Livingstone unveils £25 'Chelsea Tractor' charge

[recycled]

right is this more economical than LPG and does it invalidate warranties?
Thanks

 

[Dieselman]

No offence but my Great Grandad was not blown to bits at Passchendale so that some little idiot like Ken Livingstone could tell me what I can and can't drive. I thought the Great War was fought to keep our freedom not so we are governed by pompous little twats with silly voices.

Sorry Dieselman I'm not having a dig at you personally it's just a subject that annoys me to the core.

As for the cost of public transport do not get me started. In Madrid I can spend less that 1 euro to go anywhere in the city in nice clean, modern, efficient busses or tube trains, how come I can't in this country

I didn't think you were...

The problem here is that there really is a problem and it needs central Government intervention to deal with it.
Now as a car enthusiast I may like the idea that we should all be able to drive what we want, but I do feel some responsibility also.

I, like you get choices and I have chosen take heed of the issue and make a few changes such as running the car on Bio. Maybe not a big change but it doesn't affect me, costs me less and I do other things as well.

Due to general apathy and resentment legislation will be forced upon all of us to make us comply. We can chose to complain about it or we can take steps to ensure we don't pay the additional charges. This is what the powers that be want us to do, reduce CO2 emissions.

You do have a choice, but not taking heed of the warnings then complaining isnt going to achieve much..other than an ulcer..

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

I do live in London and can't wait to shift Livingstone out for this. I commute on the train as it's faster and there's nowhere to park. Yes Ken hates cars, so he wants rid...to make room for his favourite..buses. I counted (parked nose to tail with nothing to seperate them)...eight buses! Half of them were empty. It's a farce.

The buses run full to bursting in the peaks. Without them, there would be gridlock, and you would not be able to drive your car anywhere. So next time you see a bus, don't curse it, be thankful that it is taking traffic off the roads that would otherwise get in your way!

And as for near-empty buses, what about the vast majority of cars that are also near-empty, because they are carrying just one person, the driver? There is no greater farce than watching thousands of cars flooding into London every day with at least three vacant seats.

 

[Dieselman]

right is this more economical than LPG and does it invalidate warranties?
Thanks

Car manufacturers only validate the warranty to 5% Bio, because they have to to meet EU legislation on fuels containing 5% Bio.

My supplier has liability insurance and is happy to cover any MB because he knows he wont get a claim for a knackered pump.
The Bio has the same viscosity as pump diesel and provides better lubrication and is tested to BS14214 and filtered to 1 micron.

EDIT.
Didn't answer the economy bit.

Consumption is the same as diesel, but the cost is 79.5p. I know someone in west Mids paying 73p from a forcourt. So taking diesel economy into account it's probably about the same as LPG.

Just as an aside, the best cars to run on Bio fuel happens to be MB 60X series engines with in-line fuel pump. It'll handle anything, including SVO.
That's W201, W202, W210 series cars excepting W202 220D.

 

[Gucci]

The buses run full to bursting in the peaks. Without them, there would be gridlock, and you would not be able to drive your car anywhere. So next time you see a bus, don't curse it, be thankful that it is taking traffic off the roads that would otherwise get in your way!

And as for near-empty buses, what about the vast majority of cars that are also near-empty, because they are carrying just one person, the driver? There is no greater farce than watching thousands of cars flooding into London every day with at least three vacant seats.

Point taken, but the peaks should be serviced accordingly- they seem to be allowed to trundle round regardless of time. The empty seats in the cars don't stop every 30 seconds either - causing a domino effect of cars backing up behind it.

 

[recycled]

Well i am going to take heed of the warnings. I am fitting two huge AAA batteries to the engine of the car and declaring it is a hybrid.

 

[marcos]

I didn't think you were...

The problem here is that there really is a problem and it needs central Government intervention to deal with it.
Now as a car enthusiast I may like the idea that we should all be able to drive what we want, but I do feel some responsibility also.

I, like you get choices and I have chosen take heed of the issue and make a few changes such as running the car on Bio. Maybe not a big change but it doesn't affect me, costs me less and I do other things as well.

Due to general apathy and resentment legislation will be forced upon all of us to make us comply. We can chose to complain about it or we can take steps to ensure we don't pay the additional charges. This is what the powers that be want us to do, reduce CO2 emissions.

