Key Reprogramming- What's The Real Answer

[Justin1600]

Maybe it was 250,000 presses of the remote key button then. Lock, unlock, boot release

I will get you some evidence by the end of the week

 

[renault12ts]

Maybe it was 250,000 presses of the remote key button then. Lock, unlock, boot release

I will get you some evidence by the end of the week

Even that would be quite a few years...its only maths.

 

[Mackhack]

I looked some stuff up in WIS and he might be right with his claim. The keys really have rolling codes. B/c you can put a spare key in to program and the car uses the unused rolling codes and transfers them onto the spare key. The whole thing takes about 90 minutes with a W211!

 

[Johig]

I've just had a new key. I gave a pal my passport and the logbook. He went off to his pal at MB and came back with a key that works. I just pointed it at the car, pressed unlock and hey presto, it worked. I thought it was more complicated and they needed the car but evidently not. It's a 2003 W220. Go on someone, tell that's impossible!

 

[Deleted member 37751]

I've just had a new key. I gave a pal my passport and the logbook. He went off to his pal at MB and came back with a key that works. I just pointed it at the car, pressed unlock and hey presto, it worked. I thought it was more complicated and they needed the car but evidently not. It's a 2003 W220. Go on someone, tell that's impossible!

That's what happens with every Mercedes key that you purchase for your car- they have a code for only your car via your VIN

 

[Justin1600]

I looked some stuff up in WIS and he might be right with his claim. The keys really have rolling codes. B/c you can put a spare key in to program and the car uses the unused rolling codes and transfers them onto the spare key. The whole thing takes about 90 minutes with a W211!

 

[kwakdonut]

Everytime you put the key in the ignition, that is one hash code gone ( rolling code )

Where did you get 171 years from ?????????

My first key on my W202 died after 10 years

It's an electronic device - that was probably just wear & tear

 

[Howard]

I looked some stuff up in WIS and he might be right with his claim. The keys really have rolling codes. B/c you can put a spare key in to program and the car uses the unused rolling codes and transfers them onto the spare key. The whole thing takes about 90 minutes with a W211!

So it uses the unused rolling codes ?

So say if you have just 10 left , you buy a new key for £220 , and you can only use it 10 times before it stops working ?

 

[Mackhack]

So it uses the unused rolling codes ?

So say if you have just 10 left , you buy a new key for £220 , and you can only use it 10 times before it stops working ?

I'm not the OP and I haven't had time to do some investigation. I friend of mine is a engineer at MB in Stuttgart. I'll shoot him an email really quick if he knows more. Once I receive an answer I'll post as this is something that really interests me as well.

 

[Justin1600]

So it uses the unused rolling codes ?

So say if you have just 10 left , you buy a new key for £220 , and you can only use it 10 times before it stops working ?

No when you put just a new key in, the EIS knows the last rolling code and the new key will link up and move to the next code with it.

If you fit a new EIS, the memory is blank for the vehicle details and any rolling codes. First a special orange key is inserted to download all the cars details into the EIS. Then if you are going to use a existing key, you put that key into the EIS and it will compute with the new EIS and go through all the rolling codes that have previously used to bring the EIS upto date. This can take between a couple of mins to quite some time to do this, the red light will go out on the key and the steering lock will release when this is done.
The new key will start with the same amount of has codes

 

[chris846]

Have I got this right? - there's separate issues:
1. the new key has to be programmed with an identity so's the EIS will accept it (the VIN number is used to etablish whatever identity needs programming into the key) this is a one-shot, hence keys can't be 're-programmed.
2. everytime the EIS sees a key that it 'knows', it gives it the next rolling code from its lifelong list.

So how does this rolling code work with somebody using 2 or more keys - surely the EIS must run each key separately through its lifelong list - so an often-used key might work its way towards the end of the available list in the EIS, whereas the spare key might still be near the beginning - and everytime you get a new replacement key it starts from scratch. A well-used key might 'run out' of codes, but really there's nothing wrong with the key - it's the EIS that no longer has any more codes for it.

...and there's nothing wrong with the EIS either - it just needs to see a younger key.

?

