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Hydrogen power internal combustion engines

Toyota and Yamaha are working on a hydrogen-powered V8 engine

Yamaha%20V8%20hydrogen-powered%20engine.jpg


Toyota and Yamaha are working on a hydrogen-powered V8 engine | Auto Express

Modified version of the 5.0-litre unit found in the Lexus RC F will produce 444bhp – all without using a drop of petrol
www.autoexpress.co.uk www.autoexpress.co.uk

Yamaha has managed to screw 444bhp from its hydrogen V8 engine, which is only 13bhp less than the unit produces when powered by petrol. Interestingly, though, the unit develops 540Nm of torque – which is 20Nm more than the standard powertrain.

Hydrogen engines house the potential to be carbon-neutral while keeping our passion for the internal combustion engine alive at the same time. Teaming up with companies with different corporate cultures and areas of expertise as well as growing the number of partners we have is how we want to lead the way into the future.

—Yamaha President Hidaka at the Nov 2021 venue
 
Really, it isn't.
Conventional 180 bar gas racks weigh 100kg for every 1kg of H2 carried and 1kg of H2 has the energy value of 3.5l of petrol. Plasma Kinetic's system only matches that. Toyota does better with 700 bar storage with a 5kg (petrol equiv 17.5l) capacity weighing in at 97kg. That's 97kg of carbon fibre. Multiply that by 5 to keep a 5 litre V8 juiced.
 
"Hydrogen is all set to play a major part in the zero-emission future of passenger cars"

A quote from the above link which I wish was true but I'm afraid I don't really believe the hype. Hydrogen is far too expensive a solution and more than a decade behind in terms of infrastructure. Being a technically better solution than EV's won't mean it succeeds for passenger cars but I do see it working in some applications like trucks.
 
You are probably right. I also don’t see why we would want to burn hydrogen in a complicated ICE. Go for a fuel cell.

The best tech doesn’t always win. Betamax was higher quality than vhs but didn’t win. Video2000 was even better but no one has even heard of that.

Things always change though. VHS is consigned to history and even it’s replacement is on the way out, superseded by a completely different way of watching video now.
Maybe 10 years down the line some obscure technologies will mature and come together to allow a completely different method of transport. Maybe quantum entanglement will lead to a matter transporter? Or this stupid metaverse idea has some legs and noone will need to go anywhere!
 
190 said:
"Hydrogen is all set to play a major part in the zero-emission future of passenger cars"

A quote from the above link which I wish was true but I'm afraid I don't really believe the hype. Hydrogen is far too expensive a solution and more than a decade behind in terms of infrastructure. Being a technically better solution than EV's won't mean it succeeds for passenger cars but I do see it working in some applications like trucks.
Click to expand...
Yep....all the money is already in EVs....no one is going back now. Not to mention (unless someone has already mentioned it....I only skimmed the thread) hydrogen takes tons of energy and makes lots a carbon to manufacture.....so it might be close to Zero at the tailpipe....but its far from Zero overall.
 
Here is a thought, hydrogen as stated above creates a lot of carbon to manufacture, how does that stack up against building an ev battery and then disposing of depleted lithium?
 
Wolfie1 said:
Here is a thought, hydrogen as stated above creates a lot of carbon to manufacture,
Click to expand...
It doesn't have to. Electrolysis methods have improved and when powered by renewables no CO2 is created. The thinking - or hope - was that hydrogen could be produced from renewables in periods of lower electricity demand (a situation no battery manufacturer would accept). All very laudable but the storage issue persists.
Wolfie1 said:
how does that stack up against building an ev battery and then disposing of depleted lithium?
Click to expand...
About the same as far as I can see, both fighting for the same electricity - but without the mining and disposal issues in hydrogen's case.
 
So a “for the planet” viewpoint hydrogen is better that ev technology and yet its being pushed as the green go to, cant make this shit up! There is definitely a hidden agenda for the push in battery powered vehicles somewhere that we are not seeing! As thats the whole reason for the demise in conventional fuel powered vehicles, the green factor!
 
Hydrogen just isn't ready to produce a lot of energy in a low-carbon way yet; maybe in 10-20 years it will have matured such that policy-makers can back it. In the meantime EV works (of course, with much debate about use cases, etc) so it has been backed by government policy.
 
Bellow said:
It doesn't have to. Electrolysis methods have improved and when powered by renewables no CO2 is created. The thinking - or hope - was that hydrogen could be produced from renewables in periods of lower electricity demand (a situation no battery manufacturer would accept). All very laudable but the storage issue persists.

About the same as far as I can see, both fighting for the same electricity - but without the mining and disposal issues in hydrogen's case.
Click to expand...
Lithium batteries are soon to be history anyway....they are all working on lithium free cells now with many just about ready for use. Cobalt is a bigger polluter to mine than lithium....also in EV batteries. University of Texas at Austin researchers created a new sodium-based battery material a couple of years back that is highly stable, capable of recharging as quickly as a traditional lithium-ion battery and able to pave the way toward delivering more energy than current battery technologies.
 
