E-Class Thefts

[aka$h]

not sure if my theory has any merit, but here goes.
In theory its a code of some sort the car wants sent via a laser to start.
If you could have a laser attached to a laptop with a code generator, surely eventually you would gett the code?
I know they car scambled codes, but it may be possilble?
Just a thought.

 

[DrNick]

The car can be started with the flat plastic emergency key. There are no batteries in this so it is a passive system. The only passive system I know of is the inductive loop powered transponder type, so presumably there is one of these in the flat key and by extension in the normal keys. The normal key has an Infra red transmitter as well as a radio transmitter. The radio transmitter appears to activate the remote locking and disables the alarm. The only infra red receiver I'm aware of is in the door handle and is used to control the remote opening and closing of the windows. It might also open the car as well but I'm not sure about this. If you open the car without the radio (using the metal blade) the alarm is not deactivated. This only happens when a valid key is put in the ignition.

So nicking the ignition code remotely is not likely. Grabbing the radio code is also unlikely due to the code changing each time. Maybe they have cracked the infra red system and are opening the windows?

 

[fuzzer]

The car can be started with the flat plastic emergency key. There are no batteries in this so it is a passive system. The only passive system I know of is the inductive loop powered transponder type, so presumably there is one of these in the flat key and by extension in the normal keys. The normal key has an Infra red transmitter as well as a radio transmitter. The radio transmitter appears to activate the remote locking and disables the alarm. The only infra red receiver I'm aware of is in the door handle and is used to control the remote opening and closing of the windows. It might also open the car as well but I'm not sure about this. If you open the car without the radio (using the metal blade) the alarm is not deactivated. This only happens when a valid key is put in the ignition.

So nicking the ignition code remotely is not likely. Grabbing the radio code is also unlikely due to the code changing each time. Maybe they have cracked the infra red system and are opening the windows?

I can't remember off the top of my head their name .. but ... there are components that can be powered by light at the correct frequency. Im sure some boffin will correct me with the name of it. This would prove the point with the emergency key without batteries

Also , im sure the mercedes radio frequency alarm uses two frequencys and a rolling code , so i doubt anyone will be able to guess that one either.

 

[Cclass guy]

not sure if my theory has any merit, but here goes.
In theory its a code of some sort the car wants sent via a laser to start.
If you could have a laser attached to a laptop with a code generator, surely eventually you would gett the code?
I know they car scambled codes, but it may be possilble?
Just a thought.

I have the same idea, there is some authentication between the key and the car, and it won't be easy like one password, but more like authentication key for each password. It should take ages to crack. But with technology, who knows when it's bound to happen

 

[glojo]

But with technology, who knows when it's bound to happen

100% agree, it would be silly to say 'never'. Hopefully though it will not happen this 'week' or next!!!!

It is just reassuring to know that at present we are pretty secure. (apart from the horrible car jackings that I keep reading about)

Regards,
John

If anyone does hear of an E-class being stolen and actually driven, could they please let me know? (without the use of the owners keys of course)

Thanks

 

[wiggy]

there is a much easier was an very obvious if you think laterally...........what has been done in the past, and quite regularly, is for some one to break in to your house at night find your keys and steal the car... no need for grabbers or dodgy dealers selling keys. happened to a friend of mine over a year ago in manchester, woke up to find 2 big burly chaps at the foot of his bed... they asked for his keys and took his car (a bloody vectra! ) he decided that as it was a company car and he didnt want to taste the big blades they were carrying it was the easy option.... not common but i think the moral is....if they want it, its going like it or not.....

 

[Dieselman]

there is a much easier was an very obvious if you think laterally...........what has been done in the past, and quite regularly, is for some one to break in to your house at night find your keys and steal the car... no need for grabbers or dodgy dealers selling keys. happened to a friend of mine over a year ago in manchester, woke up to find 2 big burly chaps at the foot of his bed... they asked for his keys and took his car (a bloody vectra! ) he decided that as it was a company car and he didnt want to taste the big blades they were carrying it was the easy option.... not common but i think the moral is....if they want it, its going like it or not.....

A work collegue had a similar incident, but fortunately the robbers found the keys to both cars without being distubed so no violence.

 

[Dieselman]

The report doesn't say the cars are being driven, but that they are going on another vehicle.

In reality the only alert is the alarm siren, if you cut the wires it won't go off. I won't say where it is but it could be got at by a professional thief.

They don't need to get into the car at all.

 

[glojo]

The report doesn't say the cars are being driven, but that they are going on another vehicle.

