Diesel additive and injector problems

[splitpin]

I have always used Millers,it beats as it sweeps as it cleans.

Original injectors at 82K but I am in the failure zone now.

Splitpin

 

[Dieselman]

I have always used Millers,it beats as it sweeps as it cleans.

Original injectors at 82K but I am in the failure zone now.

Splitpin

What engine?

If it's a CDI then maybe, but mileage appears to be irrelevant, if it's pre-CDi then NO, injectors wear, they don't fail suddenly.

 

[twice]

To VLAD

I have been trying to lay my hands on some of Liqui Moly's Diesel Purge which all of the Diesel guys in the US use to clean their injectors and pre-chambers.


They swear by the stuff......problem we have in the UK is that there are currently no Liqui Moly agents

Does anybody know where I can lay my hands on some Liqui Moly Diesel Purge??????????

You have a PM regarding Liqui Moly UK contact.

 

[Vlad]

Many thanks for the info on Liqui Moly

I have tried this company before and they are no longer the UK agents. They advised me that there is now no UK agent whatsoever for Liqui Moly....which is a shame.....apparently the products that Liqui Moly sell are expensive and demand dropped off so much that they gave up the UK agency

Thanks for your help though

 

[concordepilot19]

I was wondering about injectors today after I filled up. I always record my MPG and I've noticed a decline recently (47 mpg down to 43 mpg for identical motoring). Could this be :

i) B service required in 500 miles
ii) winter spec diesel fuel
iii) age (4 years old with 112,000 miles full MBSH) most of which driven by me.

or a combination of the above.

It's a C220 CDi estate W 202.

 

[glojo]

or a combination of the above.

It's a C220 CDi estate W 202.

4mpg is a noticeable difference, if your driving style, the distances and speeds etc are exactly the same?? Did you notice a difference in traffic flow on the build up to Christmas?

I would be interested to read Dieselman's comments.

Does your vehicle have a catalytic convertor?

Regards,
John

 

[Deleted member 2227]

What about Petrol additives, any views?

 

[concordepilot19]

4mpg is a noticeable difference, if your driving style, the distances and speeds etc are exactly the same?? Did you notice a difference in traffic flow on the build up to Christmas?

I would be interested to read Dieselman's comments.

Does your vehicle have a catalytic convertor?

Regards,
John

Traffic flow was less before Xmas (incredibly). Yes there is a cat.
I'm reluctant to get the stealership to investigate at the service as the cost could pay for 5 tanks of fuel just for looking !

 

[avoyager]

fuel additive used at service by dealer

Just had service by stealer on my S320 CDI (3 year one at £973 - ouch!) and the invoice lists a fuel treatment being used and charged £10.95 for the privelige.Is this similar to some of the additives mentioned here? If so there cant be warranty issues if Mercedes specify this in service schedule.
Is there any evidence that additives prolong life of injectors. My car has done 150,000 miles and still has original injectors. What would be the normal life of them? The problem I have had with them is the seating rings. They have been replaced several times - a cheap item at 40p each but expensive labour cost!

 

[grasmere]

lists a fuel treatment being used and charged £10.

Interesting - I think you need (must) ask them a. what fuel treatment 'exactly' they used and b. why they used it at all. I suspect its a routine to clean injectors etc but it'll be interesting to know what they used.

 

[Brian WH]

What about Petrol additives, any views?

My manual indicates that "Petrol Fuel Additives" must NOT be used.

And before anyone says it - This was a general statement not for my engine.

 

[glojo]

My manual indicates that "Petrol Fuel Additives" must NOT be used.

And before anyone says it - This was a general statement not for my engine.

Hi Brian,
I am unable to move at the moment, but was also of the opinion that the warranty is very clear. NO fuel additives. I did not think it was specific over petrol or diesel?

To me it is a clear issue, I fully understand the arguements about the use of certain 'additives' and their benefits, but if I dealer blatantly ignores the warranty instructions then surely they have wilfully broke the terms of the Mercedes-Benz warranty?

I would be grateful for any observations on this issue as I would perhaps like to consider the use of some types of fuel additive, but I will NOT knowingly contravene any of the warranty conditions.

Regards,
John

 

[Brian WH]

Hi Brian,
I am unable to move at the moment, but was also of the opinion that the warranty is very clear. NO fuel additives. I did not think it was specific over petrol or diesel?

To me it is a clear issue, I fully understand the arguements about the use of certain 'additives' and their benefits, but if I dealer blatantly ignores the warranty instructions then surely they have wilfully broke the terms of the Mercedes-Benz warranty?

I would be grateful for any observations on this issue as I would perhaps like to consider the use of some types of fuel additive, but I will NOT knowingly contravene any of the warranty conditions.

Regards,
John

Yes I am of the same opinion mate.

My manual only mentions additives for petrol engines. Under Diesel it talks about using mixtures of fuels like Kerosine, but no mention of anything else.

My mate who has just bought an E320 CDI like mine, said I would be breaking the Warranty if I used Additives but I cannot find anything specific that says so. Anyway if the Dealer uses Additive to clean the system at the service, then what is the difference??

 

[glojo]

Yes I am of the same opinion mate.

My manual only mentions additives for petrol engines. Under Diesel it talks about using mixtures of fuels like Kerosine, but no mention of anything else.

