in sales since the Model 3 was launched here. It's hit or miss, in terms of getting your needs met from Tesla service centres, from everything I've seen. I don't see the point of shelling out over 50k for a Model 3 and then have to buy and install a soundproofing kit to try and reduce the road/wind noise to more tolerable levels (as many owners seem to have done)

As owners of the C350e we pay the price of early adopters. Always the way with these things. TBH, I suspect it’s only legislation that made them fit a bigger battery in the newer cars so they qualify for the tax breaks and could be used to offset fleet emissions much as the C350e was very much aimed at the rules as they were back when it was designed.

It would be good if a bigger capacity battery could be retro-fitted to our cars, but I suspect the chances of that are zero, MB only want to sell new cars, not have old ones refreshed/upgraded and competing for sales.

There are signs that some EVs will be getting battery upgrades, the early Leaf for example can have a new, bigger pack fitted, and at a sensible price too, but I doubt anyone will bother trying to develop an upgrade for the C350e. Too few of them, too complicated and you can bet MB wouldn’t be forthcoming with information to aid the process either.

I’ve said it before and will no doubt repeat it many times, I should have held my water and waited for the Tesla 3 rather than buying the C350e when I did. I’ll stick with it now and keep it until I can face the depreciation. I tend to keep cars a long time and I always intended keeping this one, my thinking being my very low mileage use would help stretch the life of the thing. I guess when it reaches 10 years or so I’ll be old enough to have forgotten what I paid for it and won’t mind trading it in for some second hand EV, or just taking it to the nearest tat yard. Going by use so far, it’ll have about 20k on the clock by then. Very expensive per mile.....

 

[Deleted member 126969]

@Chris-S I have to disagree with you regarding the Model 3.

I bought a Model 3 last summer to replace my C350e and I wasn't that impressed. Returned it to Tesla and got my money back. I was rather upset that I had to do that as I had saved for 3 years to buy the Model 3 as my dream car!

The Model 3 is a brilliant EV, but as a car I found it severely lacking compared to my C350e, particularly on ergonomics, comfort, quality and refinement. Once I looked past the super quick acceleration, EV efficiency, cool touch screen etc, then I realised my C350e was a better car (for me)

C350e has much more comfortable seats (front and rear), more luxurious ride, way less road/wind noise at 50mph and up, amazing headlights (ILS) and my Distronic Plus feels more reliable than the Model 3's autopilot with respect to things like phantom braking on the motorway. Even from an every day practical perspective, having a 360 camera and a turning circle 1m less than the Model 3 makes a huge difference in the places where I have to drive and park.

Quality wise, the Model 3 alarmed me. Even after a few days, the driver's seat was starting to rock back and forth when driving on the motorway, and the Tesla staff didn't seem bothered about one of the rear seat belts not working. On top of that, I've had amazing customer service from the supplying MB dealer as well as the two MB dealers that have serviced my C350e. Tesla's service centre capabilities have not been upgraded to match the increase in sales since the Model 3 was launched here. It's hit or miss, in terms of getting your needs met from Tesla service centres, from everything I've seen. I don't see the point of shelling out over 50k for a Model 3 and then have to buy and install a soundproofing kit to try and reduce the road/wind noise to more tolerable levels (as many owners seem to have done)

Can’t argue with personal experience! My experience with MB dealers doesn’t match yours, so there’s that, although Tesla service by all metrics is dire, so call that one a draw at best. I don’t have the ILS or driving aids on my C350e so wouldn’t know either way, but there’s no denying Tesla have issues with the phantom braking. Ride, yep, very comfortable on the air. Seats are very subjective so I’d have to try the Tesla before commenting.

The noise is interesting, did you measure it or was that a subjective assessment? I’m not meaning to be pissy, just that noise levels are exceptionally difficult to assess without instrumentation, and when something is quiet, you tend to hear things you didn’t notice before.

The quality issues you’ve had are very worrying and clearly Tesla need to get a grip. Presumably you took advantage of the refund after 7 days?

Ultimately, a damn shame it didn’t live up to your expectations. I doubt I’ll ever get to make my own decision on one though, stuck with the C350e for the next 10 years.

 

[seekay]

Likewise I seem to regularly get 10 miles range on a charge. I charge up at work and can just about get home and back (4.9 miles each way). I have noticed that I get best range in Comfort mode + E-Mode. If I use Hybrid it seems to give up on electric mode when there is still 25% or more charge left!

