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Driver dies in stolen car chase

not if you build more. if you need 1million spaces, then so be it.
the trouble with letting them out is it gives victims no hope.
and forcee the existing prisoners to build the new ones. take away playstations and skysports and let it be a proper bastille

When it comes to crime we always seem to avoid looking to continential Europe and the Nordic countried who all seem to have a better system than ours, and instead look to the US where ever more draconian measures have not done the trick.
 
When our country was being attacked by the IRA on a regular basis we seemed to get by without all these laws. Then, when America, who some might say have dragged themselves into the crosshairs by their own actions, gets attacked, we all suddenly lose our civil liberties....

Terrorism wasn't as widespread and subversive then, and plenty of people were locked up for long stays.

Not sure what America has to bombing our busses and tube. We, as a nation should be allowed to protect ourselves as necessary, with the correct procedures and supporting evidence.

It would be interesting to see how often this measure has been used.
 
That won't help anyone.
:rolleyes: ;)

If you lock up a serial rapist, serial murerder or paedophile; then you are 'helping' the public. Whilst thesew serial offenders are behind bars then they are not eating their cereal.

We are clearly never going to agree and I would love to know what your suggestion is for serial offenders that will never reform? I never take seriously ANYONE that does not offer an alternative, but merely sits back and criticises.

I have given up waiting for Raymont's reply to my questions, what a pity questions aren't answered as quickly as they are asked especially when we are online, responding to that particualr topic?

I totally agree with Colin'_b's point about the abuse of the anti-terrorism legislation and that to me brings the whole legislation into disrepute.

42 days, not sure on that one.

John
 
Terrorism wasn't as widespread and subversive then, and plenty of people were locked up for long stays.
Not sure about that??

John
 
When it comes to crime we always seem to avoid looking to continential Europe and the Nordic countried who all seem to have a better system than ours, and instead look to the US where ever more draconian measures have not done the trick.

what works in europe does not necessarily work here.
When i lived in europe, the public transport system worked. the trains worked and we got by without congestion charges. Also every policeman is armed evey time.
Different situation occurs in the UK and and so we need different things to work in the UK as well.

In the netherlands i had to pay base rate tax of 40%. not the same here for everywhere.
as we can see. cuddly legislation is not working as well. moreover we have more in common with US than with europe, e.g language, not using euro and the suing culture
 
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to stop suicide bombers attacking roadblocks in Lebanon in the 80's a technique was developed called a "lebanese Triple". A large calibre round into the engine block (we are not talking a 5.56/7.62 here) and then 2 shots into the driver.

perhaps our police should adopt a similar tactic here (assuming we give them enough range time to learn to shoot properly).?

As i get older i notice i get more intolerant and my ideas similarly warped; I am off to self-flagelate
 
to stop suicide bombers attacking roadblocks in Lebanon in the 80's a technique was developed called a "lebanese Triple". A large calibre round into the engine block (we are not talking a 5.56/7.62 here) and then 2 shots into the driver.

perhaps our police should adopt a similar tactic here (assuming we give them enough range time to learn to shoot properly).?
For more years than I care to remember British Police have the munitions, weaponary that your describing.

Regards
John
 
John, its one thing having the weaponry but the armed police I have met in a professional capacity have all complained about lack of practice with live rounds. Even just 2 years ago they were complaining of 1 day per quarter year to train - thats simply not enough to become proficient to the degree required for the above tactic.

And lets face it - the UK does not have politicans prepared to let the police shoot cars off the road - mine was only a tongue-in-check suggestion

matt
 
John, its one thing having the weaponry but the armed police I have met in a professional capacity have all complained about lack of practice with live rounds. Even just 2 years ago they were complaining of 1 day per quarter year to train - thats simply not enough to become proficient to the degree required for the above tactic.

And lets face it - the UK does not have politicans prepared to let the police shoot cars off the road - mine was only a tongue-in-check suggestion

matt
Hi Matt
I understand completely what your saying and if that is the case then those officers need to sit down and compose a report in conjunction with their tactical supervisors. What you are suggesting is simply unacceptable, but shouting will probably not change things.

I understand there might have been a fatal incident during a training exercise and lessons MUST be learnt from any operation that goes wrong and training for only 1 day per quarter is simply unacceptable.

