M1 Variable Speed Limits

[Peter T]

I'd been meaning to post a question and this has prompted me.
Do the cameras even work on the M1?

iirc, no-one has been caught by the M25 cameras in over a year now. I've travelled the M1 a couple of times in the last month and noticed little regard for the enforced limits, and not seen a camera flash (even though a guy passed me at what must have been 85 in a 60 limit as we went under a camera). The guys in the office reckoned they often cruise at 95 when the limit is displaying 60 and have not been caught.

So - has anyone actually been caught by an M1 camera?

I've seen cameras on the southbound side flashing while I was travelling northbound.

I have to say that what traffic there was on Sunday seemed to be mostly ignoring the variable speed limits, except me of course!

 

[Satch]

This is for the M25 but explains what it is all about and how it works.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu.../@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_185830.pdf

The theory is clear enough and overall it does serve to decrease average journey times but the price is speed limits that can bear little relation to your immediate traffic conditions and some dippy automated messaging seems to do little more than discredit the entire system and lead to driver confusion, frustration and it seems to me at least a damn sight more undertaking on those sections.

At times it is absolutely bizarre: At 03.00 on a Sunday morning with near empty road and absolutely no sign of any cones being laid, workforce in road, herd of stampeding Wildebeast, self & Mrs S. were gobsmacked to find mandatory speed limits near Heathrow posted across lanes as 20, 20, 20, 40 & 40 respectively.

The cameras are live but at present "discretion" is being exercised, which roughly translates as a wish to avoid screaming Daily Mail headlines

 

[Stratman]

From the direct.gov document. It would seem to answer the original question.

Frequently Asked Questions
Why do I see 60mph limits set when there appear to be low flows of traffic and the traffic is
moving freely?
Traffic often travels along the motorway in ‘platoons’. Drivers travelling between these
platoons may not be able to see the congested traffic in front or behind. By the use of
variable speed limits, traffic is prevented from catching up with the platoons in front of
them, thereby keeping the platoons apart and stopping the moving queue from growing.
This reduces the potential for flow breakdown to occur (when traffic can be brought to a
standstill).
The traffic plot below shows the platooning effect. This plot is for the northbound
carriageway, so traffic flows from Junction 10 to Junction 12, from the bottom to the top of
the plot. The numbers and shading in each cell show the flows per minute in the offside
lane. The red lines represent typical journeys through the section. The plot shows how
vehicles can travel between the platoons, with drivers only seeing low flows, despite high
overall flows on the motorway.

 

[E55BOF]

"near Heathrow posted across lanes as 20, 20, 20, 40 & 40"

It has often been like this late in the evening (21:30 onwards) between J14 and J15 in the last month. Often the signs warn of queues or congestion. There is NEVER any queue or congestion, either with or behind me, and the restriction is lifted just after J15. I then accelerate to "ahem, officer" speed, and there is NEVER any 'platoon' of cars for the next four or five miles.

The system on this section does not seem to be flexible or accurate enough when traffic flows are light, and it has deriorated to this state recently. The FAQ answer is doubtless often correct, but not in this case.

E55BOF (but 9-5 Aero BOF at the moment).

 

[Peter T]

"near Heathrow posted across lanes as 20, 20, 20, 40 & 40"

It has often been like this late in the evening (21:30 onwards) between J14 and J15 in the last month. Often the signs warn of queues or congestion. There is NEVER any queue or congestion, either with or behind me, and the restriction is lifted just after J15. I then accelerate to "ahem, officer" speed, and there is NEVER any 'platoon' of cars for the next four or five miles.

The system on this section does not seem to be flexible or accurate enough when traffic flows are light, and it has deriorated to this state recently. The FAQ answer is doubtless often correct, but not in this case.

E55BOF (but 9-5 Aero BOF at the moment).

Had the same thing the last time I arrived a LHR late at night. Driving round the M25 toward the M1, the speed limits came on. Light traffic, no obvious reason.

Then the right hand lanes started to close one by one untill we were down to 40mph and one left hand lane. There were, however, a small number of drivers who seemed to be "in the know" who continued on in the right hand lanes at "motorway speeds".

Eventually, all the signs, limits etc. just disappeared. No explaination, nothing, no accident, no roadworks, nothing.

Now maybe there had been an earlier problem which had been cleared up, but one would have thought there would be some evidence, but no, nothing.

 

[deian]

I forget things all the time.

There are street cleaners and control operators that get paid good money to not forget to do their job.