Why would the Comfort mode give better range than Eco mode?
I know it’s an older post but I’m still curious.

 

[Deleted member 126969]

Why would the Comfort mode give better range than Eco mode?
I know it’s an older post but I’m still curious.

I take it to mean they get farther on battery before it starts the ICE by using E mode - as in, it holds onto battery drive a bit longer and will discharge to around 10%, whereas Hybrid typically retains about 20% charge so it's got a bit left for performance boosting. I don't read it to say it gives better miles/kWh in comfort than in eco

Semantics really - what does 'range' mean I suppose?

 

[seekay]

I take it to mean they get farther on battery before it starts the ICE by using E mode - as in, it holds onto battery drive a bit longer and will discharge to around 10%, whereas Hybrid typically retains about 20% charge so it's got a bit left for performance boosting. I don't read it to say it gives better miles/kWh in comfort than in eco

Semantics really - what does 'range' mean I suppose?

I might have misunderstood something but I thought he meant E-mode (electric only operational mode) combined with Eco and Comfort driving mode.

 

[Deleted member 126969]

I might have misunderstood something but I thought he meant E-mode (electric only operational mode) combined with Eco and Comfort driving mode.

Only the way I read it, I’m just as likely to be interpreting it incorrectly as anyone else

 

[raspy]

Can’t argue with personal experience! My experience with MB dealers doesn’t match yours, so there’s that, although Tesla service by all metrics is dire, so call that one a draw at best. I don’t have the ILS or driving aids on my C350e so wouldn’t know either way, but there’s no denying Tesla have issues with the phantom braking. Ride, yep, very comfortable on the air. Seats are very subjective so I’d have to try the Tesla before commenting.

The noise is interesting, did you measure it or was that a subjective assessment? I’m not meaning to be pissy, just that noise levels are exceptionally difficult to assess without instrumentation, and when something is quiet, you tend to hear things you didn’t notice before.

The quality issues you’ve had are very worrying and clearly Tesla need to get a grip. Presumably you took advantage of the refund after 7 days?

Ultimately, a damn shame it didn’t live up to your expectations. I doubt I’ll ever get to make my own decision on one though, stuck with the C350e for the next 10 years.

@Chris-S I also have acoustic glass side windows fitted to my C350e. The car was quiet when I bought it used, but the acoustic glass that MB dealer fitted after I mentioned a TSB for addressing a slight wind whistle from the A pillar made it even quieter.

I don't buy the argument that the Model 3 (or any EV) having no engine means you hear more of other noises. I don't hear any engine noise when I'm cruising along in my C350e. It's just got better insulation, soundproofing, door and window seals than the Model 3. I'm not the only person who found the noise to be higher, hence there wouldn't be so much demand for after market kits to add extra soundproofing and fix gaps in door/window seals on the Model 3. You spend your money on the battery and tech when you buy the Model 3, everything else is built to a cost, including minimising how much soundproofing gets put in at the factory. Tesla are said to be adding laminated side glass to the Model 3 next year in an attempt to address the noise.

In terms of objective data, a YouTuber who reviews lots of EVs uses gadgets to measure the noise in the cabin. The Model 3 doesn't do that well. At the top is the Audi e-Tron (which I have test driven and really is so quiet, but the downside is the sheer weight of the car from all that sound proofing) Noise results EVs

Yes, I returned the Model 3 within the 7 days according to their policy. I spent an hour test driving the Polestar 2 with Performance Pack this summer, on all sorts of roads. Now that is a lovely car that just happens to be an EV, and is much more refined than the Model 3 and would be more closely aligned with the C350e in terms of quality, comfort and ergonomics.

I think MB are having smaller and more affordable EVs coming out in 2021, EQA and EQB, but I don't think they are building a fully electric C class saloon yet.

 

[raspy]

I noticed my car seemed to be guzzling more petrol than it did when I first bought it a couple of years ago.

I drive in London, in a lot of traffic where the air is incredibly polluted, so thought maybe I should try changing the engine air filter.

It was very simple to take out the engine air filter, and it was quite dirty, including tiny bits of leaves stuck in it.