You do have a choice, but not taking heed of the warnings then complaining isnt going to achieve much..other than an ulcer..

Unfortunately I needed a car that could provide luxury for taking clients out and off-road capabilities and a large load lugging capacity for when I have to go to site
Unfortunately this limited my choices drastically.

 

[Dieselman]

off-road capabilities

Being honest do you really need this? How do the drivers of regular cars and vans fair then?

Maybe an E320 estate would have performed what you needed and been under the 215g/km limit.

 

[marcos]

Being honest do you really need this? How do the drivers of regular cars and vans fair then?

Maybe an E320 estate would have performed what you needed and been under the 215g/km limit.

Possibly but ground clearance is an issue, my old W211 E320CDI with airmatic set to the highest position would still ground now and then.

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

Point taken, but the peaks should be serviced accordingly- they seem to be allowed to trundle round regardless of time. The empty seats in the cars don't stop every 30 seconds either - causing a domino effect of cars backing up behind it.

I often wonder what people like you, who so bitterly criticise public transport, would put in its place instead.

Do you really think that there is enough room in London and other major cities for everyone who wants to drive a car, to be allowed to?

Do you really want to see swathes of houses (possibly including your own, or those of other members of your family) bulldozed to make way for new roads?

Do you really want to see other buildings bulldozed to construct the massive car parks that would be needed?

Do you have any idea what all this would cost, and who would pay for it?

And what about the carbon emissions of all these cars, when people using the bus or train would have reduced carbon emissions to less than a quarter of what cars produce?

Do you think that such a free-for-all would even be possible, let alone make any sense except for the selfish few?

If you think about all this, a good public transport system is essential for London and major cities all over the world. You don't solve traffic problems by creating *more* traffic. You solve them by providing efficient public transport and deterring people wherever possible from using their cars in cities.

If anyone thinks Boris the Buffoon would do anything drastically different, they would be quite wrong. Regardless of who is Mayor, massive investment in improving London's public transport is a prerequisite, and there are only a very limited number of ways of raising the money do do that.

 

[Dieselman]

If anyone thinks Boris the Buffoon would do anything drastically different, they would be quite wrong. Regardless of who is Mayor, massive investment in improving London's public transport is a prerequisite, and there are only a very limited number of ways of raising the money do do that.

Absolutely true.

 

[Gucci]

I just wish we could manage these things more effectively and efficiently in this country. Dome...mmmm, Wembley...mmmm, Public transport..mmm, Olympics in 2012...well, the logo was a good start. Ahem.

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

I just wish we could manage these things more effectively and efficiently in this country. Dome...mmmm, Wembley...mmmm, Public transport..mmm, Olympics in 2012...well, the logo was a good start. Ahem.

We're in total agreement there!

The Olympics started out at £2.7 billion. Now it is going to cost at least £9.2 billion, and that is what they are admitting to. No-one really knows what the final cost will be.

 

[kikkthecat]

The question remains though, where is this all going exactly.

If it's a congestion charge which is what it's called, then surely every vehicle should pay it.

If however it is an environmental tax as it appears to be now, then what happens when everyone has been taxed out of their cars into something that is exempt or onto public transport ?

The money dries up is what happens, so then the choices seem to be to either make the exempt vehicles no longer exempt or extend the area in which the charge/tax operates (already happenning.)

£25 a day to go shopping in London's suburbs anyone ?

At the moment it doesn't affect me but I'm sure it will in the future as we British have become very good at rolling over when politicians make us pay for everything twice.

 

[big x]

As for the cost of public transport do not get me started. In Madrid I can spend less that 1 euro to go anywhere in the city in nice clean, modern, efficient busses or tube trains, how come I can't in this country

Because the hugely expensive systems like Madrids are paid for and subsidized by the Spanish tax payer and those countries who pay into the Spanish EU subsidy like Britain and Germany.
If you want better public transport tell your MP you want to pay more tax ! There is no other way.As it stands London Transport is one of the most efficient in the World given it's much smaller public subsidy than other capital cities.
BTW there are petrol cars that pay no charge, the VW Polo Blue motion for one.The number of pre 01 cars over 3 litres driving into central London must be tiny, I'm surprised they don't just stick to punishing band G cars a policy which I support.

adam

 

[C43AMG]

I just wish we could manage these things more effectively and efficiently in this country. Dome...mmmm, Wembley...mmmm, Public transport..mmm, Olympics in 2012...well, the logo was a good start. Ahem.

