EV ship on fire . An Australian comments

[markjay]

It would be a case of collateral damage in the event,
but my thinking was for those in a life raft. Their changing location can be identified speedily, aircraft can be on seen within hours. But I'm not aware they could perform the rescue, and other ships may be days away.
And that assumes reasonable weather conditions.

Unless the vessel was drifting significantly off-course before the evacuation (and which can happen), the ship would be sailing along the international shipping routes, and so another ship will likely be hours and not days away.

Main Maritime Shipping Routes:

This is an incredible visualization of the world's shipping routes

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(The Titanic was sailing along such route, and the SS Californian was nearbyabd saw the emergency flairs, but failed to take action for reasons that have been well documented)

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

He tells some unfortunate truths about EV fires . He does say the cause of the fire may not have even been an EV , but the results are devastating

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There aren’t many people I can’t take to, and he’s one of them.

 

[markjay]

I don't disagree, it's similar to an air crash compared to the greater road deaths.

And I suppose it depends where you look for your news, but I wasn't aware of the understated number of EV's on the "Dutch Oven" till I saw the clip this morning, it actually seems less news worthy, even though it has become more so.

Latest updates here:

Deadly cargo ship fire still burning on vessel carrying 500 electric vehicles in North Sea

In audio of an emergency call reportedly made from the stricken vessel, someone can be heard saying the blaze "started in the battery of an electric car."

www.cbsnews.com

 

[st13phil]

What would happen if t'were in Eurotunnel ?

The people, the cars, the train, the damage to the tunnel infrastructure?

There have been a number of fires in Eurotunnel:

• In 1996 which burned for over seven hours on 18th November
• In 2006 which closed the tunnel for a short period on 21st August
• In 2008 which burned for sixteen hours on 11th September
• In 2012 which closed the tunnel for a short period on 29th November
• In 2015 which burned the midsection of Running Tunnel North on 17th January

None resulted in loss of life, but repairs have been expensive with the 2008 incident alone costing around €60 million to fix the damaged tunnel lining.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

There have been a number of fires in Eurotunnel:

• In 1996 which burned for over seven hours on 18th November
• In 2006 which closed the tunnel for a short period on 21st August
• In 2008 which burned for sixteen hours on 11th September
• In 2012 which closed the tunnel for a short period on 29th November
• In 2015 which burned the midsection of Running Tunnel North on 17th January

None resulted in loss of life, but repairs have been expensive with the 2008 incident alone costing around €60 million to fix the damaged tunnel lining.

Understood, but these were presumably fires on “old fashioned” vehicles, although some may have been infrastructure. We’ve seen how powerful and persistent EV fires are.

Judging from the shipping catastrophes they seem to present infernos beyond the spec of existing on board fire extinguishing tech.

 

[st13phil]

Understood, but these were presumably fires on “old fashioned” vehicles, although some may have been infrastructure. We’ve seen how powerful and persistent EV fires are.

AFAIK, they all started on lorries - so yes, "old fashioned vehicles", but it was reported that the 2008 fire reached 1,000 degrees celcius!

Good point well made about the persistence of EV battery fires and their resistance to "regular" firefighting technologies. I know that Eurotunnel ask a specific question as to whether a vehicle is an EV or not when you book, but I'm uncertain as to any particular mitigation action that happens for EV's.

 

[fabes]

Lloyds of London where this will have been insured, some of the cargo as well, will get to the bottom of it.
If they believe they have to bump up the risk factor and premiums, it won't make EV's any cheaper to buy....

A dedicated compartment with hi expansion foam added to a modified sprinkler system could be a sensible approach to suppressing the fire and potentially saving the vessel, or a sealed area with reduced O2 levels (that'd be fun to manage though on a boat
Those are solutions in use in other Li ion exposures....

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

But you can't stop progress,
although that would slow it for a while, until the masses are persuaded that new safety measures would prevent a reoccurrence, or they forget.

Yes, progress is unstoppable.

 

[markjay]

Yes, progress is unstoppable.

View attachment 144058

View attachment 144059View attachment 144060

You left out this?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I did think about a photo of Air France 4590 in flames, but thought it best left.

To be fair, that was just shoddy maintenance, which could never happen to Eurotunnel.

