Idiot

[markjay]

Does he also coast downhill with the engine switched-off....?

 

[Williamwoo]

So that other drivers will know that I'm not turning left. If I intend to turn left and there is no indication, it could be that I've simply forgotten to do so, or I could be one of the many bozos who simply don't bother to indicate at all. If I indicate right, that's a positive indication that I'm not leaving the roundabout at the next exit.

Yes, I agree it's annoying when people don't indicate at roundabouts (and elsewhere). However, I also think it is misleading to indicate something and then not do it!

 

[219]

It seems to me the overtaker commited an offence passing on chrevons. I head for the door.

If the chevrons are bounded by a solid line then it is unlawful to enter them since it is an extension of the double line system .

If they are bounded by broken lines it is not unlawful to enter them , but you do so at your own risk , bearing in mind they are there to separate opposing traffic , and if anything happens this will be taken into consideration .

 

[renault12ts]

If going straight on at a roundabout the correct indication is none...until past the exit before your exit, then indicate left.

If I see someone approaching from my right with no indicators on then I assume they are going straight past me. If they then turn left before they reach me...no problem, they should have indicated this...but no accident should occur.

 

[st13phil]

If the chevrons are bounded by a solid line then it is unlawful to enter them since it is an extension of the double line system .

If they are bounded by broken lines it is not unlawful to enter them , but you do so at your own risk , bearing in mind they are there to separate opposing traffic , and if anything happens this will be taken into consideration .

It amazes me the number of people who don't understand the distinction between ghost islands bounded by broken, or unbroken white lines.

Something else to note (especially when on two wheels) is that the road surface of ghost islands even if bounded by broken lines is not routinely driven over so is often covered in dirt, grit, gravel and other debris, and grip may be compromised.

 

[219]

If going straight on at a roundabout the correct indication is none...until past the exit before your exit, then indicate left.

If I see someone approaching from my right with no indicators on then I assume they are going straight past me. If they then turn left before they reach me...no problem, they should have indicated this...but no accident should occur.

Quite - and if I see someone approaching me from 12 o'clock on a roundabout and trafficating right , they are telling me that they will turn right across me , so I slow or stop as required to give way ; if they then 'change their mind' and go straight ahead I find it more than a little annoying that they have wasted my time and fuel .

Also consider that a pedestrian waiting to cross the straight ahead exit may see a car approach and signal right then start to cross the road , only for the car to then head straight for them !

Worse than that , I now encounter some of these numpties when I am following them onto a roundabout : if they are in the right lane and trafficating right I will perfectly reasonably deduce that they are turning right , and if I am going straight ahead I may start to pass them on the left - if they then try to also go straight ahead they get a sustained blast of the horn , and in the event of a collision would be at fault for giving a misleading signal ( which would be evidenced on my dash cam ) .

I have seen mostly younger drivers , and even some driving school vehicles , doing this , so presume it is some 'dumbing down' instruction being incorrectly given to novices .

I have checked with a friend who is a DVSA senior examiner and he confirms it is contrary to DVSA policy and that he would fail anyone who did this on a driving test since it can mislead and endanger other road users .

 

[del320]

Does he also coast downhill with the engine switched-off....?

And what's wrong with that?

I well remember in the fifties when the old man would habitually turn off the engine on the Standard Vanguard and we would coast silently down Glen Croe from the top of the Rest And Be Thankful for four miles to Ardgarten

I'd be about six, sitting on the front seat armrest in direct line of the divided windscreen.

Everything is so namby-pamby nowadays...

 

[del320]

It amazes me the number of people who don't understand the distinction between ghost islands bounded by broken, or unbroken white lines.

Something else to note (especially when on two wheels) is that the road surface of ghost islands even if bounded by broken lines is not routinely driven over so is often covered in dirt, grit, gravel and other debris, and grip may be compromised.

Pontoneer and I discussed this topic some years ago with the police driving instructor who took us on a buttock-clenchingly high speed drive from Tullieallan.

I recall when I momentarily had my eyes open, that roadmarkings were of little consequence!

 

[219]

And what's wrong with that?

I well remember in the fifties when the old man would habitually turn off the engine on the Standard Vanguard and we would coast silently down Glen Croe from the top of the Rest And Be Thankful for four miles to Ardgarten

I'd be about six, sitting on the front seat armrest in direct line of the divided windscreen.

Everything is so namby-pamby nowadays...

