C43 Full lock low speed judder

[Riverside Red]

Winter tyres didn't change this characteristic on any of my Quattro's. MB may be different....

Winter tyres certainly made a difference on my S5 Sportback Quattro, for the better Autumn, Winter and Spring. Better ride, handling, less noise and in most conditions better grip. Mind the OEM tyres were Dunlop SportMaxx which I thought were dreadful.

Must say that the Michelin tyres on the C63 are really poor when cold, probably as bad as the Bridgestones that I had on my Honda S2000, but get a bit of heat into them and they're pretty good.

Continental have always been my preferred tyre choice for Mercs.

RR

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I'm most definitely no buying them with my own hard earned cash to discover that. If Mercedes decides that is the only way to fix/mask the problem but don't tell customers that before buying the car then either they can supply them to me, or they can have the car back.

Hare you planning to reject the car?

 

[gr4h4m]

Winter tyres certainly made a difference on my S5 Sportback Quattro, for the better Autumn, Winter and Spring. Better ride, handling, less noise and in most conditions better grip. Mind the OEM tyres were Dunlop SportMaxx which I thought were dreadful.

Must say that the Michelin tyres on the C63 are really poor when cold, probably as bad as the Bridgestones that I had on my Honda S2000, but get a bit of heat into them and they're pretty good.

Continental have always been my preferred tyre choice for Mercs.

RR

There is defiantly an issue and in today's world I can't see why you would sign this off as production not on a high value car like these.
I think the sport Max's don't help, wish we had spotted it on the test drive!

 

[dejongj]

Hare you planning to reject the car?

I'm giving them an opportunity to provide a solution, but yes if we can't get to that then that will happen unfortunately.

 

[Tony Mac]

I took a closer look at the tyres on my GLC today and was shocked to see that after just 8,000 miles the tread on the outer edge / 2" strip is virtually worn away, the rears are still like new - yikes.

In my opinion the juddering & bouncing along with such rapid tyre wear is being caused by faulty steering geometry.

I appreciate St13phil's comments, but if MB told customers they would need to fit winter tyres, even when winter hasn't actually arrived, and the standard tyres would only last 12,000 miles, my guess is that 90% of their GLC customers would have gone with an X3 or Audi. I most certainly would have.

This is not acceptable for a family SUV - it's 2017 and we should expect every new car to drive smoothly around corners, especially from an MB!!!

The tyres might be the issue / problem, but MB have to supply an almost £50k car on appropriate wheels and tyres that are fit for purpose.

Just in case you haven't seen my video showing how bad the wheel juddering and bouncing is - it's significantly more pronounced when you are in the car, and frightening for passengers - take a look at this video,

www.cncworks.com/tm/videos/glc_judder/judder/GLC_Judder.html

The MB dealers are shocked by this behaviour, but afraid to say or do anything that might cause a problems with HQ - shocking way to treat high-value customers

 

[dejongj]

Quite a few others have come forward on the AMG Private Lounge with similar issues, and also on the US mbworld.org

Furthermore as posted in the other thread, Honest John has also collated quite a few cases of people reporting these issues.

Something is seriously wrong with the setup. My wife had a serious judder going around a roundabout tonight. The car was fighting her to go straight as well.

 

[Luddo27]

I've got a GLC 43 and mine does this really badly. It's been in twice to MB a nd they say this is normal and that I need to fit winter tyres to correct this. I don't trust the car in cornering, it does it in all sorts of temperatures esp when wet. It's supposed to be my dream car but the fact is it's ok as long as you only drive it in a straight line. Coming out of junctions, parking etc its juddering about all over the place. Really disappointed.

 

[alexpez]

Is this related to the high caster settings on some of the Mercedes cars? My c63 has over 11degrees of caster, which is great for high speed stability, and causes a huge amount of camber gain when turning the wheel (which is why the wheels sit up on their edges at low speed). I notice that when reversing at full lock, I can feel and hear the tyres juddering across the tarmac.

Where this comes into its own (imo) is when you're driving at speed. You get more straight line stability due to self aligning torque. You get better cornering grip due to the camber gain which increases the contact patch due to higher weight transfers and body roll in the corners at speed. It becomes easier to correct slides (again due to the self aligning torque). You get more stability under braking compared to a car with higher camber settings. It also gives the driver more steering feel.

