email track and trace help.

[ringway]

For years we have used a track and trace facility that allows us to know if and when the recipients of our emails has opened the message, how long they read it for, thier geographical location etc etc..

The only system we have used is from didtheyreadit.com. http://www.didtheyreadit.com/
We pay a yearly subscription for the service and it does work very well.

However, I was wondering if there are any better or more cost effective alternatives on the market.

I suspect MS Outlook may have this facility, but when we try to use outlook we get a message that says something like "you do not have an outlook account" and therefore we don't use outlook.

I'd be grateful for any opinions or advice on this matter.

Regards

Paul.

 

[Dryce]

I suspect MS Outlook may have this facility, but when we try to use outlook we get a message that says something like "you do not have an outlook account" and therefore we don't use outlook.

I'd be grateful for any opinions or advice on this matter.

This sort of service will use an embedded link to HTML or an image to 'track' that the message has been accessed.

Many mail readers will block these links by default. Some large security conscious organisations we work with would block the links on inbound mail.

I would not look kindly on dealing with an organisation or person that used this sort of service.

 

[ringway]

This sort of service will use an embedded link to HTML or an image to 'track' that the message has been accessed.

Many mail readers will block these links by default. Some large security conscious organisations we work with would block the links on inbound mail.

I would not look kindly on dealing with an organisation or person that used this sort of service.

The purpose of this facility is not unlike The Royal Mail Recorded Delivery Service.

We email around 90% of our purchase orders, quotations, invoices etc etc..

If we see that a purchase order or quotation has been opened and read, that is all we want to see - job done and peace of mind.

If we see an invoice has been opened and then call or email the customer for payment and they say " oh, we haven't had an invoice" then you have an idea that the customer is playing for more time, or is unable to pay for some reason or other. With the postal or fax system, you just could not get that sort of information.

We are not spying on people. It just saves calling people to confirm they received that all important document.

Imagine placing a very important (deadline sensitive) purchase order to your supplier for your best client and assuming your supplier had received that purchase order, only to be told when it is too late that they didn't receive it

That is why we use the system.

We don't use it on personal emails as a rule. If I send Fred the new Big Hooters Pirelli Calender I DO NOT want to know how many times he looks at it

We recently had quite a large order for a construction company that I didn't like the look of (had to do the order as we were recommened by a good client of ours) and with the help of track and trace we were able to get paid before (I suspect) things went pear shaped

It's a valuable tool.

 

[Dryce]

We are not spying on people. It just saves calling people to confirm they received that all important document.

The problem is not that you're spying but that you are engaging a third party organisation and passing information and valid email addresses to them.

I took a quick look at the site for this company and their privacy policy / Ts & Cs protect *you* but are distinctly silent on protecting your clients' privacy.

So there's a not unreasonable chance that your clients may be receiving targeted spam to their email addresses as a result of your interaction with them and this tghird party intermediary.

 

[stats007]

Imagine placing a very important (deadline sensitive) purchase order to your supplier for your best client and assuming your supplier had received that purchase order, only to be told when it is too late that they didn't receive it

In the olden days we used to pick up a thing called a telephone and confirm the order was received .

 

[Benzowner]

In the olden days we used to pick up a thing called a telephone and confirm the order was received .

In the even older days, the order was placed by telephone then confirmed in writing, making a note of the name of the person the order was placed with. If it was an important delivery requirement, a little note on the order "time is the essence" always worked, although I don't think that is a legal statement anymore.

 

[kwakdonut]

In the olden days we used to pick up a thing called a telephone and confirm the order was received .

An old-fashioned practice sadly lacking in today's 'have-it-done-yesterday' society!

 

[ringway]

Your send a confirmation email to your garage confirming your car is booked in for a service (you spoke on the phone about this.)

In the email you also state that the car engine has started vibrating between 3 - 4000 rpm and ask for this to be looked at.

Car serviced, one week later cam belt snaps = New Engine...

Ask garage if they checked it, they don't recall it being mentioned

Check track and trace email, it was read once or twice by them

Very useful tool.

Also, the didtheyreadit organisation would be out of business if they were associated with spamming etc.. It would be easy to find out if they were connected with any malpractice.