Or indeed , I can recall my dad taking me to the Electric Brae and slipping the car into neutral so that it would coast 'uphill'

 

[littleowl]

As a motorbike rider it's ingrained into me that any car coming up to a side junction will just pull out, so am always prepared! Once when I was learning, I was going through a local village and saw a BMW 4x4 approach a side junction to my left. I thought 'I bet it pulls out'. So I adjusted my speed accordingly, covered the brake and sure enough the female driver pulled straight out without stopping or even looking to her right!!! I rode up close to her side door on purpose to see the look on her face when she did finally look, and she nearly died. It was a good thing for her sake I was not an artic driver who was texting on his phone ....

I mean, why would you turn right out of a side road without looking right - I can't get my head around that one

 

[E55BOF]

Quite - and if I see someone approaching me from 12 o'clock on a roundabout and trafficating right , they are telling me that they will turn right across me , so I slow or stop as required to give way ; if they then 'change their mind' and go straight ahead I find it more than a little annoying that they have wasted my time and fuel.

Better that than be T-boned, perhaps? I know which I would prefer...

Also consider that a pedestrian waiting to cross the straight ahead exit may see a car approach and signal right then start to cross the road , only for the car to then head straight for them !

Do give me some credit for observation, and awareness of what is going on around me.

Worse than that , I now encounter some of these numpties when I am following them onto a roundabout : if they are in the right lane and trafficating right I will perfectly reasonably deduce that they are turning right , and if I am going straight ahead I may start to pass them on the left - if they then try to also go straight ahead they get a sustained blast of the horn, and in the event of a collision would be at fault for giving a misleading signal ( which would be evidenced on my dash cam )

Deduce whatever you like; I don't make many deductions based on a belief that others will follow the Highway Code. It comes of being a biker for many years. What will you deduce when you see my left indicator come on?

I strongly suspect that if I am in the right-hand lane, going straight on, and start to indicate left as I pass the exit before the one I am about to take, you will not be passing me on my left unless you are really trying, and in any case I will know you're there. Again, do give me some credit for observation, and awareness of what is going on around me; that includes awareness of numpties sticking rigidly to the Highway Code whatever the circumstances, or making assumptions based on the belief that others are doing so.

That's a very German attitude: "I am following the rules, I have right of way, so if an accident occurs, I will not be in the wrong". Personally, I'd rather not have an accident...

You should try driving in South-East England; a significant proportion of drivers are licensed on the basis of having foreign licences, and the rules of the road, if any, must be very different where they learnt to drive. They've never even heard of the Highway Code, let alone read and followed it.

I have checked with a friend who is a DVSA senior examiner and he confirms it is contrary to DVSA policy and that he would fail anyone who did this on a driving test since it can mislead and endanger other road users .

And so, indeed, can failing to indicate at all. The problem is, if a driver does not indicate, you do not know whether that is deliberate, or incompetent; all you know for sure is that his or her intentions are unknown. In view of the standards of driving we see nowadays, I suggest that making any assumption that the Highway Code is being or will be followed is more likely to 'mislead and endanger other road users' than how I use my indicators.

 

[John]

As a motorbike rider it's ingrained into me that any car coming up to a side junction will just pull out, so am always prepared! Once when I was learning, I was going through a local village and saw a BMW 4x4 approach a side junction to my left. I thought 'I bet it pulls out'. So I adjusted my speed accordingly, covered the brake and sure enough the female driver pulled straight out without stopping or even looking to her right!!! I rode up close to her side door on purpose to see the look on her face when she did finally look, and she nearly died. It was a good thing for her sake I was not an artic driver who was texting on his phone ....

I mean, why would you turn right out of a side road without looking right - I can't get my head around that one

I did something similar a couple of years or so ago. A lady pulled out barely checking right and mostly checking left for her eventual joining of that lane.

I ensured I braked in such a way to make it look like I only just stopped in time - when I was already pre-empting it and could have stopped well before.

I figured she could do with a shock as to what could have happened, especially with a baby in a child seat in the back.

The look of fear and surprise on her face hopefully means she will look more closely next time.

 

[markjay]

An Alpha-male on a bike is a recipe for a short life......... you just can't survive if you are not willing to let other road users do as they please without getting upset about it.

 

[John]

An Alpha-male on a bike is a recipe for a short life......... you just can't survive if you are not willing to let other road users do as they please without getting upset about it.

Is this a general comment or does it apply to anyone specific?

 

[markjay]

Is this a general comment or does it apply to anyone specific?

It applies to anyone who takes to the road. But bikers are more vulnerable.

 

[RonFleet]

Same where I live- it's a given that at least one elderly driver every day will pull out right in front despite there being no traffic behind me. Decision making process clearly erodes as you age. Hope I recognise the potential danger when I'm in that position.

