Joining a dual carriageway or motorway

[John]

I very rarely have to brake for anyone in lane 1 because I am usually able to join lane 2 when I see cars on a slip road because I am way ahead observing what is in lane 2 before I even see the slip road.

If I can't join lane 2, I drop speed to allow them to merge easily so I never have to brake.

 

[alabbasi]

I've had two recent cases of cars attempting to join the dual carriageway as I was driving along in the left lane. They both seemed to expect, and try to force me to move into the right hand lane to let them in. In both cases the right hand lane was occupied.

Have others here had the same thing happen?

My understanding is that they need to give way to me...is that correct?

I stopped both cars and attempted to chat to the drivers, but they didn't seem to want to chat, I wonder why?

The first car was a couple in their late 50s, man driving. Their car was full of holiday stuff, blocking his visibility, but I'm sure his driver's side mirror was still working.

The second case involved a very rude mother who gave the 'anchor' sign with her hand. She risked the lives of her children in that manoeuvre, which is appalling.

Anyway, I'm sure this won't be the last incident like this, but what to do about it? I don't appreciate having my life endangered like this.

Don't be a d1ck and move over. Not everybody in England drives V8's so getting up to highway speed in a Polo 1.0 from stand still is pretty deadly.

 

[Deleted member 131833]

If I had not braked the distance between the cars would have been unacceptably small for the speed I was travelling.

Defensive driving!

 

[Deleted member 65149]

I very rarely have to brake for anyone in lane 1 because I am usually able to join lane 2 when I see cars on a slip road because I am way ahead observing what is in lane 2 before I even see the slip road.

If I can't join lane 2, I drop speed to allow them to merge easily so I never have to brake.

Can I assume that when approaching a slip you don’t just check what’s in lane 2. Hopefully you also get a rough idea of the relative speed of vehicles in that lane so that you won’t cause them to adjust their speed if and when you move into that lane. And I also hope that you take note of traffic in lane 3 (where there is one) to gauge what the total knock on effects could be of moving over a lane to let in a solitary driver who may not know how to adjust their speed to merge in. There’s far more to all this than meets the untrained eye.

Another thing. I hate it when I’m on a slip road and observing the traffic on the main road in order to adjust my speed to merge in, then someone in lane 1 moves over or slows down for me. My calculations go out of the window, I have to slow down whilst reassessing the situation, then enter the main road slower than intended and less confident of my last second adjustment.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Don't be a d1ck and move over. Not everybody in England drives V8's so getting up to highway speed in a Polo 1.0 from stand still is pretty deadly.

As long as you and the person behind you in lane 1 are leaving sufficient space for vehicles to enter from a slip road, there should be no problem for any vehicle to enter safely, no matter what its power limitations. Certainly move over, but not if it’s going to cause one or many more vehicles in the outer lanes to have to adjust their speeds too. The knock-on effect of this is one of the main reasons for traffic congestion on the approach to slip roads.

 

[PRB]

Sorry if this got posed before, but here's what the Highway Code says

Joining the motorway (259)

When you join the motorway you will normally approach it from a road on the left (a slip road) or from an adjoining motorway. You should

• give priority to traffic already on the motorway
• check the traffic on the motorway and match your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane
• not cross solid white lines that separate lanes or use the hard shoulder
• stay on the slip road if it continues as an extra lane on the motorway
• remain in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before considering overtaking.

To me this means that its the responsibility of the person joining to ensure there is sufficient space and they are doing the correct speed to merge seamlessly with the traffic on the motorway and it is not the responsibility of the traffic on the motorway to give way or adjust their driving (I except there are exceptions to this, heavy slow moving traffic, escorted or slow vehicles merging, etc)

I know that seems pretty black and white but from what I see every day (and I do a 200 mile round trip commute on the M25 and M4) is the complete opposite, with the merging traffic thinking they have the right of way and that everyone should move for them. How many times have you all seen someone force their way straight from the slip road into the outside lane regardless of traffic conditions or speed.