I bought a new filter from MB, was really easy to fit, and since then, from the on board computer shows it seems to be using about 20% less petrol so far.

From what I've read on the service schedule for our cars, MB don't even suggest changing the air filter until after 50k miles?

 

[Deleted member 126969]

@raspy I’ve watched a few of Bjorns videos, he’s pretty thorough and honest! My question re the noise was face value, I wasn’t trying to imply anything. I’m aware of the long list of upgrades for the Tesla, has to be a reason for them after all.

So, Polestar next for you then?

I’ll never buy another MB, let alone another one of their experiments.

 

[raspy]

@raspy I’ve watched a few of Bjorns videos, he’s pretty thorough and honest! My question re the noise was face value, I wasn’t trying to imply anything. I’m aware of the long list of upgrades for the Tesla, has to be a reason for them after all.

So, Polestar next for you then?

@Chris-S Noted

Financial pressures due to lockdown mean I had to postpone changing my car for the time being. However, if the W206 C class in 2021 comes with DrivePilot (Level 3 Driving Assistance tech) then I may consider getting one of those in PHEV format again. I am concerned about keeping my C350e once the 6 year hybrid battery warranty runs out in a year's time.

Owning a MB PHEV long term doesn't fill with me with confidence when Toyota provide extended hybrid cover for cars up to 15 years old (no mileage limit) as long you just get the hybrid health check every year from them.

 

[Deleted member 126969]

You’re not alone in fretting about keeping a C350e past warranty. Every time I look at mine it fills me with dread tbh. Was fretting about it again this morning. My original thinking when buying was that as we do so few miles, it should last a good few years, but now I fret about simple ageing as well, given there seem to be many small and not so small things that should be fine, but seem to be failing with worrying regularity on these. Air suspension, starters, fuel lines, HV batteries losing capacity badly. Trying to decide whether to cut and run now or just hang on and hope the original plan works. It’s only money I suppose.....

I nerly bought a Lexus, probably should have. At least Toyota give a decent warranty.

 

[raspy]

You’re not alone in fretting about keeping a C350e past warranty. Every time I look at mine it fills me with dread tbh. Was fretting about it again this morning. My original thinking when buying was that as we do so few miles, it should last a good few years, but now I fret about simple ageing as well, given there seem to be many small and not so small things that should be fine, but seem to be failing with worrying regularity on these. Air suspension, starters, fuel lines, HV batteries losing capacity badly. Trying to decide whether to cut and run now or just hang on and hope the original plan works. It’s only money I suppose.....

I nerly bought a Lexus, probably should have. At least Toyota give a decent warranty.

@Chris-S I took the extended MB warranty once the 12 month warranty from MB expired when I bought it used. I'm paying £43 a month (£516 per year), but that would cover all sorts of stuff including air suspension or the hybrid system

This is what's covered in terms of hybrid specifically;
"HV batteries, plug-in hybrid batteries, AC/DC on-board charger, invertor, HV coolant compressor, HV ECUs, HV line set, electric motors central power train controls (electrical), PTC interior heating and PTC battery heating."

I will double check with MB warranty people if this will still apply should I keep paying £43 a month after the car crosses the 6 year mark and the formal hybrid battery warranty expires.

German PHEVs seem to be designed for tax breaks, so largely to fleet users who are only bothered that the car is warranted for the duration of the lease (2-4 years)

 

[Deleted member 126969]

I got a quote from MB to extend the warranty at the end of year 3 and it was well over £1k (for a car with just over 7k on the clock) and mostly consisted of things they wouldn’t cover, so I decided not to bother. I’ll be impressed if they cover the HV stuff for anything less than £2k a year when the HV warranty expires at 6 years (or 63k miles for normal people who use their cars, unlike me).

I think I’d go one further than that and say all German cars are designed to be replaced at 2- 3 years.

 

[CaptainChaos]

I got a quote from MB to extend the warranty at the end of year 3 and it was well over £1k

That sounds very high. They must have added an angry customer charge to yours!
Mine was £499 last year and £499 this year (just renewed).

 

[seekay]

On a 25-30 miles journey (through villages, countryside, etc) starting with 100% charge, which usage would result better mpg? Just leave it hybrid mode and let the car figure out how to go (I believe it would use up the HV battery quite quickly) or better keep switching manually between E-Save and Hybrid depending the speed and traffic nature?