Eu Tightens Screws On Emissions.

[hawk20]

NEW EU Emissions rules

According to an article in the latest AutoExpress (reviewing the Polo Bluemotion and other economy super-minis) new EU legislation demands that manufacturers reduce the average CO2 output of their model ranges to 130g/km by 2012. Last year, it was 160g/km.


This may not seem to matter much until you realise that not a single petrol-engined Mercedes can meet that standard.

In fact, the only car in the range I can find that will meet the standard is the manual A160cdi. At 128g/km it just squeaks in but only if you stick to steel wheels or small alloys. Several optional alloys tilt it over the barrier to 137g/km). Nothing else will do.

OK, technology marches on and new engines will clearly come and help to meet the standard BUT to get the whole Mercedes range down to an average level of emissions no worse than a 160cdi A class is a really tall order.

Unfair too. Manufacturers specialising in small cars will find it easier to meet the regs – like Peugeot, Citroen, Renault, Fiat, Ford and VW. But anyone doing mainly big cars like Mercedes will have a real battle to meet the standards.

 

[jeremytaylor]

It can and will be done. Look at the emissions of BMWs new twin-turbo 4-cylinder in the 123d Coupe. Oh, and it's still 0-60 in 7 secs or thereabouts.

Clever German engineering means that we will continue to be able to have our (diesel) cake and eat it!

 

[fuzzer]

bmw are whipping the mercedes engines just now on emissions!

Check out the 530i petrol and look at the 350 petrol mercedes and see how much greener the grass is

 

[verytalldave]

I cannot understand why cars are being targeted so unfairly. There are other, much larger contributers to the general world pollution scene, yet these seem to carry on with little or no financial penalty.
I must imagine if you own a large car, enjoy a smoke and nice glass or two of single malt, you must feel like going into a dark corner and ending it all.

 

[fuzzer]

I cannot understand why cars are being targeted so unfairly. There are other, much larger contributers to the general world pollution scene, yet these seem to carry on with little or no financial penalty.
I must imagine if you own a large car, enjoy a smoke and nice glass or two of single malt, you must feel like going into a dark corner and ending it all.

the other things that cause polution don't have big reflective plates with a unique number to collect money from

 

[hawk20]

It can and will be done. Look at the emissions of BMWs new twin-turbo 4-cylinder in the 123d Coupe. Oh, and it's still 0-60 in 7 secs or thereabouts.

Clever German engineering means that we will continue to be able to have our (diesel) cake and eat it!

Yes I looked. It says the manual is 138g/km so not quite good enough to meet 130. No auto available that I could see. However if go to the 120d that is just OK in manual at 128 but way outside on auto.

The new BMW engines are a lot less emissions than their previous ones. The new Merc engines-especially the diesels come next year and Merc say they will be the cleanest and most economic around. But nobody is within a country mile of having a range of luxury cars, especially autos anywhere near the figure required. And only 5 years to do it. Momentous times.

 

[fuzzer]

they don't need to meet it with the lux cars. BMW will be able to get away with this as they own mini and this should bring their average down.

DC own smart and thus the same with them too , altho the smarts CO2 isnt anything to write home about with the size of the engine / car.

 

[merc man]

id like to see how this will effect the busses! as they are just the worst co2 offenders, but guess who will be paying for all that!

anyway the carbon footprint issue is a cloudy issue and cars seen to be targeted as its where the money is, as opposed to cows and methane..

 

[hawk20]

What worries me is that at the moment BMW have one car that meets the new rule (manual 1 series) and Mercedes have 1 car (manual A class). None of the rest of their range are within a country mile of the necessary figures. Bureaucrats have taken a huge leap of faith that, technology exists, or will, at affordable prices to achieve the figures they have decreed. And will do so in only 5 years.

 

[timskemp]

The new BMWs have stop-start to meet the emissions regs. Diesel Hybrids are going to be the way forward, I believe both Munich and Stuttgart are pinning near future hopes on an integrated auto transmission and electric motor.

Bear in mind that the CO2 target is never going to be applied as a blanket thing whatever the threat - otherwise Ferrari, Aston, Landrover etc would be out of business as there's less hope for them than there is for Mercedes.