However, one iteresting thing to point out is that some of our emails take a strange path sometimes.

I could send an email to someone in London which I could see has been read - job done.
However, on the odd occasion that email could be read in Illinois or another location that has no connection with the recipient.

I may be wrong, but this may be due to counter terrorism/fraud...

 

[Sp!ke]

I get prompted when an email demands a read reciept. I usually deny the request.

I agree with others that have said that using a third party like this is an invasion of privacy. If I discovered a company doing this, I would seriously consider looking for a new supplier.

If you want proof that an invoice was received. Send a Fax.

You could turn on read receipts in Outlook but that too many people dislike.

 

[ringway]

I think track and trace is very common these days.

It is not possible to detect by the recipient.

However, there are some emails that are read by the recipient, but not notified as being read by the track and trace so there are some barriers in place, although surprisingly, not at many of the bigger organisations

As I mentioned earlier, the objective is to confirm that the email has been read - Job Done. (You can stop receiving notifications at the touch of a button.)

We did an installation for a (non-English) premiership footballer in his swimming pool that had every liklihood of deteriorating due to the humidity and chlorine in the pool area. We really didn't want to carry out the works because of those risks.

We explained verbally (and gave physical product demonstrations) to his agent (spoke reasonable English) about the probability of the installation becoming faulty but he insisted the work be carried out.

We sent an email detailing the risks which was opened and read.

Had they not read that email and the installation deteriorated (cost thousands) it would be their word against ours, and if we were to lose the battle and thousands of pounds after adamantly pointing out the risks, that would be unfair.

But we have proof that the email was read and that gave us the peace of mind to carry on with the project.

This isn't spying, it is a way of confirming what has been agreed by both parties should problems arise with the works in the future. (No sign of any problems yet I'm pleased to say thanks to the advice to keep the area well ventilated.)

Although I don't use it, PDF tracking is also available.

In a situation where you sent an important PDF document, say, your company accounts, supplier records, or customer lists via email to a trusted recipient and was then alerted that a competitor or another unwanted reader had opened the document, surely that would be valuable information to have?

 

[Dryce]

It is not possible to detect by the recipient.

It's very easy to detect.

It's just done with a link to a tiny image. By default decent mail readers will block these from the message and prompt the user for permission.

It's the same underlying technique that spammers and marketers use to confirm that their emails have been read (it confirms the email address is active).

But consider what you are actually doing. You are passing information (including possible appended replies) with embedded names and numbers to a third party that then allows them to gain information from the unwitting recipient.

You have an agreement with the third party organisation that may protect you from the use of the data as it pertains to you. The recipient is just as exposed as you are but has no such agreement or protection.

Now if I were setting up such a service my Ts & Cs would be very very explicit about the rights of both the sender and the recipient. The Ts & Cs with the organisation you use omit any protection for the recipient AFAICT and that stinks big time and should set of warning bells because it is highly unlikely that the omission is accidental.

I think you're over-confident about the legal aspect as to confirmation that the email has been read or not. It just gives you confidence to confront the recipient with the 'evidence'. Would it stand in court? If you are really that worried then you need to get *explicit* confirmation back from your clients before proceeding with work.

The PDF tracking will be equally vulnerable to blocking. And the protection you assume from unwanted access is at best limited and in practical terms near non-existent.

And you say it's not spying? I think it falls bang smack in the middle of any reasonable definition of spying unless you explicitly state in your message that the recipient is being 'watched'. You're hiding something in an email that is specifically there to leak information from the recipient about their activities without their knowledge - unless you make such a declaration.

So do you warn recipients that you you are tracking when the message was read, how long it was opened, and where they might have been when they viewed it? Im assuming you don't. That's unethical.

 

[Spinal]

Wow - I'm really surprised none of your clients have complained so far!

Not only do we strip ANY embedded images from incoming emails, in many cases we also send a fake bounce if the images came from a URL that's in our blacklist.

The system that didtheyread it is identical to that used by most spammers - you embed a tiny image (usually a 1x1 pixel transparent gif) with a unique string in the URL, e.g. http://www.mytracker.com/23840928022904. When the image is downloaded by the client, the server does a lookup on the accessing IP - not a very reliable system!