There's a risk management thing about risks being predictable but unlikely until they happen. Like Fukushima or Chernobyl

 

[whitenemesis]

This doc makes interesting reading concerning recovery of damaged EVs

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1059083/recovery-_operators-working-with-electric-vehicles.pdf

 

[grober]

For our younger forum members

Torrey Canyon oil spill - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

and those a bit younger

Deepwater Horizon explosion - Wikipedia

and uncomfortably close to home for many

Piper Alpha - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

just saying that dealing with/transporting concentrated sources of energy is always hazardous-its a caculated risk/reward equation

 

[Ardwick]

This doc makes interesting reading concerning recovery of damaged EVs

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1059083/recovery-_operators-working-with-electric-vehicles.pdf

Interesting read. Perhaps this might be true, especially as the Government don't seem to be trying to sell any safety products as a by product of their guidance

 

[Petrol Pete]

Here is a thing . This burning mess was on it's way to Singapore (apparently) via the Suez canal . Just imagine if it had burst into flames while in one of the locks .

Last time a ship lost the plot in one of the wider channels the world supply chain took a $hit. A ship on fire with absolutely no way that the Egyptian authorities could put it out then going down and 'resting' in the shallow (8M) deep lock would cause international havoc. It would take many months to cut it up and open the canal.

I wonder if the owners of the Suez canal are having a bit of a re think about allowing EV cars and/or batteries passing through their infrastructure .

 

[Petrol Pete]

" For our younger members"

As Bad as these incidents were , it was oil , a natural product made up of dead dinosaurs and the forests that they lived in . Yes wildlife was the ultimate loser in these incidents , along with shareholders (who no one gives a F about) But No one has an oil refinery in their garage . But many have an EV.

 

[grober]

" For our younger members"

As Bad as these incidents were , it was oil , a natural product made up of dead dinosaurs and the forests that they lived in . Yes wildlife was the ultimate loser in these incidents , along with shareholders (who no one gives a F about) But No one has an oil refinery in their garage . But many have an EV.

How many people have been killed or their home destroyed by an EV in their garage in the last 3 years?
The far more commonly installed domestic Natural GAS on the other hand???????

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Of course EVs present a fire risk and its right to draw attention to the subject but a sense of perspective is necessary to avoid the accusation of bias when assessing this newer domestic risk in comparison to other existing forms of energy

 

[Petrol Pete]

Not sure anyone has ever been killed by a brand new (and of properly serviced) domestic boiler.

These burning cars were brand new, un used.

Just saying that if the utopian dream of EV's for all is to become reality something has to be done now to find a way to put them out when they catch fire.

Airlines , train/subway , bus companies and owners of private offices and flats world wide are banning E scooters and bikes on their transports and in their buildings in ever increasing numbers.

It's only a matter of time before Home insurance companies start taking a dim view on home owners charging/storing them indoors.

Assessing risk.

 

[markjay]

I don't know if statistically EVs are more likely to catch fire than ICE cars, but certainly once an EV is on fire (and regardless of how or where the fire originally started), it poses a very different challenge to firefighters to that of a burning petrol tank or burning Diesel oil (the latter is particularly nasty, BTW).

I just wonder what precautions do EV battery factories take? How is the finished product stored and how is it being transported? They must have a similar safety level to that of factories making fireworks....

 

[grober]

It's only a matter of time before Home insurance companies start taking a dim view on home owners charging/storing them indoors.

Assessing risk.

Maybe stop changing the goalposts.
The discusssion has moved from maritime mass transport of EVs to individual domestic garage EV hazards to unlawfull/unlicenced use of small E scooters and bikes. All to be covered by the meme "EV's are dangerous" ---my reply "compared to what?"

 

[clk320x]

Pretty much all the data shows an EV is far less likely to catch fire compared to an ICE…. yes the fires need to be dealt with in a different way, but I am sure as they become more popular fire fighting methods will be adapted to suit…

Data from Sweden;

Only 23 fires were reported in electric vehicles in 2022 making up just 0.004% of Sweden’s fleet of 611,000 EVs.

In contrast, over the same period, some 3,400 fires we reported in 2022 from Sweden’s 4.4 million petrol and diesel cars representing 0.08% of the fossil car fleet.

That’s a 20x difference…

Make of that what you will…

A lot of scaremongering out there by those who seem to be clutching at straws to persuade themselves away from EV…