Has UK enough generating power for electric cars , heat pumps and all other requirements

[KennyN]

We are £280 pm for our gas + leccy and that is with triple glazing .

We had a new gas boiler fitted last year at £3500 thinking it would save us some cash , just as the utility prices shot up , i dread to think how much our gas would cost at todays prices if we still had our old boiler.

We were talking in work today about how cold it has been up here and how it has struggled to realistically get above 8 degrees over the last six months , no wonder our gas bill is so large.

K

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

What was the cost of replacing the boiler, and had the old one died?
Interesting about the airing cupboard - that's similar to @Dryce 's earlier point about 'wasted' energy from less efficient lights/appliances providing some degree of heating.

I think it was £8k back in 2020. Had we delayed replacement, the cost of replacement would have risen in line with inflation.

Don't have the annual fuel savings to hand. Obviously they would have been higher these last two years.

Generally, new boilers are normally reckoned to save 30% pa.

Yes, the heat loss previously warmed the airing cupboard and our unoccupied fourth floor and roof space.

 

[BTB 500]

SWMBO refuses to use our tumble dryer. She's now a washing line addict.

It's good to have Staff.

I've never owned a tumble dryer. Always used a washing line in decent weather or indoor airer. My first flat had one of these in the kitchen ... ancient tech but very handy:

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Joking aside, in Germany they have all sorts of rules that apply now when you buy a house ... the heating, insulation, etc. have to meet all sorts of standards. This has seriously affected the market for older properties due to the cost (and inconvenience) of doing this ... it's easier to just buy a newer place that already complies.

TBH, I was joking about Scotland, rolling it in with new building standards in Germany and the Scandi nations where they do heavily insulate their homes, triple glaze their windows and double glaze their garages.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I've never owned a tumble dryer. Always used a washing line in decent weather or indoor airer. My first flat had one of these in the kitchen ... ancient tech but very handy:

View attachment 154680

We had a hanging airer in our last house but I had it taken out.

Much better for her to have the exercise from walking outside. Got to look after the old girl.

We only have the tumble dryer because it had been installed by the previous owner of the house.

 

[SpikyMikey]

I've never owned a tumble dryer. Always used a washing line in decent weather or indoor airer. My first flat had one of these in the kitchen ... ancient tech but very handy:

View attachment 154680

Mrs Spiky's Scots grandparents had one....a "pulley" iirc

 

[markjay]

Can use a dehumidifier. It will work well in the confined space of an airing cupboard. Certainly much better than a tumble dryer.

But then the saving on gas consumption gets added to the electricity bill...

 

[BTB 500]

I think it was £8k back in 2020. Had we delayed replacement, the cost of replacement would have risen in line with inflation.

Don't have the annual fuel savings to hand. Obviously they would have been higher these last two years.

Generally, new boilers are normally reckoned to save 30% pa.

You mentioned a projected annual gas bill of £950 now. If that reflects 30% better efficiency from the new boiler then you're saving around £400 a year vs the old one. So a payback period of roughly 20 years, when the new boiler has an expected lifespan of 10-15 years?

 

[BTB 500]

Mrs Spiky's Scots grandparents had one....a "pulley" iirc

We've had utility rooms in our last 2 houses ... I put up 4 lines running across them just below ceiling level. You need quite substantial fittings and strong (steel cored) line, but they're very useful.

 

[st13phil]

But then the saving on gas consumption gets added to the electricity bill...

…and UK domestic electricity costs roughly four times the cost of domestic gas per unit of energy.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

You mentioned a projected annual gas bill of £950 now. If that reflects 30% better efficiency from the new boiler then you're saving around £400 a year vs the old one. So a payback period of roughly 20 years, when the new boiler has an expected lifespan of 10-15 years?

Aye, but that type of calculation ignores inflation AND cost of capital, so the payback is longer than that - on simple numbers

We had it done for two reasons.

Boilers were "falling over" around the development, with people were spending money on repairs and eventually replacement.

Secondly, we found a central heating contractor who was recommended as being reliable and effective - a rarity down here - so we gave him the job.