If they are using Outlook 2007 for example wont tell you how "long" they read the email, nor how many times... it will download the image once, close the connection to the server and cache the image for future use...

If they are using any form of internet protection, it's highly likely that the image will get blocked - and your email viewed as spam by a whole array of automated antispam systems...

As for the legal side of things, don't you need to warn people you're tracking them? Also, the evidence wouldn't hold a penny in court... what's to say that your clients email server downloads and caches all image by default?

As a general rule, tracking people online is viewed as a bad idea, and companies who do this are seen as "evil" - nomatter what your motivation is!

M.

 

[SimonsMerc]

We did an installation for a (non-English) premiership footballer in his swimming pool that had every liklihood of deteriorating due to the humidity and chlorine in the pool area. We really didn't want to carry out the works because of those risks.

We explained verbally (and gave physical product demonstrations) to his agent (spoke reasonable English) about the probability of the installation becoming faulty but he insisted the work be carried out.

We sent an email detailing the risks which was opened and read.

Had they not read that email and the installation deteriorated (cost thousands) it would be their word against ours, and if we were to lose the battle and thousands of pounds after adamantly pointing out the risks, that would be unfair.

But we have proof that the email was read and that gave us the peace of mind to carry on with the project.

You have no proof of any kind. You have information that a computer somewhere parsed the email that was sent and retrieved the hidden embedded link. This is not proof that anything was read, and if the company selling you these services tells you that it is they are lying. Most importantly, this will not stand up in a court of law if it comes to that. It is still your word against theirs.

If you want proof of them having been notified of something, get them to sign that they have read it. In ink, on paper.

 

[andy_k]

Unethical, unwelcome and probably illegal (spying). Any company that sends emails out like that would be one I would refuse to do business with if their emails got past the spam filter.

Interestingly enough Trend Anti Virus blocks access to their site classing it as 'dangerous' so it's obviously on their list of recognised spammers.

As others have said, a phone call works wonders

 

[Spinal]

Just thought I'd check from work - both our internet filtering systems (one based on ISA with a bought white/blacklist and one based on Bloxx) block their site (spyware).

I don't have a "trackable" email from them, so I'm signing up for a trial account and will report back...

M.

EDIT: Just tried... our email filtering system flags it a "Dangerous: Potential Spyware" but still lets it through... it does strip whatever is used for tracking though as I can't get any information off their site (email comes up as "unread") and looking at the source code of the email in my inbox it comes up as text only...

 

[andy_k]

Just thought I'd check from work - both our internet filtering systems (one based on ISA with a bought white/blacklist and one based on Bloxx) block their site (spyware).

I don't have a "trackable" email from them, so I'm signing up for a trial account and will report back...

M.

EDIT: Just tried... our email filtering system flags it a "Dangerous: Potential Spyware" but still lets it through... it does strip whatever is used for tracking though as I can't get any information off their site (email comes up as "unread") and looking at the source code of the email in my inbox it comes up as text only...

Makes you really want to invest in their software doesn't it?

As a footnote, any company which sends me mail that get's flagged as dangerous/spyware/phising etc goes straight to the junk mail folder - not the best way of guaranteeing it gets read.

 

[Benzowner]

Anything as important as has been said, I would put in writing to the customer with a note at the bottom asking him to sign that he received our letter and return a copy to us, forming part of the acceptance of order/contract. I certainly would not rely on emails, nor would I rely on just sending them a letter.

 

[Sp!ke]

I've just tried it myself and the email gets blocked by Proofpoint so the email was never delivered.

I'll try and check the proofpoint logs later to see what the flag was in detail.

 

[ringway]

Well,

This is an eye opener.
I had no idea that this product was so dodgy.

I think we may have to stop using it because of the issues raised on here.

If anyone does manage to get any further information or results I be interested to read them.

I didn't have much insight into the technical side of how the product worked and purchased the product purely as a delivery notification service.

Did they get that quotation/invoice/purchase order.. Yep, great, job done. That was why we purchased the product.

 

[crockers]

A Question- if you write to a client (via email) stating a specific point and have proof that he has read it. Can your copy be edited afterwards so that it says something different? If so what legal proof is there that what was said in the original email is part of a contract?

I don't know if it can be edited - so raised this question.