C63 PPP - KW V3 Coilovers

[Palmball]

Nisfan - The B63 is designed for the standard exhaust and the B63S is designed for sports cats. I used Shell V Power on both occasions (and 90% of all other times too).

Below is the dyno chart showing stock (blue line) and Brabus (red line). As you'll see, the extra 4bhp comes right at the last 100rpm and indeed, between 5000rpm and 6500rpm, the Brabus tune actually produces less power than standard! This really does confirm just how strong the car was in the first place!

The torque figure is also unchanged and CPR have suggested that it may be possible that Brabus didn't raise the factory torque limiter when in fact this is one of the most important things that should be done to get any gains.

I have contacted Brabus and they appear to be genuinely concerned. They have been sent all the info I have on the dyno which includes what you see below and all the air fuel ratio, temperature and pressure charts. They've assured me that they are going to get a solution for me and I guess I'll see whether this means better results and if not, whether they are prepared to give a refund (which I have mentioned and they haven't ruled out yet!).

I'm so glad that I went to the effort of getting the dyno run before I had the Brabus kit put on....

 

[Legin]

Given the pull was done on different days the difference is effectively non existent. Thinking about this CPR outfit for my AMG especially as they are just around the corner.

 

[NISFAN]

Yep, that is as close as two runs get. Not much in them. Looks like they have raised the rpm cut, which is where your seeing the power peak, and if anything slightly more advance below 3500, and slightly less above 4500rpm, but we are probably talking 0.5 degree if that.

I'm pretty sure you will atleast get your money back, but hopefully Brabus will whisk you and your car off to AMG land, and do some tuning wizardry on it. Don't hold your breath.

 

[Palmball]

Yep, that is as close as two runs get. Not much in them. Looks like they have raised the rpm cut, which is where your seeing the power peak, and if anything slightly more advance below 3500, and slightly less above 4500rpm, but we are probably talking 0.5 degree if that.

I'm pretty sure you will atleast get your money back, but hopefully Brabus will whisk you and your car off to AMG land, and do some tuning wizardry on it. Don't hold your breath.

Absolutely spot on!

The ignition timing chart confirms it is indeed advanced lower down in the rev range and retarded higher up compared to stock.

 

[NISFAN]

Come on someone with a stock C63 (non PPP) please get your car down to CPR for some plots to compare.:bannana:

Palmball, what were the AFR's during the run? Low 12's?

 

[Palmball]

Now Nisfan, I'm not an expert in this by any means so maybe you can tell me whats going on here.

Here's the AFR chart and it seems that your guess, in the mid-range at least was again spot on....

 

[Palmball]

Brabus have responded to me.

They have commented that my car is exceptionally strong and far above normal tolerances for a standard car and made it clear that there is not a fault with the Brabus product (which to be fair, I never said there was).

However, they have been incredibly reasonable and are refunding the cost of the kit for me (less fitting) which I am absolutely delighted about!

 

[d w124]

^That`s good news but if I was you,I would leave it alone.Maybe just de-restrict

 

[S60_alex]

What will happen? Will they re-flash your car back to standard, or just leave it with the Brabus tune on for free?

 

[BenzedUP]

What will happen? Will they re-flash your car back to standard, or just leave it with the Brabus tune on for free?

Think it's a device they fit to the car, it's not a reprogram, they just simply unplug the device!

Bad gain btw only improvment your getting is at the top end...

 

[Palmball]

No it isn't an actual device - it is an actual ECU flash so they will plash it with the original program.

 

[BenzedUP]

Ooops my bad, lol. dyno it when they flash it as they might put the wrong software, they did that on my old e55.

 

[crockers]

Palmball - you said you were looking for a carbon rear diffuser ..is this what you're looking for?

BENZ W204 AMG LOOK CARBON FIBER REAR DIFFUSER C350 C63: eBay Motors (item 160427230278 end time Aug-22-10 07:12:54 PDT)

 

[Palmball]

It is in a way exactly what I'm looking for but those Chinese 'replicas' have a horrendous reputation for not fitting properly - there are threads on the US forums which warn very strongly to stay away from the eBay diffusers!

Thanks for trying though!


Interestingly, for those who saw the Kicherer C63 in this month's Mercedes Enthusiast magazine, I contacted them to ask them how much for the carbon diffuser fitted to that car - it looked like a standard C63 diffuser in carbon which is exactly what I wanted.

Anyone like to guess how much the Kicherer one is??


As a guide, the Kleeman one was about £300 and most of the ones you can get from the US tuners are around £250-£400

 

[mercboiuk]

Anyone like to guess how much the Kicherer one is??

Hmmm....You'd only be asking if it was hideously expensive or unbelievably cheap. I'm going with the former and guess £900.