 

[crockers]

when I collected my new key, it unlocked the car no problem. When I plugged it in the ignition ( well it's more a plug than a key ) the display said new key. Programming ( or something similar - may have been updating) then after 20 or so seconds all was ok.

 

[Robbie T]

Maybe i can clarify some points:

All Mercs have 10 (i think, around that certainly) key tracks, if a key is lost then an MB star computer can wipe the track of the key that is lost so it can't be used by an undesirable who has "found" that key. New keys purchased are ordered via the VIN number which has a key number stored in MB's system and therefore programmed to this number, hence they work straight off (apart from certain flip keys, but that's another matter). They use another of the free tracks within the EIS's memory.

I've never heard of the number of uses being limited to 250,000 but it's quite believable as, has been pointed out, this is quite sufficient

I've just had a new key. I gave a pal my passport and the logbook. He went off to his pal at MB and came back with a key that works. I just pointed it at the car, pressed unlock and hey presto, it worked. I thought it was more complicated and they needed the car but evidently not. It's a 2003 W220. Go on someone, tell that's impossible!

With regards to this; it's absolutely possible, your friend's pal just hasn't followed MB's policy on ordering theft relevant items. In honesty, a chassis number is all an MB parts advisor needs to order a key for any car.

As far as re-programming an existing key to a new car, it's not possible for MB to do this, but as always the clever chinese have made a computer that will do it. An autoelectrician friend is looking to buy said machine in the very near future so if you'd like a cheaper key than Mercedes can offer, i may be able to help

Sorry for the waffle

 

[Mackhack]

Just got a reply back from the engineer. He can't talk about the mechanism (hard- or software) for the apparent reason of security!

Sorry that I couldn't shed more light into this directly from the source!

 

[Justin1600]

Maybe i can clarify some points:

All Mercs have 10 (i think, around that certainly) key tracks, if a key is lost then an MB star computer can wipe the track of the key that is lost so it can't be used by an undesirable who has "found" that key. New keys purchased are ordered via the VIN number which has a key number stored in MB's system and therefore programmed to this number, hence they work straight off (apart from certain flip keys, but that's another matter). They use another of the free tracks within the EIS's memory.

I've never heard of the number of uses being limited to 250,000 but it's quite believable as, has been pointed out, this is quite sufficient



With regards to this; it's absolutely possible, your friend's pal just hasn't followed MB's policy on ordering theft relevant items. In honesty, a chassis number is all an MB parts advisor needs to order a key for any car.

As far as re-programming an existing key to a new car, it's not possible for MB to do this, but as always the clever chinese have made a computer that will do it. An autoelectrician friend is looking to buy said machine in the very near future so if you'd like a cheaper key than Mercedes can offer, i may be able to help

Sorry for the waffle

In the EIS there is 8 tracks to which 3 keys can be used to each, making a total of 24 keys.
But in the UK only one key is used per track, making a total of 8 keys. If a key is lost or broken and another one is ordered from MB then the next available key track is used, and the lost or broken one needs to be deleted from the EIS using Star Diagnosis.

To order a key you need to take along the Log book, Passport, proof of address and bring the car with you when you collect the new key to verify the car is yours and that the key works ok.

 

[crockers]

I didn't have to show a passport. Just driving licence.

 

[flango]

Even easier in the trade just ring them with the Reg & VIN and the key arrives on the parts run

 

[kwakdonut]

I didn't have to show a passport. Just driving licence.

I believe any of the 'major' photo ID's are acceptable so; Passport, Driving Licence etc are good

 

[zenman63]

Even easier in the trade just ring them with the Reg & VIN and the key arrives on the parts run

Is this right?
Just had my Nav stolen and the van was locked and no alarm went off.
I think someone new it was there and came with a key, could this be done?

 

[stevesey]

In the EIS there is 8 tracks to which 3 keys can be used to each, making a total of 24 keys.
But in the UK only one key is used per track, making a total of 8 keys. If a key is lost or broken and another one is ordered from MB then the next available key track is used, and the lost or broken one needs to be deleted from the EIS using Star Diagnosis.

Some information page 16 onwards here: http://www.mercedestechstore.com/pd...O Part 13 Tip start & DAS (WJB ) 04-01-01.pdf

24 key table is on page 19.