Joining a dual carriageway or motorway

m80

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I see the vehicles joining the motorway without consideration of what is already there often.

My preferred speed is 58mph, on cruise. I find occasionally I've to pass a wagon in the inside lane so accelerate gently to do it if the middle lane is moving faster. If there are wagons in both inside lanes I speed up even more to pass them where I would be holding up those in the faster outside lane. Then back to the inside lane as soon as.
I don't always drop into the inside lane when I can see the traffic in the middle lane is travelling too close to each other to allow me to come out again where I see a possible obstruction ahead, filter lanes, slip roads, and the like.

As I also like a buffer zone in front of me to allow for my decelaration instead of braking my holding 58 in the inside lane so driving at a consisitant speed (seems impossible for many) should allow any motorway joiners to adapt and blend. There have been numerous times I've watch as they approach the motorway on their slip road, no indication, no sign that they are adjusting their speed to blend, and a last second adjustment with brakes to avoid collision. They then sem to hold me responsible even though they can't see what I see through my o/s mirror. If I adjust my speed it increases danger as they might also and then we are both slowing until one makes a break for it in the hope the other doesn't also. My holding 58 is the safer option.
 

zipdip

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Well the sad fact is we have the young crazy with sharp reactions and dreaming that but for the fact they have never had the chance they could be the next F1 champ and then we get the old,who know that they are not driving as well as they once could and use all the ring craft they can muster,and of course point to the fact that the young have more accidents,now the young if pushed into taking a driving test would be on their best behaviour and pass,many older drivers would pass but a large number would not be aware of what was going on around them,position the car wrongly,be in the wrong lane,enter a yellow box,fail to see a person on a zebra crossing,Gerald has said his insurance as a older driver has not gone up much,well I am glad about that,but car insurance is a bit like holiday insurance,if you told the truth on that you would never get covered,hence the farcical form from the DVLA which says if you are ok to drive sign here,some of the things people can drive with are scary,have a look at the list,I will get that form from the DVLA next year,I am lucky touch wood with nothing going wrong with my health,I could if I wanted to take the medical and awake my LGV1 licence,I would welcome any driving test that the DVLA wanted older drivers to take,because then our insurance would go down,around here and at Frinton on Sea it is known as God's waiting room and boy are there some older drivers trying to get to the head of that queue.
 
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Well the sad fact is we have the young crazy with sharp reactions and dreaming that but for the fact they have never had the chance they could be the next F1 champ and then we get the old,who know that they are not driving as well as they once could and use all the ring craft they can muster,and of course point to the fact that the young have more accidents,now the young if pushed into taking a driving test would be on their best behaviour and pass,many older drivers would pass but a large number would not be aware of what was going on around them,position the car wrongly,be in the wrong lane,enter a yellow box,fail to see a person on a zebra crossing,Gerald has said his insurance as a older driver has not gone up much,well I am glad about that,but car insurance is a bit like holiday insurance,if you told the truth on that you would never get covered,hence the farcical form from the DVLA which says if you are ok to drive sign here,some of the things people can drive with are scary,have a look at the list,I will get that form from the DVLA next year,I am lucky touch wood with nothing going wrong with my health,I could if I wanted to take the medical and awake my LGV1 licence,I would welcome any driving test that the DVLA wanted older drivers to take,because then our insurance would go down,around here and at Frinton on Sea it is known as God's waiting room and boy are there some older drivers trying to get to the head of that queue.

If you lie to get insurance it's not valid.
 

John

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The more vehicles that are on the roads, the more idiots there will be. And on a sunny Bank Holiday I don't even bother to go out ... I've lost count of the times I've nearly been in a major accident through fault of my own - some of the worst on the South Mimms roundabout on the M25. Once I was in the correct lane for the motorway, and an artic was on the far left lane (there were 4 lanes at this point). The artic decided he was in the wrong lane, got into the lane next to me and proceeded to drive straight into my lane while I was approaching his cab. I had no choice but to put my foot to the floor to try and get through the small gap between me and the car to my right, how I didn't et hit I'll never know - I looked back and he had continued to go to the inside lane, how he didn't wipe anyone out was a miracle. And another time (on same roundabout) a van driver who overtook a line of traffic then tried to force his way into my lane causing me to drive off the road to avoid being hit - so much aggression in the crowded south east! :mad: I made sure I got a dash cam as soon as I got back, although I rarely need it where I live except for one particular roundabout near a level crossing where it seems to be a free-for-all and drivers just carry on regardless from all directions :rolleyes:

I've driven round that roundabout a few times over the couple of years and I see the same thing.
 

