E36 AMG Twin Turbo, has it been done successfully?

sagesingh

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I have searched alot for this with no avail, but still i do apologise if i have missed the answer somewhere.

short version: I have the an original hughes turbo technics conversion, but the engine is knackered, so i am going to get new engine for it. I know a conversion from a m104 e320 (HFM) to a c36 w202 3.6L AMG M104 is easily done. (engine, wiring harness and ecu, ignoring diff for now); however has anybody converted a 3.6amg to a twin turbo.

I have seen one member on another forum bored a 3.2 to a 3.5 but his a very big project, a cis conversion.

I also know another member thinking of doing this, but he never got around to it.

I have read odd comments that the 3.6 is 'not boost friendly' is that the reason why i cant much/any info on it.

is it possible??? ( i know im setting myself up with that question! what i mean is it possible to change over the engine and swap the TT parts also, add a SplitSecond additional injection controller, Air/fuel ratio meter, and MBC, and it work, or do i need engine work.???)
 
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sinewave

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I'm not an engine expert by a long shot but from what I know of Turbo engines they tend to have less compression on the heads and different cam profiles to a naturally aspirated engine so I'd have thought at the very least you'd be looking at some 'head work' as a min.
 
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sagesingh

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You were correct about the lower compression, but tt managed this by shortening the con rods slightly.

I had read the need for this can be overcome by using a spilt second aic, and setting the afr properly. if this is cannot be done I could swap the rods from the 320 to the 36 assuming they the same rods.
 

Dieselman

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It will be compression and knock is the issue, but couldn't you get round this by fitting a knock sensor and suitable ECU.

If the ECU is constantly retarding the timing to stop knock then you need to look at CR.

Keeping the charge temperatures right down and a good mixture will help a lot with knock.
 

grainqey

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the N/A cam profile will offer higher lift but you may need to alter the exhaust cam timing so the valve opens and closes very slightly earlier - like 2 teeth or something at most so you dont blow the mixture out the exhaust if you use the N/A cams (theres more cam overlap on an N/A engine for exhaust scavenging to pull the burnt gases out)

HTH
Alex
 

brigadier

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The concern imo is that the cylinder walls on 3.6 are thin which leads to blown HG under boost.
 

Dieselman

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The concern imo is that the cylinder walls on 3.6 are thin which leads to blown HG under boost.
Use an MLS or sold copper gasket. Copper is good as it dissipates heat from the head quickly having four times the thermal conductivity of steel.
 

carat 3.6

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A twin turbo 3.6 can be done but there is more work needed than on a 3.2 engine.

The T2 garret turbo's used in the turbo technics kit are not large enough for the 3.6 engine, so after around 4000rpm they become a restriction to the air entering the engine. You can get around that problem by fitting a pair of garret T25, or T28 turbos, which are large enough.

The turbo technics conversions used modified conrods to lower the compression ratio of the engine to avoid detonation, this is because the electronics supplied in the kit to control the extra injectors are not precise enough. Most people use the split second injector control device instead, which is able to control the injectors properly, so you no longer need to drop the compression ratio of the 3.2 engine.

However, because the 3.6 has a higher compression ratio that the 3.2, it will still need to be lowered even if you use the split second control unit. The modified conrods are no longer available, and do not fit the 3.6 engine anyway. When I built mine, I used a solid copper head gasket from ferriday enginering which not only drops the compression ratio, but also safegaurds against boost related head gasket problems.
 
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sagesingh

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A twin turbo 3.6 can be done but there is more work needed than on a 3.2 engine.

The T2 garret turbo's used in the turbo technics kit are not large enough for the 3.6 engine, so after around 4000rpm they become a restriction to the air entering the engine. You can get around that problem by fitting a pair of garret T25, or T28 turbos, which are large enough.

The turbo technics conversions used modified conrods to lower the compression ratio of the engine to avoid detonation, this is because the electronics supplied in the kit to control the extra injectors are not precise enough. Most people use the split second injector control device instead, which is able to control the injectors properly, so you no longer need to drop the compression ratio of the 3.2 engine.

However, because the 3.6 has a higher compression ratio that the 3.2, it will still need to be lowered even if you use the split second control unit. The modified conrods are no longer available, and do not fit the 3.6 engine anyway. When I built mine, I used a solid copper head gasket from ferriday enginering which not only drops the compression ratio, but also safegaurds against boost related head gasket problems.
thanks for this info, this is what i needed to know. By the sound of it i not going ahead then, a little too costly (money & time) for my right now. Going to get a 3.2L and just her up and running quickly.
 

Farmergeddon

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Have you taken a look at Turbo Bandits website in Scandinavia?
They will sell you a 3mm copper gasket to deal with the compression issue. It looks like they also have exhaust manifolds and intakes ready to go which all look pretty good quality. They are expensive but not overly considering what you will be buying (ie a non mass produced item).
I would say you would make some massive power gains but then you will have to be prepared to be considerate to the engine or it will go pop sooner or later.

The AMG hand built engines are strong but again you might start getting through them so using a cheaper more available base such as 280 might be better.
 

Bellow

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Anything that raises the head to lower the compression ratio will mess with the valve timing.
 

Farmergeddon

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Yes it will create tension on the chain. You would need to do a full build from the ground up to get everything spot on but this will be beyond the reach of many. There is no such thing as a free lunch unfortunately.
A turbo install can be done as a bolt on and still be reliable. It just depends how restrained you are willing to be with the Boost. Most people cannot resist turning it up that little bit more until eventually its snap crackle and pop!
 

RBYCC

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Agree with the T25 or T28 on the 3.6.
Wouldn't worry about compression ratio with the Split Second AIC1 firing the additional injector.
If you want an added safety factor install a water/meth injection to lower the charge air temp.
Would use something like a Hallman Pro RX manual boost controller to synch the two turbos and dial in boost.
I probably would run .4 to .5 bar on the stock internal 3.6.
It will make power more then comparable to a 5.4 NA AMG motor at the lower boost levels and will remain very reliable and within the limits of the chassis.
Mega power = no power if you can't get it down to the road....;)
 
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IanA2

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Following on from this I too have a TT kit. It's a Turbo Technics (which I think is also referred to as a Hughes kit), and I have been considering having it fitted to my M103 in a GES300. I say considering because of late several people who's opinions I listen to, are telling me that this is a daft/bonkers/insane (you get the drift!) thing to do. Is it?
 

jaymanek

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Its blooming fantastic... Finding someone to fit it for you who knows how to set these things up... well thats another story..
 
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sagesingh

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When it works, it is awesome, but it doesn't always work. Would defo say get the mbc and spilt second aic (which i am ordering in jan, let me who if you want one, we save on shipping :thumb:)
I learnt a lot about the kit and installing its whilst rebuilding mine (still in progress, getting to cold outside atm), but am by no means a system builder. although I'm very willing to help and send lots of pics if needed (mine is a m104 setup though).

find ed's posts, (rybcc) he knows a lot about the kits, also on another forum there is a built thread which will be helpful.
 

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