I drive in London for a living. I agree with Gucci.

If the Buses in London where managed efficiently it would stop a lot of the gridlock that is happening especially the "Bendy Buses", as has been mentioned they are nearly always empty and are not fit for the roads in London you also have all the different bus companies plying the same route. The City of London is one big building site.

I will give you an example of the total lack of planing and communication to the general public.

Last Sunday i took a client to City Airport from Knightsbridge, the pick up was at 1400 Hrs his plane had a 1500 slot ( Private ) on a Sunday it should take 35-40 minutes. It took 1Hour and 45 minutes.

People that know London will know it is a straight forward run. The reason why it took so long was that TFL had closed the main highway out of London going East for a push bike race. I can't tell you the chaos it caused all the tourists around the Tower of London etc.

I listen to the local BBC radio for traffic updates nothing, there where no signs approaching the road closures warning you what was happening. This happens all the time in London.

The new extension to congestion charge has not worked either. One of the reasons is that all of the people that live in the area before they extended it now are able to drive into the old congestion area. A cab driver told me he was loosing money as the people where driving now as they don't have to pay the £8 charge anymore, it use to cost them £3-£4 to go from Knighsbridge to Mayfair.

 

[mb240]

I agree. Manchester is next, and other cities will follow.



We have to get away from the idea that each of us has an unalienable right to drive when and where we wish, for doing things that way will only lead to oblivion.

I don't live in the UK, but surely a paraphrase would be "we have to get away from the idea that each of us has an [in]alienable right to say what we wish" and so on.

Why does charging so much for pre-March 01 cars solve congestion? Surely the problem people buying cheapo 1.2 litre jap cars cloggin up the streets? A S55 from April 2001 is deemed not as damaging to the environment in monetary terms than a March 2001 S55?

Come on. It's so arbitrary.

 

[nick mercedes]

Do you really think that there is enough room in London and other major cities for everyone who wants to drive a car, to be allowed to?

People don't drive cars and vans around london because they want to, they do it because they have to.

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

I drive in London for a living. I agree with Gucci.

If the Buses in London where managed efficiently it would stop a lot of the gridlock that is happening especially the "Bendy Buses", as has been mentioned they are nearly always empty and are not fit for the roads in London you also have all the different bus companies plying the same route.

That last comment is completely wrong.

Unlike the rest of the country, where there has been deregulation and bus companies are free to compete, London has a system where TfL contracts bus routes out by area.

All the revenue is collected by the contracted companies and handed over to TfL. There is only one bus company on each set of routes. There are no other companies allowed to ply the same route. One route, one company. That's it.

 

[recycled]

The charge for a start should be called london road tax. not congestion charge.
if everyone buys a prius in london there will still be congestion.
Now i believe all the users should be taxed including the bus company and any emergency vehicles not on an emergency. Should stop all the police and their chippy runs.
this would force more efficient use of official car.
Lastly i have lived in rotterdam/hague and in germany.
the transport is heavily subsidised and people are taxed a lot for ,but it works brilliantly and it is safe and we can see where the money is going.
You just need to see the state of the shock absorbers and suspensions of german and dutch cars
A train journey of 1hr amsterdam to the hague cost me 14nlg in 2000 about £5.
I am ready to pay more tax because while i was in holland i never drove a car in the week, and i was never late ever.
You can plan your bus/train journey to the nearest minute.
but we all know what happens to all the extra taxes paid in this corrupt place.
Coupled with unplanned roadworks that take 6yrs to finish instead of six weeks as they cannot to seem to plan it properly
More freebies for executives and shareholders and the rich getting richer.
I mean the corruption is nearing african leaders standards.
our Mp just submitted close to £250.000 expenses for posting letters.
We all know that congestion needs to be tackled .
we do not just trust that the people tackling it have the interest of the public in their minds.
More like a fat retirement package and the attitude, let the next person coming up deal with it.