Barnois

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When travelling on a multi lane carriageway, the option for other traffic to join is always there. I’d always suggest when there is an off slip, there is likely to be an onslip. Traffic joining has got (generally) a restricted view. Why not, as a thinking driver, preempt the highly likely situation that traffic will be joining and move to lane 2. This creates a sterile lane for joining traffic and reduces any potential for confrontation. If nothing joins, no dramas, move back to lane 1 and resume your normal position. IF, something was to appear on the on slip, they can join without fuss, you are out of the way and life is groovy. Put yourself in a position of safety at all times. That’s just my opinion, although it’s based on a fair amount of experience and training.
 

Bobby Dazzler

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When travelling on a multi lane carriageway, the option for other traffic to join is always there. I’d always suggest when there is an off slip, there is likely to be an onslip. Traffic joining has got (generally) a restricted view. Why not, as a thinking driver, preempt the highly likely situation that traffic will be joining and move to lane 2. This creates a sterile lane for joining traffic and reduces any potential for confrontation. If nothing joins, no dramas, move back to lane 1 and resume your normal position. IF, something was to appear on the on slip, they can join without fuss, you are out of the way and life is groovy. Put yourself in a position of safety at all times. That’s just my opinion, although it’s based on a fair amount of experience and training.
In some circumstances when traffic is heavy, especially on a dual carriageway with a noticeable speed differential between lanes, pre-emoting traffic and changing lanes could cause more danger than safety. Possibly a dose of road rage too if no traffic joins to take advantage of the space created.

Every situation is different. Moving over is sometimes the right thing to do, other times staying put is, but anticipating what might happen is always the right thing to do.
 

knighterrant

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As Bobby said ^. Instead of just moving out when approaching an on slip in anticipation of someone possibly wanting to enter, I would suggest that it would be preferable to maintain the same speed in lane 1 whilst checking for the occupation levels of the next lane. As you near the on slip keep a watchful eye out for any traffic on there, if none then carry on as you were. If you do see a vehicle on the slip, be prepared to take action if necessary to avoid a collision, but remain in your lane and do NOT adjust your speed, unless that would mean you close the safe gap to the vehicle in front of you. If the vehicle entering does not appear to be adjusting its speed to merge in front or behind you, then take action. That action depends entirely on what you have been observing whilst approaching the slip. If the next lane is completely free for some distance and by moving into it you would impede the flow of any other traffic, then indicate and move over. If you can’t move without causing any other traffic to change speed or lane then slow down, but not so quickly that you risk getting shunted from behind.

That’s just a highly simplified account of what’s necessary at slip roads. As Bobby said, every circumstance is different. What’s important is to consider everyone else using the road at or near that point. The easiest way to achieve this is to observe and to THINK.
 

Barnois

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In some circumstances when traffic is heavy, especially on a dual carriageway with a noticeable speed differential between lanes, pre-emoting traffic and changing lanes could cause more danger than safety. Possibly a dose of road rage too if no traffic joins to take advantage of the space created.

Every situation is different. Moving over is sometimes the right thing to do, other times staying put is, but anticipating what might happen is always the right thing to do.
 

Barnois

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That’s reactive driving. I’d say think about what you can see, what can’t you see, what could you reasonably expect to happen, what threat represents the greatest risk etc. It doesn’t really matter what anybody says, it’s about what what works in any situation. Stay in lane one and prepare to move or, just move over and deal with the unseen but highly likely scenario. Driving is just such a fluid skill. As long as the shiny side remains skywards and nobody gets hurt, all is well (sort of)
 

knighterrant

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Possible scenarios with the “move over in case someone wants to enter the motorway/dual carriageway” method when approaching a slip road:

1) The next lane is empty, you move over, the driver of the vehicle entering acknowledges your courtesy with a wave as you pass, everyone is happy and all is indeed well.

2) The next lane is empty, you move over, nobody on the slip, you move back to the inside lane, you metaphorically pat yourself on the back for your forward thinking, nobody else sees but all is still well.