I will politely say I am shocked to hear what your saying, but debating this very important issue on this forum is only going to draw out comments from the usual posters.:o :o

Regards
John
 
With that large, throbbing post count John, I'd say you're certainly a "usual poster" :D
 
to stop suicide bombers attacking roadblocks in Lebanon in the 80's a technique was developed called a "lebanese Triple". A large calibre round into the engine block (we are not talking a 5.56/7.62 here) and then 2 shots into the driver.

perhaps our police should adopt a similar tactic here (assuming we give them enough range time to learn to shoot properly).?

As i get older i notice i get more intolerant and my ideas similarly warped; I am off to self-flagelate

Extrajudicial killings conducted during an illegal occupation?
 
Getting back to the original post, you do have to feel sorry for the guy who was unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and the effect this will have on his family. Yet again another victim of some scumbag who think the world owes them everything. On the technical front it would appear the vehicle was a Mitsubishi L200 pick up, so TPAC on this type of vehicle by the correct police vehicles should not be a problem, but from the video footage and pictures it looks as though it never got as far as a TPAC situation with the driver crashing before TPAC was executed, one comment I'd like to make is if you look at the central reservation barrier it is one of the wire rope types which I am not convinced work, these used to be in place on the motorways in South Yorkshire but most have now been replaced with solid concrete barriers (M18 & M1), these concrete barriers just like the old ARMCO ones provide a solid obstacle to hit, the crumple zones on the vehicle then do there bit absorbing the shock and take all the energy out of the situation. I have seen accidents when vehicles have struck these wire barriers and simply been hurled off like a catpult, a recent one I saw just before last Christmas saw the driveshaft fail on a Peugeot 307 it spun it into one of these wire central reservation barriers, it pinged the car off with such force that it flipped landed on its roof and skidded onto the hard shoulder, micraculously missing everythiing on the motorway, driver and front passsenger were OK, rear passenger had a broken femur. Maybe this type of central reservation barrier was a contributory factor in this accident? Given where the Mitsubishi hit it and finally ended up. Anyone else had or seen any bad experiences with this type of barrier?
 
Anyone else had or seen any bad experiences with this type of barrier?

Twice on the M23 - large SUV and estate car. At different times, but in roughly the same place. Both looked to have been flipped over the central barrier and into lane 3 of the southbound carriageway.
 
Getting back to the original post, you do have to feel sorry for the guy who was unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and the effect this will have on his family. Yet again another victim of some scumbag who think the world owes them everything. On the technical front it would appear the vehicle was a Mitsubishi L200 pick up, so TPAC on this type of vehicle by the correct police vehicles should not be a problem, but from the video footage and pictures it looks as though it never got as far as a TPAC situation with the driver crashing before TPAC was executed, one comment I'd like to make is if you look at the central reservation barrier it is one of the wire rope types which I am not convinced work, these used to be in place on the motorways in South Yorkshire but most have now been replaced with solid concrete barriers (M18 & M1), these concrete barriers just like the old ARMCO ones provide a solid obstacle to hit, the crumple zones on the vehicle then do there bit absorbing the shock and take all the energy out of the situation. I have seen accidents when vehicles have struck these wire barriers and simply been hurled off like a catpult, a recent one I saw just before last Christmas saw the driveshaft fail on a Peugeot 307 it spun it into one of these wire central reservation barriers, it pinged the car off with such force that it flipped landed on its roof and skidded onto the hard shoulder, micraculously missing everythiing on the motorway, driver and front passsenger were OK, rear passenger had a broken femur. Maybe this type of central reservation barrier was a contributory factor in this accident? Given where the Mitsubishi hit it and finally ended up. Anyone else had or seen any bad experiences with this type of barrier?

I think the idea is to twang stuff back into the appropriate carriageway...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=10L8421s18Q&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PTrbUokgohk&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tjNmIfAO8QM
 
I think that is the idea but I'm not sure it works, they twang things back at random sometimes onto the other carrigeway, thanks for the links though
 
I think that is the idea but I'm not sure it works, they twang things back at random sometimes onto the other carrigeway, thanks for the links though

I wasn't terribly at ease with said technology whilst riding bike over the Severn Crossing today... Huge artics rumbling past with the road surface about 1m higher than the cycle lane and a bit of metal rope to stop them from squishing me :eek:

Mildly less alarming than the actual barrier on the side of the bridge marginally lower than my handlebars :eek: :eek:
 
10 years ago the UK was number 1 in the world for the number of stolen cars compared to parc size. Is it still the case? And if so, then are the tactics right? Are the chases worth the risk they bear?
 

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