It looks like JCB are betting the farm on Hydrogen for their machinery.

Really interesting Harry's Garage edition that's worth watching to the very end:
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Thats great news, JCB have been developing this for some time and will be a global leader in the technology. There arguments stack up and given the size of the company, they have to make it work. Their strategy is to convert to hydrogen and not battery power vehicles equipment for the long term.

Although the technology isnt new. BMW had a V12 engine in the early 2000's BMW Hydrogen 7 - Wikipedia

Batteries are a stop gap. Fast refueling is the only way to convert the masses. Hydrogen can deliver this.


Just last week Leicester Forest East services switched off all their EV chargers due to insufficient capacity on their electricity supply. We will see more of this.

Once they invest in green hydrogen production, we will look back on the battery era as with a certain amount of comedy value " what were we thinking""
 
Never happen on road cars....not in my lifetime at least and certainly not until we have more renewable electricity that we know what to do with (if that ever happens). Making hydrogen takes massive amount of electricity, electricity that far more efficient to use powering cars directly that creating more loses putting it through another, very inefficient process. Too much time and money has been spent on EVs and is being spent on their infrastructure to go back now......much as I like the idea and its pretty much sticking with ICE cars I just cant see it happening. How many times over the last fifty or sixty years has hydrogen been the next big thing?.....and how many times did it happen?....quite.
Common sense must tell you that using one fuel to (inefficiently) make another fuel is never going to be greener.....especially when the fuel you make has so many losses when being used as it will only have about the same thermal efficiency as burning petrol...about 40% percent of the energy it contains goes into making the car go forward in a petrol car (55 to 60% in a diesel) due to losses such as heat/noise. As much as I dislike EVs, electricity is a very efficient way of moving a car.....being about 85 to 90% efficient.
But I'm probably wrong eh....so I will just sit back and wait for all the hydrogen cars and fuel stations to appear !!!....but I wont be holding my breath. However for vehicles that cant recharge.....like planes, ships etc....hydrogen does have possibilities.
 
Do you have a fuse box in the bonnet compartment? If so, all you need do is find a permanent live in there (multimeter again unless the battery is totally flat)) and connect the positive terminal of your battery charger or charged battery to that, and the negative to an earth under the bonnet, and that should do the trick.
 
ALFAitalia said:
Never happen on road cars....not in my lifetime at least and certainly not until we have more renewable electricity that we know what to do with (if that ever happens). Making hydrogen takes massive amount of electricity, electricity that far more efficient to use powering cars directly that creating more loses putting it through another, very inefficient process. Too much time and money has been spent on EVs and is being spent on their infrastructure to go back now......much as I like the idea and its pretty much sticking with ICE cars I just cant see it happening. How many times over the last fifty or sixty years has hydrogen been the next big thing?.....and how many times did it happen?....quite.
Common sense must tell you that using one fuel to (inefficiently) make another fuel is never going to be greener.....especially when the fuel you make has so many losses when being used as it will only have about the same thermal efficiency as burning petrol...about 40% percent of the energy it contains goes into making the car go forward in a petrol car (55 to 60% in a diesel) due to losses such as heat/noise. As much as I dislike EVs, electricity is a very efficient way of moving a car.....being about 85 to 90% efficient.
But I'm probably wrong eh....so I will just sit back and wait for all the hydrogen cars and fuel stations to appear !!!....but I wont be holding my breath. However for vehicles that cant recharge.....like planes, ships etc....hydrogen does have possibilities.
Click to expand...

We've had hydrogen road cars (albeit fuel cell rather than internal combustion) for a good few years - Toyota's Mirai has been on sale since 2015 and is onto a second generation now. The Hyundai Nexo has been on sale since 2018, and a new fleet of hydrogen powered double-decker buses went into service in London a few years ago (single-deckers were being trialed there as far back as 2004).

I certainly agree that scaling up to support common and widespread usage would present some significant challenges though.
 
Dont be so sure, Toyota have developed the Mira (followed one on the motor way last weekend) , BMW have technology ready to go. As do Hyundai and kia., Have you heard of River simple?? Home

The amount of energy going into battery production is easily the same if not more than it would be to produce hydrogen. Hot climates can easily produce it from solar, Nuclear etc. Its the most abundant element there is, limitless supply.

Battery technology simply exports the harmful emissions to far away lands, (not in my back yard) where the rare earth metals are mined at huge environmental damage, we just don't see it here. And its getting more and more difficult to find and mine.

Its only Elon musk who made the battery car "trendy" and people jumped on the band wagon... Until Telsa came along Ev's were not popular at all. Elons energy is focused elsewhere now so it will be interesting to see what happens.

It will be a while yet for sure..
 
What nonsense.....nearly everything in that post is factually incorrect or outdated. I hate EVs with a passion.....but hydrogen is not the answer for road cars at least not yet...and I doubt it will be in my lifetime, if ever.....not to mention how dangerous it is to move and store.

I'll leave you EXPERTS to it!!
 
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