 

[Riva811]

Sorry if this got posed before, but here's what the Highway Code says

Joining the motorway (259)

When you join the motorway you will normally approach it from a road on the left (a slip road) or from an adjoining motorway. You should

• give priority to traffic already on the motorway
• check the traffic on the motorway and match your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane
• not cross solid white lines that separate lanes or use the hard shoulder
• stay on the slip road if it continues as an extra lane on the motorway
• remain in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before considering overtaking.

To me this means that its the responsibility of the person joining to ensure there is sufficient space and they are doing the correct speed to merge seamlessly with the traffic on the motorway and it is not the responsibility of the traffic on the motorway to give way or adjust their driving (I except there are exceptions to this, heavy slow moving traffic, escorted or slow vehicles merging, etc)

I know that seems pretty black and white but from what I see every day (and I do a 200 mile round trip commute on the M25 and M4) is the complete opposite, with the merging traffic thinking they have the right of way and that everyone should move for them. How many times have you all seen someone force their way straight from the slip road into the outside lane regardless of traffic conditions or speed.

Just stay away from lanes where traffic will merge, that's what I have been doing [emoji23]

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[renault12ts]

Can I assume that when approaching a slip you don’t just check what’s in lane 2. Hopefully you also get a rough idea of the relative speed of vehicles in that lane so that you won’t cause them to adjust their speed if and when you move into that lane. And I also hope that you take note of traffic in lane 3 (where there is one) to gauge what the total knock on effects could be of moving over a lane to let in a solitary driver who may not know how to adjust their speed to merge in. There’s far more to all this than meets the untrained eye.

Patronising?

 

[PRB]

Just stay away from lanes where traffic will merge, that's what I have been doing [emoji23]

Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk

My commuting car is a diesel BMW so tends to pull to the outside lane anyway

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Patronising?

To the untrained eye.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Patronising?

Rhetorical?

 

[John]

Can I assume that when approaching a slip you don’t just check what’s in lane 2. Hopefully you also get a rough idea of the relative speed of vehicles in that lane so that you won’t cause them to adjust their speed if and when you move into that lane. And I also hope that you take note of traffic in lane 3 (where there is one) to gauge what the total knock on effects could be of moving over a lane to let in a solitary driver who may not know how to adjust their speed to merge in. There’s far more to all this than meets the untrained eye.

Another thing. I hate it when I’m on a slip road and observing the traffic on the main road in order to adjust my speed to merge in, then someone in lane 1 moves over or slows down for me. My calculations go out of the window, I have to slow down whilst reassessing the situation, then enter the main road slower than intended and less confident of my last second adjustment.

I've certainly never had or caused any issues.

You're over-thinking this. It's not complicated...

 

[Deleted member 65149]

I've certainly never had or caused any issues.

You're over-thinking this. It's not complicated...

I don’t believe it’s possible to overthink any move you make whilst driving, especially when at speed on a dual carriageway or motorway. Just my opinion and my choice. Others have a more relaxed attitude, that’s all too often evident.

 

[190]

I agree with knighterrant on this.

For lane 1 drivers to routinely readjust speed just reinforces the bad driving behaviour of the minority that are ignorant of the correct way to do it. Most of the time I'm happy to get out of the way into lane 2 but when there is no where to go it's the driver on the slip road that is going to have to do it by the highway code for once. If they have grown to expect lane 1 drivers to magically disappear then that becomes a dangerous situation. I have had a very near miss when someone just kept coming that convinced me we have bred this bad driving behavior by being too tolerant of it. Perhaps it should be part of the driving test when such tactics would guarantee a fail.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Nearly three years.

 

[Riva811]

I agree with knighterrant on this.

For lane 1 drivers to routinely readjust speed just reinforces the bad driving behaviour of the minority that are ignorant of the correct way to do it. Most of the time I'm happy to get out of the way into lane 2 but when there is no where to go it's the driver on the slip road that is going to have to do it by the highway code for once. If they have grown to expect lane 1 drivers to magically disappear then that becomes a dangerous situation. I have had a very near miss when someone just kept coming that convinced me we have bred this bad driving behavior by being too tolerant of it. Perhaps it should be part of the driving test when such tactics would guarantee a fail.