3) The next lane is empty, you move over, a vehicle is on the slip and enters. Different negative possibilities now:
3a) The entering driver gets used to people moving over for them and assumes it will happen every time, with possible disastrous consequences. All is not well.
3b) The vehicle enters at the same speed as you just as you pass in the next lane, resulting in you both continuing next to each other at the same speed, resulting in a mobile road block unless one or both of you adjust your speed to allow you to return to the inside lane. Meanwhile other traffic catches up and drivers get frustrated. All is not well.
4) There’s traffic in the next lane, but it’s far enough back that you won’t cause anyone to brake by moving into it, so you do. Again, different possibilities:
4a) That distant traffic in lane 2 is travelling much faster than you and catches up well before you actually reach the slip road, there’s nowhere for them to pass you so they have to slow significantly, they get annoyed that you’ve pulled out when it would have been perfectly safe for you to stay in lane 1 and the traffic on the slip merge in. Not only that, you have to stay out in lane 2 until clear of the traffic that has entered from the slip road. All is not well.
4b) As in 4a but there’s nobody on the slip road. The impeded drivers get even more annoyed that you’ve got in their way for absolutely nothing. All is not well.
5) The list goes on ... and on ... and on.

The alternative: follow the guidelines of the Highway Code and let vehicles on the slip give priority to traffic on the main highway. Let them do the work of adjusting their speed to safely enter. People eventually learn to get it right. All is well.
 

Barnois

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Great.
Just keep doing what you’re doing. I’m sure it’ll be fine
 

renault12ts

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Drivers entering the M'way should be aware of what's happening on the m'way and modulate their speed to enter safely. Move over if you wish, but generally you shouldn't have to if the person joining knows what they are doing.
 

Ted

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So take this situation that happened to my mate Dave this morning.
Two lanes join a dual carriageway. The right hand lane joins it around 2-300 yards sooner than the left hand lane.
Dave is in the left of the two lanes and signals to join the dual carriageway before the broken lines. The DC is (unusually) clear behind.
Mr BMW enters the right hand lane and comes stonking down, enters the DC and clearly looks to be accelerating to cut Dave off.
What is Dave's best course of action?
 

knighterrant

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So take this situation that happened to my mate Dave this morning.
Two lanes join a dual carriageway. The right hand lane joins it around 2-300 yards sooner than the left hand lane.
Dave is in the left of the two lanes and signals to join the dual carriageway before the broken lines. The DC is (unusually) clear behind.
Mr BMW enters the right hand lane and comes stonking down, enters the DC and clearly looks to be accelerating to cut Dave off.
What is Dave's best course of action?
Simple, adjust your (oops, sorry, Dave’s) speed to merge in behind the BMW. From Dave’s description, the BMW would be on the dual carriageway first and thus have priority.
 
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So take this situation that happened to my mate Dave this morning.
Two lanes join a dual carriageway. The right hand lane joins it around 2-300 yards sooner than the left hand lane.
Dave is in the left of the two lanes and signals to join the dual carriageway before the broken lines. The DC is (unusually) clear behind.
Mr BMW enters the right hand lane and comes stonking down, enters the DC and clearly looks to be accelerating to cut Dave off.
What is Dave's best course of action?

The BMW will definitely take up his rightful position in the outside lane leaving Dave free to join one of the other, inferior, lanes.
 

renault12ts

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So take this situation that happened to my mate Dave this morning.
Two lanes join a dual carriageway. The right hand lane joins it around 2-300 yards sooner than the left hand lane.
Dave is in the left of the two lanes and signals to join the dual carriageway before the broken lines. The DC is (unusually) clear behind.
Mr BMW enters the right hand lane and comes stonking down, enters the DC and clearly looks to be accelerating to cut Dave off.
What is Dave's best course of action?
At all costs...avoid collision with said other driver, by modulating your speed to fall in behind or put yourself ahead.
 
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John

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The alternative: follow the guidelines of the Highway Code and let vehicles on the slip give priority to traffic on the main highway. Let them do the work of adjusting their speed to safely enter. People eventually learn to get it right. All is well.

I agree with your approach (excuse the pun), but people don't eventually learn to get it right. They seem to maintain a healthy inability forever!
 

knighterrant

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I agree with your approach (excuse the pun), but people don't eventually learn to get it right. They seem to maintain a healthy inability forever!
Unfortunately you’re correct. Perhaps I should have said that SOME people eventually learn to get it right.
 

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