In reality the only alert is the alarm siren, if you cut the wires it won't go off. I won't say where it is but it could be got at by a professional thief.

They don't need to get into the car at all.

Hi dieselman,
I'm sure everyone agree's car alarm's are seen as a nuisance by most people that hear them.

If you have followed this thread the thing that is most noticeable is the fact that the E-class is innocent. False press reports, dodgy key cutters that could not cut a ppiece of cotton with a scapel. There are a 1001 imaginative suggestions that are 'interesting' BUT these cars sadly are being stolen to order by evil people that will either drag the poor driver out of the car, or steal the owners keys. Yes the central locking engages at 10kph, but drivers have been either intimidated into opening the door or a window has been broken to get access to an occupant. (usually the driver)

Regards,
John

 

[marce430]

Its possible...

Hi,
My understanding is that it is possible to program additional keys into W210 cars..... the owner would never know. But that assumes its done by someone with access to the Can bus in the car.

I'll tell you about my 1999E240 being stolen if your interested.

 

[fred_raven]

e class keys

just like to pass this on - silly women bashed my e class - small dent - next day elec ignition system failed - ins co say no connection - some chance - has now taken me one month to get this replaced and new keys through mercedes via an indepependant - a month !

 

[Cclass guy]

Hi,
My understanding is that it is possible to program additional keys into W210 cars..... the owner would never know. But that assumes its done by someone with access to the Can bus in the car.

I'll tell you about my 1999E240 being stolen if your interested.

I thought only the old E class key can be programmed, well do tell

 

[Dieselman]

Vehicles with electronic keys can have upto seven keys activated / deactivated.
The dealer can do this but needs the car to be able to match the key to the vehicle.

It sounds like an inside job if a car is stolen using a key.

 

[mark.t]

if you loose a key the dealer can de-activate the keys....but as mentioned the dealer would need both car and spare key....would it be poss to clone a key while the car was in for service...???

 

[glojo]

if you loose a key the dealer can de-activate the keys....but as mentioned the dealer would need both car and spare key....would it be poss to clone a key while the car was in for service...???

Hi Mark,
I was of the opinion that for at least the 211 these keys had to be ordered via the dealer, but I stand to be corrected.

John

 

[Benzowner]

Recently ordered a new key via the dealer for a W210 estate, needed log book and driving licence as proof of ownership of the vehicle. All he needed was the chassis number or VIN number to order replacement keys. If a dealer or anyone at a dealer was, shall we say a little bent, it would not be difficult to get replacement keys as most of the info needed to order the keys is on the vehicle. There may be security flags at Mercedes if any one dealer was ordering a lot of replacement keys, but who knows?

 

[glojo]

Recently ordered a new key via the dealer for a W210 estate, needed log book and driving licence as proof of ownership of the vehicle. All he needed was the chassis number or VIN number to order replacement keys. If a dealer or anyone at a dealer was, shall we say a little bent, it would not be difficult to get replacement keys as most of the info needed to order the keys is on the vehicle. There may be security flags at Mercedes if any one dealer was ordering a lot of replacement keys, but who knows?

Hi Geoff
Thanks for confirming my previous opinion. If a key were to be ordered by a 'bent' (not 'bent', bent, but bent) employee, then surely there will be a paper trail??? Only certain employee's can order stores and they have to do it via the stores computer??

Thanks for the post,
John

 

[Swiss Toni]

I am aware of a nearly-new SL stolen from the owners drive.

It was recovered by Police - the method of theft was a Dealership employee supplying keys "to order". The employee provided owner details and a key for cars around the country - dunno how the scam came to light, but MB must have recorded all the replacment keys somewhere.

I needed a spare key for an SLK, and I needed all the documents, a wad of cash and a letter from my mum.

I guess no system is 100% foolproof (I faked the note from my mum and they didn't even check)....

 

[glojo]

I (I faked the note from my mum and they didn't even check)....

Takes me back to my school days, thanks for the post Toni, it confirms how easy it is to trace the person responsible for getting the 'spare' key.

There will always be someone stupid enough to actually order the key for a vehicle not belonging to them. The extremely difficult bit is to destroy the paper trail. No doubt it might be possible to destroy the trail at the dealer end, but it will still be very much alive at Mercedes-Benz!!!! Kind of stupid employee really.

Regards,
John

I hope you confessed your 'criminal' act to your mother

 

[Swiss Toni]

Actually, as was the case when I was at school, I got found out.

For some reason, when I copied the note provided for my sister (and changed the name) it didn't work....





"SWISS will not be able to do PE today, it is his time of the month"