I disagree entirely. It's called negotiating. If everyone is being a d1ck with their ego first questioning whether they are in the right then it obviously causes havoc. Whether you reduce or the case joining in reduces depends on a lot of factors. Expecting cars to stop on the high way its pure dumb

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[John]

Getting annoyed and irate on the road doesn't help anyone.

A relaxed attitude helps you think more clearly and react accordingly and won't eventually give you a heart-attack.

The problem in the real world is there are a range of people with differing abilities, including those who clearly should not be driving.

If you are intolerant to anything except driving excellence, you are going to spend your life exchanging details with 3rd parties and causing problems for everyone else on the road.

For me to pull out to lane 2 when it is clear there is enough space and I can see lane 3 has nothing in it wishing to head back to lane 2, this is easier than having to brake in lane 1 causing issues for those behind.

I'm forever thinking way ahead on who is doing what and what I believe others will do because that is part and parcel of sharing the road with everyone else.

However, if I cannot get into lane 2 safely, then slowing down 5mph gradually is not going to cause a problem and will ease the flow.

I'd love an idealistic attitude to the road but it doesn't work like that, like most things in life.

Whether I like it or not is irrelevant - it's the way it is.

I've never had accidents/incidents on the motorway and normal observation would make you aware of any devastation in your wake - to which I've seen none.

There is also an overwhelming sense of "make people learn". Unfortunately some don't and they will remain on the roads whether you like it or not.

I've learnt to live with it and adapt my driving accordingly as I cannot change it.

Don't sweat the small sh*t!

 

[Riva811]

Getting annoyed and irate on the road doesn't help anyone.

A relaxed attitude helps you think more clearly and react accordingly and won't eventually give you a heart-attack.

The problem in the real world is there are a range of people with differing abilities, including those who clearly should not be driving.

If you are intolerant to anything except driving excellence, you are going to spend your life exchanging details with 3rd parties and causing problems for everyone else on the road.

For me to pull out to lane 2 when it is clear there is enough space and I can see lane 3 has nothing in it wishing to head back to lane 2, this is easier than having to brake in lane 1 causing issues for those behind.

I'm forever thinking way ahead on who is doing what and what I believe others will do because that is part and parcel of sharing the road with everyone else.

However, if I cannot get into lane 2 safely, then slowing down 5mph gradually is not going to cause a problem and will ease the flow.

I'd love an idealistic attitude to the road but it doesn't work like that, like most things in life.

Whether I like it or not is irrelevant - it's the way it is.

I've never had accidents/incidents on the motorway and normal observation would make you aware of any devastation in your wake - to which I've seen none.

I guess you and I value our CL and most importantly our life too much to risk an accident [emoji106]

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[Bobby Dazzler]

Getting annoyed and irate on the road doesn't help anyone.

A relaxed attitude helps you think more clearly and react accordingly and won't eventually give you a heart-attack.

The problem in the real world is there are a range of people with differing abilities, including those who clearly should not be driving.

If you are intolerant to anything except driving excellence, you are going to spend your life exchanging details with 3rd parties and causing problems for everyone else on the road.

For me to pull out to lane 2 when it is clear there is enough space and I can see lane 3 has nothing in it wishing to head back to lane 2, this is easier than having to brake in lane 1 causing issues for those behind.

I'm forever thinking way ahead on who is doing what and what I believe others will do because that is part and parcel of sharing the road with everyone else.

However, if I cannot get into lane 2 safely, then slowing down 5mph gradually is not going to cause a problem and will ease the flow.

I'd love an idealistic attitude to the road but it doesn't work like that, like most things in life.

Whether I like it or not is irrelevant - it's the way it is.

I've never had accidents/incidents on the motorway and normal observation would make you aware of any devastation in your wake - to which I've seen none.

There is also an overwhelming sense of "make people learn". Unfortunately some don't and they will remain on the roads whether you like it or not.

I've learnt to live with it and adapt my driving accordingly as I cannot change it.

Don't sweat the small sh*t!

I couldn’t agree more. Keeping a close eye on the mirrors when approaching junctions enables one to move out if required, or adjust speed (without braking) if traffic is heavy and there’s no space to change lanes. Braking though, is best avoided, unless it’s to avoid impact that couldn’t easily be anticipated.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Getting annoyed and irate on the road doesn't help anyone.

