EURO NCAP to change safety rating system

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by grober, Nov 16, 2008.

  1. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    Euro NCAP the organisation which rates car safety using their star system is to introduce a new safety rating system for NEW models tested in 2009. Unfortunately they have no plans to "rerate" existing car ratings using the new system meaning a 5 star rating pre 2009 will be different to a 2009 5 star rating. One major change will be the incorporation of ESC systems- quote " it will be impossible for a carmaker to achieve five stars in the tested vehicle without the standard fitment of electronic stability control (ESC) in the majority of variants sold". http://www.euroncap.com/Content-Web...-scheme-2009-five-stars-impossible-witho.aspx
     
  2. st4

    st4 Banned

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    Electronic safety control is good safety feature but it can easily be switched off.

    NCAP IIRC don't test roll overs, and the effect of rear impacts. I'd like to see those too. I would like to see tests done at high speeds (100kmph and 160kmph) even if they just serve as an educational lesson. I am sure that a 5* 211 and a 5 * clio will differ in performance in crash at higher speeds.
     
  3. KillerHERTZ

    KillerHERTZ Administrator Staff Member

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    I still find it amazing that they dont test rear impacts!
     
  4. raymont

    raymont Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Yes you can turn ESP and the like off. You can also not wear a seat belt or have your head rest positioned correctly.

    You could legislate the manufacturers have to fit ESP, which would be a good idea, and you could legislate that there could be no off button.

    5* 211 and 5* clio differ in crash performance at any speed. NCAP ratings are only comparable with vehicles in the same group.
     
  5. Benzowner

    Benzowner Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Considering that on estate cars, children usually ocupy the rear facing seats. Will they also include 4x4's or do they include these already?
     
  6. wemorgan

    wemorgan MB Club Veteran

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    Whilst not the same as a structural rear impact test, here are the results Thatcham have for their whiplash test.

    Also, as part of EU legislation all cars need to pass a rear impact test of a 1100kg rigid trolley impacting the stationary vehicle at 38kph. Some OEMs voluntarily increase this to 1800kg at 50kph. Though this is a more structural & fuel integrity test rather than occupant injury assessment as seen in EuroNCAP.
     
  7. st4

    st4 Banned

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    How, its an absolute rating meaning that any 5* car is safer than a 4* car as each one is scored upon the various loads applied to the occupants upon impact. The car is driven into a wall at 40mph
     
  8. KillerHERTZ

    KillerHERTZ Administrator Staff Member

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    4-Star Audi Q7 destroying a 5-star Fiat 500
     
  9. st4

    st4 Banned

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    Ah, but the cars are crashed into a barrier at the set speed, not other moving obstacles moving at speed.

    NCAP scores would lead me to the impression that if I were to hit a wall at 40mph in a Fiat 500 I'd suffer less injury than if I did so in a Q7. It gives me no data on how i'd fare vs other cars.
     
  10. wemorgan

    wemorgan MB Club Veteran

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    Yes, that's absolutely correct and a point I don't feel is fully appreciated by some consumers.

    Within a single EuroNCAP vehicle category it is possible to speculate how two vehicles may perform in a head to head offset frontal impact.

    But, it is also possible to compare all cars tested in EuroNCAP to a single vehicle frontal impact. This is because, like you said, the EuroNCAP ratings are based upon measured values of injury criteria of the occupants.

    So why is it not possible to derive how two dissimilar vehicles would perform in a head on collision from their EuroNCAP scores? Different vehicle masses would apply more/less energy as tested in EuroNCAP. Different ride heights would cause the vehicle's to be loaded and deform differently as tested in EuroNCAP.
     
  11. raymont

    raymont Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    This from the ncap web site:

    Can results be compared between groups?

    No. Results should only be compared within the same group. The frontal testing method mirrors a crash between two similar sized cars. A heavier car or one with a higher structure will tend to have an advantage if it impacts a smaller car. The Euro NCAP results cannot be used to predict the outcome of such crashes.



    The car is not driven into a wall. It is driven into a deformable blck which is supposed to simulate the effect of a collision with another vehicle in the same class,i.e. large 4x4, supermini etc.

    If you want to read more go here:

    http://www.euroncap.com/Content-Web....aspx#faqf6e05c00-233b-438a-b41e-a4b02f4f2873
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2008
  12. OP
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    grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    Update

    As an update to this thread there are now a series of videos on the EURONCAP site depicting how various cars behave when they undergo a standard ESC test[ accompanied by a quaint warning sound track!] You don't want to watch this with a hangover by the way ! :doh:What is really telling is the behaviour of the cars with it switched on and off! The Mercedes E class system seems to perform particularly well. More video of other models here. ESC performance | Euro NCAP - For safer cars crash test safety rating [YOUTUBE]kpZO4CxpFcg&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]
     
  13. lancebond

    lancebond Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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