I know two elderly drivers - one is 85 and the other 92. They both drive very well and pretty swiftly. They're both very aware of what's going on around them and prove that poor driving isn't necessarily related to age.

 

[E55BOF]

Quite true, but most of the pootlers on the roads seem to be past the first flush of youth.

 

[219]

Better that than be T-boned, perhaps? I know which I would prefer...

I would prefer that the other driver knew the correct signals to give , and did so .

Do give me some credit for observation, and awareness of what is going on around me.

I’m not particularly aiming at you , but in general people who drive poorly are poor drivers with poor observation skills .

Deduce whatever you like; I don't make many deductions based on a belief that others will follow the Highway Code. It comes of being a biker for many years. What will you deduce when you see my left indicator come on?

If you were in the right hand lane trafficating right then it is perfectly reasonable for me to deduce that you are turning right , and perfectly reasonable for me to take the left lane to exit straight ahead . I was a biker too in years gone by , but regardless of vehicles , if a right turner ( who has clearly and unequivocally told me he is turning right , both by signalling and by road positioning ) suddenly changes course and endangers me , they will get a horn warning and I will take evasive action , which will depend on the relative positions of each vehicle , but in the event of a collision there is no question that the right turner would be held at fault .

I strongly suspect that if I am in the right-hand lane, going straight on, and start to indicate left as I pass the exit before the one I am about to take, you will not be passing me on my left unless you are really trying, and in any case I will know you're there. Again, do give me some credit for observation, and awareness of what is going on around me; that includes awareness of numpties sticking rigidly to the Highway Code whatever the circumstances, or making assumptions based on the belief that others are doing so.

If you’re in the right turning lane , trafficating right and there’s another lane to the left for going straight ahead , I will already have planned to take that lane and hardly need undue haste to do so , although I generally drive to make reasonable progress and will take advantage of gaps as and when they appear .

While your observations may be OK , I make no assumptions about other road users I don’t know , and the sad truth is that many are unaware of anything outside of their little tin box .

That's a very German attitude: "I am following the rules, I have right of way, so if an accident occurs, I will not be in the wrong". Personally, I'd rather not have an accident...

I’d like to think that all of us would rather not have an accident , but doing something that is clearly wrong hardly helps in that ambition , and when it comes down to it the person who followed the rules will be held to be in the right and not the person who broke them .

You should try driving in South-East England; a significant proportion of drivers are licensed on the basis of having foreign licences, and the rules of the road, if any, must be very different where they learnt to drive. They've never even heard of the Highway Code, let alone read and followed it.

Hence it always pays to watch what the other guy is doing and anticipate.

And so, indeed, can failing to indicate at all. The problem is, if a driver does not indicate, you do not know whether that is deliberate, or incompetent; all you know for sure is that his or her intentions are unknown. In view of the standards of driving we see nowadays, I suggest that making any assumption that the Highway Code is being or will be followed is more likely to 'mislead and endanger other road users' than how I use my indicators.

Actually , not giving any signals at all is better than giving misleading ones since by definition it leaves other road users wondering where you’re going and exercising caution rather than misdirecting them by signalling that you’re going one way when in fact you’re going somewhere else .

 

[John]

Actually , not giving any signals at all is better than giving misleading ones since by definition it leaves other road users wondering where you’re going and exercising caution rather than misdirecting them by signalling that you’re going one way when in fact you’re going somewhere else .

I personally prefer that. Don't bother and I will work it out - although it sometimes means unnecessary braking if you can't tell where the hell they are headed!

 

[E55BOF]

On a roundabout I will be in the most appropriate lane for the manoeuvre, unless of course there is no other traffic about, in which case it's irrelevant what lane I use or what indication I give. I signal right until I am passing the exit before the one I intend to take, then I signal left. I think that makes more sense than not signalling, for the reason I have already given; not signalling if you intend to go straight on is a stupid convention in today's traffic, settled on years ago when traffic was much lighter.

I say again: The problem is, if a driver does not indicate, you do not know whether that is deliberate, or incompetent; all you know for sure is that his or her intentions are unknown. What the Highway Code says is irrelevant if he or she is not following it.

Still, I'll try not signalling at all, and see how many times I am cut up, hooted or flashed at, and how many times some bozo drives out in front of me... No, you're right, I won't; unless, of course, I buy a BMW...

Good luck with your perfectly reasonable deductions, Derek; I'll see you in my mirrors. You really ought to come down to London and try going round Hyde Park Corner a few times, entering and leaving by different roads each turn; that would be a real eye-opener. I'd get a prescription for some tranquilisers first, though.