A relaxed attitude helps you think more clearly and react accordingly and won't eventually give you a heart-attack.

The problem in the real world is there are a range of people with differing abilities, including those who clearly should not be driving.

If you are intolerant to anything except driving excellence, you are going to spend your life exchanging details with 3rd parties and causing problems for everyone else on the road.

For me to pull out to lane 2 when it is clear there is enough space and I can see lane 3 has nothing in it wishing to head back to lane 2, this is easier than having to brake in lane 1 causing issues for those behind.

I'm forever thinking way ahead on who is doing what and what I believe others will do because that is part and parcel of sharing the road with everyone else.

However, if I cannot get into lane 2 safely, then slowing down 5mph gradually is not going to cause a problem and will ease the flow.

I'd love an idealistic attitude to the road but it doesn't work like that, like most things in life.

Whether I like it or not is irrelevant - it's the way it is.

I've never had accidents/incidents on the motorway and normal observation would make you aware of any devastation in your wake - to which I've seen none.

There is also an overwhelming sense of "make people learn". Unfortunately some don't and they will remain on the roads whether you like it or not.

I've learnt to live with it and adapt my driving accordingly as I cannot change it.

Don't sweat the small sh*t!

We’re mostly on the same wavelength here. Observation, planning, tolerance and consideration are all important to both of us, and many others here I’m sure. I’ve been driving on motorways since the early 60s and I too have never experienced a driving incident whilst doing so that has resulted in a crash. (I did once have the wipers fail in a sudden thunderstorm whilst doing over 100mph in my Mk VII Jag on the M4 when I was 18 - but still managed to avoid hitting anything!)

Getting annoyed and irate on the road has been something that’s passed me by for over 50 years, at the most I’ll shake my head or raise my eyebrows at some of the antics I see. As you say, it’s not worth it.

I have been on the receiving end though. On two particular occasions I’ve been on the inside lane at the NSL when approaching a slip road on a dual carriageway and with vehicles in the lane next to me, thus unable to safely change lanes without inconveniencing other drivers. The drivers on the slip roads have clearly been going slower than me and both times there was a decent gap behind me. It would have been easy for them to merge in behind me, but they both chose to maintain their speed or even attempt to accelerate out in front of me. I stayed in lane (not having any other option) and kept my cruise control on, but was prepared to brake if necessary to avoid a collision. At the last moment both drivers suddenly realised that there was going to be nowhere for them to go so they braked and merged in behind me. Both drivers (remember these were separate occasions) then sped up to beyond the NSL so they could pull alongside me and have a rant, presumably in the belief that I was wrong to not adjust my driving to let them out as they pleased. I just shrugged my shoulders and let them speed off.

My point about not going out of my way to let people ignore the advice on how to correctly enter from a slip road is that the more people make allowances for them the more normalised their unsafe actions become. That’s when problems occur. It has nothing to do with “making people learn”, it’s more to do with not wanting people to turn bad habits into standard practice by encouraging them to do so.

As for your preferred option of slowing if you’re unable to move out a lane, I repeat that this causes issues (albeit relatively minor) for the very many of us who are using slip roads correctly and planning to merge in behind you. On occasion it can be more than a minor inconvenience when the vehicle(s) in lane 1 following the slowing driver don’t slow as much themselves and close the gap that we were going to merge into. I’m not overthinking this, I’m stating practical potential issues when trying to be helpful. Sometimes that help isn’t wanted. Sometimes that help turns out to be a hindrance. I still give a wave of thanks to the driver who slows to let me out, but at the same time wish that they hadn’t.

These sorts of little issues mostly go unnoticed by the driver who has caused them because other drivers have adapted to the situation and avoided any incident. I’ve no doubt there have been times when something I’ve done in all innocence has resulted in a ripple effect going back several vehicles. But because there hasn’t been any “devastation” behind as you put it, I don’t know about it. I try my best now to avoid those unknown reactions to my driving choices, but not at the expense of known reactions!