E320 CDI Black Smoke wont stop

[jaymanek]

yes but dont underestimate local garages... most have now invested 1000's in the latest diagnostic equipement and spend even more on keeping them up to date... there are very few things that can only be diagnosed by a dealer...

 

[as355f1]

At the start of this thread you said that you could not afford to send the car to a main dealer. Hindsight is a wonderful weapon but it might have caused you less aggro and even cost you less money. The worry now must be that if your local guy still can't solve the problem you might end up at the dealership anyhow.

As somebody else has already said, so much on modern cars is computer controlled and needs computer diagnostics to identify and solve problems.

yes in hindsight maybe on this occasion i should of sent it to the main dealers but if they had the same problems finding the fault the bill would have been in the thousands and i have never used a main dealer @£120 per hour its a complete rip off compaired to the £20 per hour my local garage charges and he is also a diesel specialist with all the relevent testing equipment and 40yrs experience and up until now he has only charged me for parts, it does look like its the pump now that is cuasing it so unless i can find a second hand one its off to the auctions as i would imagine a new pump would be over 2 grand

 

[as355f1]

Turbo not burning oil is it?

turbo is fine no play at all and its black smoke, normally turbo smoke is blue or white

 

[as355f1]

Manifold.

could you expand a little ?

 

[fredfloggle]

could you expand a little ?

Well , assuming we are thinking along the same lines , a crack on one port , would lose boost pressure on that pot , and give an "over-rich" mixture on one or more pots , I suppose if it is loose enough the pressure gradient over the intercooler would allow the boost to be lost at the manifold , but still be detected at the pressure transducer (where is the pressure transducer ?) .

 

[nick mercedes]

could you expand a little ?

When I have seen smokey 320cdi it's always turned out to be the mainfold.

Either sticky flaps or just clagged up with gunge, the best solution always seems to be a new one.

 

[Dieselman]

Well , assuming we are thinking along the same lines , a crack on one port , would lose boost pressure on that pot , and give an "over-rich" mixture on one or more pots , I suppose if it is loose enough the pressure gradient over the intercooler would allow the boost to be lost at the manifold , but still be detected at the pressure transducer (where is the pressure transducer ?) .

I don't think this could happen, boost would either be there or not.

I would be thinking along the lines of either blocked Cat, losing boost due to leaky intake ducting after the turbo or faulty MAF.

The fuel pump doesn't directly control the injected fuel anymore, that is soley down to the ECU and injectors, unless it's sucking air which could cause problems.

What happens if there is no boost, i.e. the wastegate held open? If it still smokes it can't be anything to do with boost pressure.

 

[fredfloggle]

I don't think this could happen, boost would either be there or not.

I would be thinking along the lines of either blocked Cat, losing boost due to leaky intake ducting after the turbo or faulty MAF.

The fuel pump doesn't directly control the injected fuel anymore, that is soley down to the ECU and injectors, unless it's sucking air which could cause problems.

What happens if there is no boost, i.e. the wastegate held open? If it still smokes it can't be anything to do with boost pressure.

That is what I was getting at , if the manifold was cracked next to an inlet port , then the cylinder served would be running a rich mixture and might make smoke - as you point out , any blockage in the manifold would give the same symptons - it all depends on where the boost pressure is measured , before or after the blockage or leak . Low compression is also a possibility , as is injection timing - is there a crank position sensor , and could it be mounted wrongly ?

 

[Harley Man]

I had a problem like this on my C220Cdi and eventually found a small split in one of the turbo hoses which caused the ecu to overfuel the system.

 

[old smokey]

ditto

I too have the exact same problem with my E320 cdi. The symptoms are the same and having spent almost £500 up til now, I am getting quite frustrated.

First of all I was told the back exhaust box was choked with carbon as only half was hot when car was at correct temperature - new back box fitted; still the same! Changed air filter & had mechanic clean out the EGR valve, etc - no change!Then I was told it was the air mass meter - had full check over by the only diesel expert in Central Scotland who said there was absolutely nothing at all wrong with the car & the problem was due to my wife being the main user and only using the car for trotting around town! The car showed absolutely zero faults when linked to the diagnostic equipment. The diesel expert advised using additive in the diesel - no change after 300 miles of hard driving!

All that and no further forward - just a lot poorer! My own fault - should have went to MB in the first place.. I have always had diesel MB cars and thought they were the best cars on the road - starting to wonder now! When I bought my car earlier this year, I was swithering over a 320 cdi or a G Wagen - think I made the wrong decision. I looked at five cars over a period of 14 months, travelling all over the UK before settling for this one. What a let down as it is the dearest MB I've ever owned and the worst one.

They certainly don't make them like they used to.

I'm anxious to hear how as355f1 gets on.

 

[Dieselman]

Old Smokey
Try contacting jgevers of this forum. He has a diagnostics business and regularly gets MB diesels to do.
I can't remember where he is but think it's Perth.

 

[as355f1]

ok, after talking to several mechanics every one of them has said it must be injectors so i had the injectors removed again and sent them to a different place for testing, the results are 3 injectors are over 20% out and the rest are just in limit so im having the three repaired at a cost of £420 and hopefully this has been the problem all along i have everything crossed, i will let you all know the outcome as soon as they are refitted.

 

[Parrot of Doom]

Blimey, thats an expensive repair job isn't it? Check this out:

http://dieselgiant.com/mercedesinjectornozzlereplace.htm

 

[Dieselman]

That is the "old" pintle type injectors, not the sac hole typ-e used on CDi engines. They cost serious money and wear out about five times faster.

Sometimes cleaning Sac hole injectrs works as the holes become blocked as there is no pintle to clean them. This can be done using a garden sprayer and a 12volt connection to the solenoid. A badly spraying injector should be pretty obvious.

 

[as355f1]

Blimey, thats an expensive repair job isn't it? Check this out:

http://dieselgiant.com/mercedesinjectornozzlereplace.htm

if only i lived in america, and they were not 320cdi injectors he was working with, but yes its a very expensive repair job but thats rip off britain for you

 

[scgfull]

Hi,
After your Injection cleanup, has the car exhaust been significantly cleaner. :bannana:

 

[glojo]

if only i lived in america, and they were not 320cdi injectors he was working with, but yes its a very expensive repair job but thats rip off britain for you

Hi as355f1,
Or is it your fear of going to a main dealer? I understand your point about £100 per hour compared to perhaps £20, but you are then spending more time and indeed more money by not going to someone that knows there business. I am not running your so called expert down but why has he handed you back the vehicle without fixing it? Putting new bits in, then charging you is perhaps a licence to empty your bank account? I am not saying go to a main dealer, I am saying go somewhere that knows what they are doing.

Bosche dealership\franchise seem to have a very good reputation. Why not swallow your pride, take it somewhere else and simply show them the problem. If the symptoms are as bad as your describing then your exhaust system is also going to be choked with soot etc.

Regards,
John