That's good news on the Brabus front, though. Looks like you'll have the money for a Kleemann upgrade

With reference to you keeping the car as standard as possible, modifying with Mercedes (or affiliate) products, have you enquired with HWA-AMG if they can modify the engine further and create a Carbon Diffuser?
As I understand, if you asked AMG very nicely, they would tune the old SL55 AMG to 600bhp.
Just a thought, bearing in mind the above (I'm sure, if they would do it, it wouldn't be the cheapest option, though)

Darren

 

[Palmball]

That's good news on the Brabus front, though. Looks like you'll have the money for a Kleemann upgrade

With reference to you keeping the car as standard as possible, modifying with Mercedes (or affiliate) products, have you enquired with HWA-AMG if they can modify the engine further and create a Carbon Diffuser?
As I understand, if you asked AMG very nicely, they would tune the old SL55 AMG to 600bhp.
Just a thought, bearing in mind the above (I'm sure, if they would do it, it wouldn't be the cheapest option, though)

Darren

Lol - I have been considering the Kleeman but having looked into that further, to do it properly needs ECU, Headers and Cats...and thats even more money than the Brabus option. I'm currently debating this in my head but I am very nervous about non-genuine engine changes on such a new and in-warranty!

With regards to AMG doing the upgrades, I already begged and pleaded with them for both the engine and diffuser when I had my interior done and they are not in the slightest bit interested. I guess these days they are no wholly owned by Mercedes and not independent so are going to be very straight-down-the-line corporate rigid!

BTW - what is HWA-AMG??

So, your guess is £900 :lol:

Anymore for anymore??

Actual answer will be revealed tonight at 11pm!

 

[NISFAN]

Now Nisfan, I'm not an expert in this by any means so maybe you can tell me whats going on here.

Here's the AFR chart and it seems that your guess, in the mid-range at least was again spot on....

Palmball, thanks for posting this graph.

I am surprised that they have opted for such a rich mixture at high revs, it is generally accepted that maximum power is achieved around the 12.3:1 ratio.
From your graph, you can see the AFR's up at 14.5 at low revs (this is probably still ECU controlled closed loop mode - due to small throttle opening, and low load). Then AFR drops to around the 12.0-12.5 mid range, which is ok, but I think going down to such a rich mixture (low 11's) on a normally aspirated car is playing it very safe.
You would normally see low 11's late 10's on a highly boosted turbo engine. This extra fuel is being used to cool the combustion chamber and reduce the chance of detonation.
A good mapper would be able to take some of this fuel out, and get a few more ponies (less thirsty ones too )

I guess I should have expected such a rich brew on a generic map.

At full chat there is going to be a fair amount of unburnt fuel going down the exhaust, which will probably ignite in the CAT's and get them very hot. O2 sensors and exh. manifold won't be liking that heat either.

Good news that Brabus are going to refund. :bannana:

 

[mercboiuk]

BTW - what is HWA-AMG??

So, your guess is £900 :lol:

I'm guessing I'm quite far out on my guess

HWA-AMG, technically HWA AG. I've heard them described as "a tuning company within a tuning company".
They are, in fact, the racing branch of AMG and were responsible for the infamous CLK GTR Road Cars, as well as a plethora of Mercedes/AMG Race Cars. They also produced the 300SL Gullwing 6.0 V8 (original 300SL Gullwings, with the running gear of a W124 E60 AMG) and the A32k AMG (First gen. A-Class with C/SLK32 AMG running gear).
I understand they also developed the CLK DTM Road Cars.
HWA Website Link

Darren

 

[Palmball]

Palmball, thanks for posting this graph.

I am surprised that they have opted for such a rich mixture at high revs, it is generally accepted that maximum power is achieved around the 12.3:1 ratio.
From your graph, you can see the AFR's up at 14.5 at low revs (this is probably still ECU controlled closed loop mode - due to small throttle opening, and low load). Then AFR drops to around the 12.0-12.5 mid range, which is ok, but I think going down to such a rich mixture (low 11's) on a normally aspirated car is playing it very safe.
You would normally see low 11's late 10's on a highly boosted turbo engine. This extra fuel is being used to cool the combustion chamber and reduce the chance of detonation.
A good mapper would be able to take some of this fuel out, and get a few more ponies (less thirsty ones too )

I guess I should have expected such a rich brew on a generic map.

At full chat there is going to be a fair amount of unburnt fuel going down the exhaust, which will probably ignite in the CAT's and get them very hot. O2 sensors and exh. manifold won't be liking that heat either.

Good news that Brabus are going to refund. :bannana:

Thank you very much for this insight - its very interesting! It would be interesting to see what Kleeman do differently!

I'm guessing I'm quite far out on my guess

HWA-AMG, technically HWA AG. I've heard them described as "a tuning company within a tuning company".
They are, in fact, the racing branch of AMG and were responsible for the infamous CLK GTR Road Cars, as well as a plethora of Mercedes/AMG Race Cars. They also produced the 300SL Gullwing 6.0 V8 (original 300SL Gullwings, with the running gear of a W124 E60 AMG) and the A32k AMG (First gen. A-Class with C/SLK32 AMG running gear).
I understand they also developed the CLK DTM Road Cars.
HWA Website Link

Darren

Really...I never heard of them at all. Very interesting but it looks like they would be extortionately expensive!! Interesting prospect putting that V6 into an A-Class though

Oh...I'm not saying about the diffuser. Lets see what other guesses come in at before I reveal all later on

 

[crockers]

£1350....