So it was a preventative maintenance decision to "replace now," rather than after "wasting money" on expensive repairs and maybe paying over the odds when the boiler fails, which usually happens in October, when the Central heating boys are busy and can go OTT on quotes.

 

[DrNick]

…and UK domestic electricity costs roughly four times the cost of domestic gas per unit of energy.

But dehumidifiers typically run at about 200w compared with several kw for gas boilers. It’s like comparing ovens with air fryers!

 

[st13phil]

But dehumidifiers typically run at about 200w compared with several kw for gas boilers. It’s like comparing ovens with air fryers!

Oh, true enough and my comment was just about the relative cost of domestic electricity vs domestic gas. As a general principle, gas as a domestic heat energy source is far cheaper than electricity by a factor of around 4:1

 

[markjay]

Oh, true enough and my comment was just about the relative cost of domestic electricity vs domestic gas. As a general principle, gas as a domestic heat energy source is far cheaper than electricity by a factor of around 4:1

We should also keep in mind that gas is fuel, not energy (or, rather, it's stored chemical potential energy), and between the gas meter and the heat generated you also need to burn the fuel and incur some energy losses. When it comes to electricity, the loss between the meter and the electric consumer is less than 1%.

 

[DrNick]

Oh, true enough and my comment was just about the relative cost of domestic electricity vs domestic gas. As a general principle, gas as a domestic heat energy source is far cheaper than electricity by a factor of around 4:1

But heat pumps run typically at a 4:1 efficiency ratio so that brings it down to the same price per kw of actual heat. You’d be mad to heat your house on resistive electric as you effectively point out. However, run a well installed heat pump and the price is the same, and that’s before you start playing the tariff game. Heat is heat, however it’s generated.

 

[st13phil]

But heat pumps run typically at a 4:1 efficiency ratio

Point taken, but only with ambient temperatures of circa 8c and upwards; the CoP drops significantly once ambient temps drop below zero. This is for air-source pumps, of course.

Ground-source pumps are a better bet, but the ingoing cost is significantly higher.

 

[Dryce]

But dehumidifiers typically run at about 200w compared with several kw for gas boilers. It’s like comparing ovens with air fryers!

This isn't a valid simple comparison.

The heat leaked from a a boiler that might have warmed a traditional cupboard is a loss - only part of the total consumption of the boiler.

A humidifier is an additional load.

 

[DrNick]

This isn't a valid simple comparison.

The heat leaked from a a boiler that might have warmed a traditional cupboard is a loss - only part of the total consumption of the boiler.

A humidifier is an additional load.

The original discussion was in response to the below, which disagrees with your point - a boiler was changed and the "useful" hear loss disappeared, so the dehumidifier is not an additional load compared with what was there originally. MiW didn't want a dehumidifier to replace the functionality of the airing cupboard though, which is up to him. I was merely making a suggestion to overcome a non-intended consequence, which would give back the functionality without using up much of the 30% saving on the gas bill.

It isn't a simple comparison though - depends on what you are trying to show!
MikeInWimbledon said:
When we changed our 20 year old boiler in 2020, our annual gas usage dropped by a third. Which was nice.

Octopus project our bill for 2024/5 to be £950. (6 bed house)

Sadly changing the boiler eliminated the dry heat in our airing cupboard because there's no heat loss from the boiler and hot water tank. Modern boilers don't leak heat.

 

[m80]

SWMBO refuses to use our tumble dryer. She's now a washing line addict.

It's good to have Staff.

In Buxton we use the washing line to wash the clothes,
it's in the name.

On the heat bit, the reason we 'ave loadsa kids is for the communal heat. We 'aint as daft as ya think.
We don't all share the same bed though, that's them other, different, northern cultures.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

In Buxton we use the washing line to wash the clothes,
it's in the name.

On the heat bit, the reason we 'ave loadsa kids is for the communal heat. We 'aint as daft as ya think.
We don't all share the same bed though, that's them other, different, northern cultures.

Mum was one of nine.
Saved on the coal
(And they couldn’t afford SKY)