My mate who has just bought an E320 CDI like mine, said I would be breaking the Warranty if I used Additives but I cannot find anything specific that says so. Anyway if the Dealer uses Additive to clean the system at the service, then what is the difference??

Hi Brian,
Just persuaded 'the boss' to fetch the manual. I have only had a very quick look, but page 484 last paragraph certainly seems clear enough?

That's page 484 of the 211 manual

Was it a holiday that you have just returned from?

Bye for now,
John

 

[Brian WH]

Hi Brian,
Just persuaded 'the boss' to fetch the manual. I have only had a very quick look, but page 484 last paragraph certainly seems clear enough?

That's page 484 of the 211 manual

Was it a holiday that you have just returned from?

Bye for now,
John

My 211 manual only goes up to 454?????? But I don't have Comand.

Please quote what 484 says mate.

 

[glojo]

My 211 manual only goes up to 454?????? But I don't have Comand.

Please quote what 484 says mate.

Hi Brian,
I wonder why the manual is different the COMAND has another seperate manual of a further 212 pages?

Weird, anyway the last paragraph states:

***Do not use fuel additives as they could lead to increased wear and engine damage. The use of fuel additives limits warranty claims****

This is not a crafty piece of editting on my part. It has a seperate column with nothing underneath it saying it is alright to add such and such.

I have got on my soap boxbefore on this issue so please understand I am solely answering your query and not asking for a further debate on the rights and wrongs.

I respect the right of anyone who wishes to ignore the warranty conditions.

Bye for now,
John

 

[SimonsMerc]

I am unable to move at the moment, but was also of the opinion that the warranty is very clear. NO fuel additives. I did not think it was specific over petrol or diesel?

To me it is a clear issue, I fully understand the arguements about the use of certain 'additives' and their benefits, but if I dealer blatantly ignores the warranty instructions then surely they have wilfully broke the terms of the Mercedes-Benz warranty?

[...]

***Do not use fuel additives as they could lead to increased wear and engine damage. The use of fuel additives limits warranty claims****

An interesting turn of phrase, that. The phrase "limits warranty claims" does not mean "do this and your warranty is invalid". If they wanted to say that, they would have said "The use of fuel additives will invalidate your warranty". Things like this have to be very clear, otherwise they do not stand up in a court of law.

The phrase "use of fuel additives limits warranty claims" is basically a get-out clause that can be invoked if someone does something stupid. It does *not* mean that using *any* fuel additive (such as the ones that dealers most sensibly add during services) will invalidate your warranty.

The terms in the warranty are designed such that if you deliberately do something that will damage your car, the warranty will not cover you. This is perfectly normal for any form of insurance (a warranty is nothing more than a Mechanical Breakdown Insurance - a dealer warranty is simply paid for by the manufacturer as part of you buying their car). Using additives that ensure that the engine functions to its fullest potential and mean that it is less likely to break is not something you do to deliberately damage your car.

I have asked my local dealer about this (benz of Lakeside) and they have said quite categorically that using an injector cleaner is *good* for the engine, that they reccomend it to their customers, that they add it themselves when doing a service, and that it will most definitely *not* invalidate the Mercedes Benz warranty. I asked whether they would be willing to provide this information in writing, and they said that if necessary they would be quite happy to produce a letter to that effect; they could also help write a letter to Mercedes Benz HQ in Milton Keynes asking them to provide the same information in writing, and they were very confident that they would get the letter. I'd suggest you talk to your dealer if you are worried, and ask them to produce something in writing.

-simon

 

[glojo]

I'd suggest you talk to your dealer if you are worried, and ask them to produce something in writing.

Morning Simon,
Thank you very much indeed for taking the time to respond in a most informative manner.

I would be very grateful if you could keep me informed of any response you get from Milton Keynes.

I sound like I am bottling out here, but far from it. I am at present in correspondance with them over the TMC issue and I feel that if I raise another issue I will be looked on as just a 'Pest'.

This might be me worrying over nothing, but it is the way I am.

If you do get a satisfactory response from Milton Keynes then I would be grateful to hear of what brand cleaner they recommend.

Thanks again,
John

 

[SimonsMerc]

I would be very grateful if you could keep me informed of any response you get from Milton Keynes.

I'm not personally going to be writing to them. My car is over 4 years old, and is out of the Mercedes warranty (I have a private warranty from AON and I'm perfectly happy with it). The only Mercedes warranty I have personally is Mobilo Life (and I'm going to be claiming on it for the rust some time soon when I get my act together).

-simon

 

[Dieselman]

I was wondering about injectors today after I filled up. I always record my MPG and I've noticed a decline recently (47 mpg down to 43 mpg for identical motoring). Could this be :

i) B service required in 500 miles
ii) winter spec diesel fuel
iii) age (4 years old with 112,000 miles full MBSH) most of which driven by me.

or a combination of the above.

It's a C220 CDi estate W 202.

Winter diesel and colder ambient temperatures will reduce overall engine efficiency.
All engines suffer higher consumption during winter months.

Try the car on a long run and see the consumption fall as the gear box heats up to full temperature.


According to my Bosch manual fuel consumption on a diesel will be approx 110% in the first 2km of a journey with a cold engine, compared to a hot engine, and a petrol will be in the region of 500% in the first 2km when compared to a hot engine.

Yes you did read that right!

If your diesel doesn't smoke excessively there's nothing wrong with the injectors.