 

[StevenN]

I actually saw a camera flash go off today!
Not for me but someone else who may find out if there's film in the camera
This was in the morning
On the lunchtime run I witnessed E320 exit north at Trowel services but rather than apply the brake and give way to a HGV decided it best to travel about 100m up the hard shoulder just to get in front

 

[moonloops]

I watched some numpty in lane 4 on Saturday morning accelerating and then braking when getting near the camera markings on the road. Variable speed limit wasn't even on at this point...

 

[Deleted member 6183]

There are street cleaners and control operators that get paid good money to not forget to do their job.

No doubt but the OP was talking about worthless tossers.

 

[ben chod]

Ive always wondered this... so youre saying I can drive on the m25 and the m1 at motorway speeds without the cameras going off when theres a speed restriction?

 

[E55BOF]

Probably.... But if not, you'll find out the hard way. I prefer not to risk it, and keep (mostly) within the ACPO guidelines.

 

[wilsodg]

I watched some numpty in lane 4 on Saturday morning accelerating and then braking when getting near the camera markings on the road. Variable speed limit wasn't even on at this point...

For a while on the M25 (but no longer the case), even when the variable speed limit was not on, the cameras were set to flash at 81mph. I'm always wary about doing over 80 under cameras even when they are supposedly not operational..

 

[clk208]

I also saw my first flash when variable limit not operational on M25 this weekend.

I was on cruise at an indicated 76mph in the middle lane and a corsa or something crept past in the outside lane at 1-2mph faster. I guess it may have triggered based on his average speed between last 2 cameras?

 

[markjay]

Ive always wondered this... so youre saying I can drive on the m25 and the m1 at motorway speeds without the cameras going off when theres a speed restriction?

My understanding was that it's the other way around.... i.e. that the cameras on the gantries on the western section of the M25 are only operational when there's a variable speed limit in force, but they are not used for catching speeding drivers at other times.

Of course:

This may not be true

Even if it was true at the time they may have changed it since

There's no easy way of finding-out...

Therefore I keep my interest in this subject purely academic

 

[flango]

I also saw my first flash when variable limit not operational on M25 this weekend.

I was on cruise at an indicated 76mph in the middle lane and a corsa or something crept past in the outside lane at 1-2mph faster. I guess it may have triggered based on his average speed between last 2 cameras?

From the last information I had they are normally not active when the variable speed limit is not in operation, however the various police forces around the M25 have specific operations now and again to target speeders and request them to be operational 24/7 Threshold used to be 81mph.

There is also now another trend to have gantry cameras operational 24/7 and when the variable limit is not in force they are set to just over 100 mph to catch the " midnight maniacs" who blast through in the dead of night

 

[Rory]

Can anyone explain what goes on with these stupid limits?

They put them on when they're running low on candidates for the speed awareness courses that create jobs for the recently retired police officers and other hangers-on.

Colleague got done on the M42 variable at 6-something in the morning when the road was fairly clear but the signs were set for 40. He was doing 46.

On the course, most of the people there had been caught the same way. Complete waste of a business day for him (and us) and frustrating as these limits are (generally) about traffic management and nothing to do with safety.

 

[cinek]

I guess it may have triggered based on his average speed between last 2 cameras?

Specs cameras (average speed) do not flash.

 

[Stratman]

With many insurance companies now treating a speed awareness course the same as an endorsement, you might as well take the points. You don't lose a day and the ACPO, who run and profit from the courses (I know they used to, I don't know if it's still the case), don't get your money.

 

[Dieselman]

With many insurance companies now treating a speed awareness course the same as an endorsement,

I take it you mean by ignoring them.

I was insured with Admiral and collected a "special day out" pass. On renewal I was asked and declared it. They noted it but said it made no difference.

Admiral are the company internet folk law says charges for speed awareness courses.

They don't.

 

[Peter T]

Seemed like an appropriate time to resurrect this thread.

Took our son and his wife to Gatwick this morning, leaving at 05:00. Joined the M1 at J18 straight into 50 limit with right lane coned off, both sides, with average speed cameras. This went on for mile after mile after mile, so long that I lost count of how many miles it went on for. Nobody was working of course!

By the time we broke free of the 50 limit, it was but a few miles 'till we were into the variable speed limits which, of course, were set 60/50/40 mph, in no particular order, despite the trafic being light and free flowing.

It seems that the M1 is no longer a motorway. I can legally drive faster on the country lane down the road than I can on 3/4/5 lane so-called motorway.