Looks like a compromise between high speed handling and low speed handling to me.

Very happy to be corrected if any of the above appears to be incorrect (I come here to learn about cars after all).

 

[Tony Mac]

I've got a GLC 43 and mine does this really badly. It's been in twice to MB a nd they say this is normal and that I need to fit winter tyres to correct this. I don't trust the car in cornering, it does it in all sorts of temperatures esp when wet. It's supposed to be my dream car but the fact is it's ok as long as you only drive it in a straight line. Coming out of junctions, parking etc its juddering about all over the place. Really disappointed.

I have just spoken to the Service Manager at my MB dealer and he insisted that the only fix is to fit Winter Tyres - MB are ignoring this fault, maybe it's too difficult and or costly for them to fix.

You might wish to take a look and add your comments on the Honest John web site, where many others are having the same issue with their GLC's,

Mercedes-Benz refuses to fix crabbing problem on GLC and GLC Coupe | Motoring News | Honest John

Interestingly someone on HJ's site thinks the European / Left Hand Drive cars have a different steering-rack setup, which is why we aren't seeing the fault being reported from Germany etc. As I'm sure they would not stand for such a low quality and poor drive from a premium brand manufacturer!!

 

[brucemillar]

Is this related to the high caster settings on some of the Mercedes cars? My c63 has over 11degrees of caster, which is great for high speed stability, and causes a huge amount of camber gain when turning the wheel (which is why the wheels sit up on their edges at low speed). I notice that when reversing at full lock, I can feel and hear the tyres juddering across the tarmac.

Where this comes into its own (imo) is when you're driving at speed. You get more straight line stability due to self aligning torque. You get better cornering grip due to the camber gain which increases the contact patch due to higher weight transfers and body roll in the corners at speed. It becomes easier to correct slides (again due to the self aligning torque). You get more stability under braking compared to a car with higher camber settings. It also gives the driver more steering feel.

Very happy to be corrected if any of the above appears to be incorrect (I come here to learn about cars after all).

You are correct, to some degree. But we do not know what Mercedes will say on the matter.

What still concerns me is that some report the car is hopping. That suggests that a diff is locking beyond it's (the drive train) design limits. If that is the case then you would expect to see some kind of hard failure at the weakest point. ie a CV joint or a diff, or at worst in the transmission. If it were a slight vibration ( very subjective phrase here) then I would argue that it is a compromise that may not cause any failure and could be absorbed by the tyre flex/tread block movement. But hopping and clonking! suggests that the drive shafts are actually locking with the diff then releasing as a wheel leaves the road surface - the hop that it is forced into - allowing the wheel to jump in free air as it has no mechanical grip on the surface, before it hits the ground again. That by definition, cannot be good for the mechanics of the car or the driving experience.

 

[dejongj]

I have just spoken to the Service Manager at my MB dealer and he insisted that the only fix is to fit Winter Tyres - MB are ignoring this fault, maybe it's too difficult and or costly for them to fix.

You might wish to take a look and add your comments on the Honest John web site, where many others are having the same issue with their GLC's,

Mercedes-Benz refuses to fix crabbing problem on GLC and GLC Coupe | Motoring News | Honest John

Interestingly someone on HJ's site thinks the European / Left Hand Drive cars have a different steering-rack setup, which is why we aren't seeing the fault being reported from Germany etc. As I'm sure they would not stand for such a low quality and poor drive from a premium brand manufacturer!!

That snippet of information actually comes from this forum. I have no idea whether technically that makes the difference but there is difference in setup between LHD and RHD. That could also explain why none of the US forums complain about this either. On my thread over there I've only got one LHD vehicle which occasionally gets it a little bit. And yes I can fully comprehend that you can get this occasionally a little bit. Very different though to getting it persistently and continuously.

 

[PhilT]

It does it on my c63 & I thought there was a problem too, Merc said its normal & was happy to take me out in other cars to show the same. I asked on mbworld with more c63 owners and they all said the same.

Ive noticed it is only there in cold weather & the contis make it even worse. It seemed no where near as bad on the yokos.

Yes it feels pretty bad too like the steering is shaking & the tyres are going forward when turning. Mine only seems to happen on u turns/full locking going forward.

