Hydrogen powered car!

[uumode]

erm.. a BMW that is
http://www.whatcar.com/news-article.aspx?NA=223033

 

[BonzoDog]

Mercedes have been hydrogen running buses on test in several cities around the world for the past two years. I sometimes get one to work - double eco points.

 

[Dieter]

Hi BD,

Nil points, in fact.

How do you think the hydrogen is purified and stored (only liquid @ -252.88°C) in the first place? cos it certainly ain't free (yet).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_hydrogen)

Yup, you got it. Energy comes from fossil fuels.

Once we can use solar/wind/nuclear energy to produce H2 we'll be getting somewhere.

Cheers,

 

[Shude]

Hi BD,

Nil points, in fact.

How do you think the hydrogen is purified and stored (only liquid @ -252.88°C) in the first place? cos it certainly ain't free (yet).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_hydrogen)

Yup, you got it. Energy comes from fossil fuels.

Once we can use solar/wind/nuclear energy to produce H2 we'll be getting somewhere.

Cheers,

The two places that are currently pioneering hydrogen use are a little place in/near Japan and somewhere like Iceland, where hydrogen production is free courtesy of free geothermal power. This was covered on Fifth Gear recently

Electric powered cars are still more efficient though!

 

[Sp!ke]

Electric powered cars are still more efficient though!

And electric cars are less efficient than a well designed petrol engine. Think about the recycling costs and manufacturing costs of those batteries every three years... plus we still use fossil fuels to produce the electricity in the first place from which to charge these cars.

 

[Shude]

And electric cars are less efficient than a well designed petrol engine. Think about the recycling costs and manufacturing costs of those batteries every three years.

I would like to see this measured and compared scientifically. Petrol engines are laughably inefficient compared to electric motors but this is only a fraction of the overall system.

plus we still use fossil fuels to produce the electricity in the first place from which to charge these cars.

I have little choice in how the power company produces electricity. I don't know where my electricity comes from but right now I think it's from the nuke in Heysham, AFAIK that's not considered "fossil fuel" although it probably should be.

 

[wallingd]

http://www.channel4.com/4car/di/road+test/driving+impression/4994/1

 

[uumode]

http://www.channel4.com/4car/di/road+test/driving+impression/4994/1

Hmm so the advantage is almost zero CO2 emissions at the cost of:-
'..the fact that you can't park it in a garage for fear of escaping hydrogen building up and exploding. And that hydrogen kept at -253deg C will slowly boil away. BMW says it'll lose half its tank in nine days.

And let's not forget the engine gets through hydrogen rather quicker than it does petrol: we burnt 30 quid's worth in 60 miles, at least double what it would have cost in petrol.'

Pedal power for the time being then

 

[l5foye]

3-4 years ago, I was in Germany and saw a hydrogen powered BMW 7. It had just returned from Saudi Arabia from testing. I asked the BMW executive -why Saudi Arabia? He said the car was doing about 5 mpg (equivalant) on the hydrogen and BMW reckoned the Saudis could live with that!

 

[BenzComander]

If you think about the evolution of the car, with it's internal combustion engine etc, then we really have not come very far in the last 100 years. If the PC had evolved at that rate we would all still be looking at black screens with little green flashing cursors!

I am not saying that there is a conspiricy within the car/fuel industry, but when you stop and think about it, it does seem they are dragging their feet with bringing new more environmentaly sound ideas to the table

 

[Dieter]

Hi,

It's nice to get backed up by the BBC.

"And when hydrogen is produced this way, well-to-tank and tank-to-wheel analysis shows the overall carbon dioxide emissions from hydrogen powered cars can be higher than that from petrol or diesel powered vehicles." from

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6154212.stm

Cheers,

 

[BonzoDog]

Hi BD,

Nil points, in fact.

How do you think the hydrogen is purified and stored (only liquid @ -252.88°C) in the first place? cos it certainly ain't free (yet).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_hydrogen)

Yup, you got it. Energy comes from fossil fuels.

Once we can use solar/wind/nuclear energy to produce H2 we'll be getting somewhere.

Cheers,

Null points - good point. So they will have to fit sails, solar panels and all passengers will be asked to pedal.

 

[Dieselman]

And electric cars are less efficient than a well designed petrol engine. Think about the recycling costs and manufacturing costs of those batteries every three years... plus we still use fossil fuels to produce the electricity in the first place from which to charge these cars.

I agree with Shude here. Electric motors are between 80-90% efficient. The controllers are about 95% efficient and the battery losses are small with the right batteries.
There are batteries that can las the life of the car and be recharged to 90% in 5 minutes.

A petrol engine can only be 25% efficient at best so it's hard to see how electric vehiclescan be worse.
Also to get the same performance from a petrol engien you need three times the power of an electric motor so a larger less efficient engine.

If one buys their electricity from a "green" provider it will be generated by either wind or hydro power. This is available commercially so is low emission.

 

[Thmsshaun]

Yes a petrol engine itself may well be less efficient than an electric motor. The problem with the electric motor is the energy needed by the fossil fuel to generat the electricity. Unless you hook the car up to a wind turbine in your back garden.

 

[Dieselman]

Standard fossil fuel power station are meant to be in the order of 30% efficient so your argument holds good but given that the petrol for your engine has to be refined and transported you should deduct all the inefficiencies. I think you will find that well to wheel the petrol engine is one of the worst performers available.

Green energy is available from your regular electricity supplier, all you need is a pen to sign the document.