Also bear in mind MB could include smart sales in the numbers...

 

[hawk20]

The new BMWs have stop-start to meet the emissions regs. Diesel Hybrids are going to be the way forward, I believe both Munich and Stuttgart are pinning near future hopes on an integrated auto transmission and electric motor.

Bear in mind that the CO2 target is never going to be applied as a blanket thing whatever the threat - otherwise Ferrari, Aston, Landrover etc would be out of business as there's less hope for them than there is for Mercedes.

Also bear in mind MB could include smart sales in the numbers...

Personally I cannot see the hugely loss-making Smart car surviving. They've dropped the roadster, dropped the forfour, and binned the 4x4 version. Short road to nowhere IMO.

Interesting to see if the rule is applied or not. I wait with bated breath.

The BMW stop/start system interests me a lot because I had a long chat with a dealer. a) only works for manual cars so not much use in luxury market and b) he siad most owners will switch it off as it involves sitting in neutral at traffic lights with the engine stopped. It restarts when you depress clutch to go back into gear by which time others will be gone. Not likely the dealer said to appeal at all to BMW owners or mini owners BUT it gets round CO2 emissions and gives lower tax etc, he said.

If this is true the govt should ban any device that can be switched off -- ban it for use in the emissions and economy tests.

Also find the hybrid thing interesting. Lexus dealer said not one customer had managed to get near the claimed economy figures with their hybrid. An engineer told me that he thought it could be because they go for the economy testing with the batteries fully charged -not in average charge. And no allowance is made for fact that it takes fuel to get up to speed so that regenerative braking can charge the batteries when slowing down. AutoExpress tried cars against claimed economy figures and the PRIUS hybrid showed the biggest gap between claims and reality. Anyone technical know the truth on these issues.

 

[marcos]

I still believe that global warming is made up by goverments purely as a reason for taxation.
There is a very interesting discussion on Sky news about it at the moment, remember we are still coming to the end of an ice age so of course things are going to heat up.
I wait for the beating from you lot on this

 

[hawk20]

I still believe that global warming is made up by goverments purely as a reason for taxation.
There is a very interesting discussion on Sky news about it at the moment, remember we are still coming to the end of an ice age so of course things are going to heat up.
I wait for the beating from you lot on this

I think they may be misguided but I do think they believe it.

 

[timskemp]

I still believe that global warming is made up by goverments purely as a reason for taxation.
There is a very interesting discussion on Sky news about it at the moment, remember we are still coming to the end of an ice age so of course things are going to heat up.
I wait for the beating from you lot on this

No beating for me, for the evolutionists out there the scientists believe the climate has constantly changed and life on earth has evolved to live with it.

For the creationists who cares, we all go to be with the creator anyway!

 

[Robbo]

Mercedes will have no trouble meeting this emissions target. You obviously havent seen this development car

 

[Colin_b]

Peronally, if the government really believed that 'CO2 is the greatest threat to mankind', they'd stop burning fossil fuels for producing electricity and heating, and build lots of nuclear power capacity. No tax revenue in that, though.

 

[hawk20]

Peronally, if the government really believed that 'CO2 is the greatest threat to mankind', they'd stop burning fossil fuels for producing electricity and heating, and build lots of nuclear power capacity. No tax revenue in that, though.

Pretty clear the govt is keen to replace some nuclear capacity but is worried it may lose some votes for doing so. That's democracy!

However, it now looks as though the biggest threat to car lovers like us may come from Europe. Smart cars all round, eh?

 

[crockers]

I too don't believe that global warming is due to carbon increases. Core samples from the antartic have proven that carbon levels follow 50 years BEHIND global temperatures therefore not producing temperature changes.

I can remember the 70's when we all thought we were heading for a new ice age.

BUT the carbon / global warming bandwagon is great for business. Employs loads of people and allows the Govt reasons for applying new taxes.

AND....what we do in the "west" to reduce carbon levels is a waste of time when China is commissioning a new coal fired powerstation every 10 days.

Oh well....end of rant......plus giving Al Gore a Nobel prize is just taking the proverbal p*ss.