 

[dejongj]

It does it on my c63 & I thought there was a problem too, Merc said its normal & was happy to take me out in other cars to show the same. I asked on mbworld with more c63 owners and they all said the same.

Ive noticed it is only there in cold weather & the contis make it even worse. It seemed no where near as bad on the yokos.

Yes it feels pretty bad too like the steering is shaking & the tyres are going forward when turning. Mine only seems to happen on u turns/full locking going forward.

If it ONLY did it when temperatures drop significantly like today with the snow I have a little bit more sympathy for it. But unfortunately it doesn't, it does it all the time in double digit temperatures as well.

Maybe I'm old school, but the kind of juddering that is being experienced if that was happening on the old 4x4 systems you would reverse and straighten up immediately. It is really bad for the car.

 

[Tony Mac]

The new car sales manager at my dealer called me to say that after receiving dozens of complaints from GLC customers, he decided to test the GLC C43 for himself. He said it the worst low speed juddering and bouncing he'd experienced in a MB, it felt like the car was doing an 'Irish Jig' - I thought this was quite an appropriate way of putting it

He has been receiving the same - fit winter tyres - response from MB HQ, but doesn't believe this is really the answer. He also admitted that none of the sales people have told prospective GLC customers they will need to fit winter tyres, and nobody in a relatively warm UK should need to read the user manual before buying a £50,000 MB car - fitting a new set of tyres at <7'C temps in the UK is nonsense.

We also talked about the rapid tyre wear on our 250d AMG Line GLC - after 8,500 miles the fronts show excessive edge wear that will probably result in a total life of around 11 - 12,000 miles maximum - This is my Wife's car, it's being driven quite cautiously, averaging approx 43 mpg. She's not racing to and from the shops! As the GLC is relatively new model, the sales manager couldn't give me an answer on whether this was an acceptable level of wear, but did agree it was on the low side for a mid-sized car. He did not accept that the wheel juddering and tyre wear are related, but I believe they are.

He doesn't have any answers but is hoping, like all of us, that MB find a fix soon!

 

[dejongj]

Someone asked me to slow the video down, so I did

https://youtu.be/rvnZEOqCrQg

 

[001]

Wow not good .what profile tyres are you running they look very slim?

 

[Tony Mac]

To help paint the picture - this video gives you an idea of the 'characteristic' we are experiencing with of our GLC 250d AMG Line on 20" wheels,

https://youtu.be/E9vpoYz0Mswrr

It's worth noting that the stabilisation software on the camera actually reduces the impact on the video of the juddering and bouncing felt inside the car

 

[dejongj]

Wow not good .what profile tyres are you running they look very slim?

I am on standard Mercedes AMG 21", Tony is on 20", there are confirmed reports also from those on 19" and 18". And all have different standard tyres on them; i.e. Continental, hankook, Pirelli, Bridgestone. It really doesn't matter.

 

[grahamg]

It's not knickers in twist, and with the greatest respect to all it needs to be experienced in this vehicle to believe it.

My C43 does this at varying degrees of steering angle just like yours.

I fully understand that this is now a very old thread but many will still be experiencing these issues. I have a MB C43 4Matic Saloon on a 16 plate and have experienced the same problem. The car was running the original Dunlop Sport MAXX RT MO 225/40ZR 19 93Y Extra Load tyres with just over 14000 miles on the clock. Not being the first owner I have no idea how the car had been driven but the front tyres were down to around 2mm with the outer edge of the nearside tyre the worst suggesting it had been ragged around a few roundabout a bit sharpish !!. Looking at various forum pages it seemed that tyre choice made no difference so I went looking for replacements with an open mind. One tyre dealership was able to do me a good deal on like for like replacement so I went for it. The juddering has completely stopped. At first I thought this may be because they are new and may still have the manufacturers release lubrication on them but 100+ miles later there is still no sign at all of the juddering/skipping. I am told that although the tyre name is the same it is a different tyre. Other markings are as follows;- Treadwear 240, Traction AA, Temp A, B374841, 0268097, 024787 S2WR2, DOT DMJA, JK1R, 0518.

 

[ShaneyB]

Mercedes took my C43 in a couple of months or so ago to put Continental XR's on mine and it hasn't juddered at all since.
I did always hate Dunlop's.

Transforms my attitude towards the car completely as I was about to trade it in but will keep it for another year or so now.