Mercedes W114 250 Coupe - help!

[Bellow]

I assume the reason for advocating one of the new "thinner" synthetics would be to combat possible oil starvation of the cam lobes on start up and better heat performance- those V8s tend to run hot underbonnet temperatures after a while but may have the disadvantage of poorer additive solubility as you suggest.

Who, incidentally, is advocating 'one of the new "thinner" synthetics' for this engine? (Genuine question).

 

[Mike Walker]

^ following issues on a separate thread it sure wasn't me!

 

[Charles Morgan]

Snow and hail storm stops play. Got rear bumper finally separated from strengthener, with grinder, as small bumper bolts were just too far gone. The bits have been de-greased and now coated in rustbuster prior to painting with POR15. Then I can get them into the shed and out the way. When put back together they will also be waxoyled.

It is obvious why the bumpers rot so badly - the chrome bits are made up of two pieces with a trough in the middle where they join. Any salt or water that gets in will have a lovely incubation point in the depth of the trough where friction will rub the single layer of paint away, and the bumper strengthener doesn't even have any paint.

 

[Charles Morgan]

A question for anyone. It is obvious the rear windows are big leakers and with bits of trim difficult to get hold of, I am semi-tempted to seal them up to prevent water getting in. As they are unlikely ever to be opened (it will be a 2 seater in reality) as they have to be wound down by hand, does this really matter?

 

[grober]

This post goes into a bit more detail vis a vis the old v new debate and gives specific details what to look for.
M116/117 Oil Viscosity - MBWorld.org Forums

The article orginates from the Star, the magazine of the the magazine of the Mercedes-Benz Club of America, by the club's Technical Chairman, George Murphy. He's done his own research and the conclusion is similar. Oils formulated for modern engines do not provide adequate lubrication for older cars. He goes on to point out why.
Oil specifications are set in Europe by the ACEA and in North America by the API. Both these organizations have acted to restrict the amount of ZDDP, a zinc-based compund, in current specification oils because zinc poisons catalytic converters when the oil is burned, increasing emissions. ZDDP was present in the additive package of older formulations to increase anti-wear characteristics.
Mercedes-Benz issued a Factory Service Bulletin, S-0473-07C, last September that addresses this topic without actually mentioning it. MB defines 'older cars' in this context as 1997 and earlier. For these cars the bulletin says, in part: "Mercedes-Benz recommends the use of MB-approved engine oils...which meet ACEA and/or API classifications listed on the chart below. If a MB-approved or ACEA quality engine oil is not available, then an API quality engine oil meeting the below listed API classification can be used. Only engine oils (including synthetic) with any of the following classification grades, or combinations thereof, are approved."
The chart lists only these specifications as acceptable for gasoline engines: ACEA A3 and B3, and API SJ and SL. The specs for diesel engines are ACEA B2, B3 and B4, and API CF-4 and CG-4. Most current generation oils formulated for gasoline engines are API SM and are zinc-reduced.

The bottom line apears to be an oil that meets SJ/SL . Ansell and Murphy recommend oil formulated for diesels or motorcycles. A quick survey at my local store shows the only oil on their shelves that says it meets the SJ/SL spec also says it's formulated for four-stroke motorcycles. Other conventional alternatives include oil for high mileage engines, for example from Pennzoil. High mileage oils also have an additive package that includes a seal sweller, which can be a good thing in older vehicles. [Mobil 1 says it meets SJ/SL but it's an SM oil and the formulation marked for environmental compliance is zinc-reduced.]
As for viscosity, the MB service bulletin suggests you should select it on the basis of the lowest air temperature expected before the next oil change. For temperatures down to 23 and above 86 it suggests you might use something as heavy as a 15W-40, a 20W-40, a 15W-50 or a 20W-50.
My conclusions from that would be to run the lowest viscosity range oil that meets SJ/SL ---- mineral or synthetic. That might mean using a diesel engine oil ??? Synthetic Oils designed for VW "Pumpe-Düse engines might fit the bill.

ps if someone has bulletin S-0473-07C maybe they could post it as a PDF??

 

[Bellow]

My conclusions from that would be to run the lowest viscosity range oil that meets SJ/SL ---- mineral or synthetic.

Why the obsession with thin oil when.....

For temperatures down to 23 and above 86 it suggests you might use something as heavy as a 15W-40, a 20W-40, a 15W-50 or a 20W-50.[/COLOR]

....there is a clear recommendation toward thicker?
The drive for ever thinner oils is from the car manufacturers and has everything to do with improving fuel economy - at the expense of everything else.
The correlation between viscosity and load bearing capacity is well known. To protect cam followers from scuffing a decent base oil viscosity is required.

 

[Charles Morgan]

I'm using 20W-50 with good zinc content in my SM to protect the camshafts on the clear advice of my specialist (cardiac surgeon - best way to avoid a heart attack if they need replacing!).

 

[WDB124066]

I just called Mobil and discussed this with them, they say in no uncertain terms they have not reduced the zinc content to the point where ist isn't suitable for pre 1997 MB engines. How it meets both SM SJ/SL I didn't ask, but the man was adamant it was OK for a M104 without a cat. The service book gives CCMC grades and API SG, so cannot compare to anything on the back of the Mobil 1 bottle - but there are MB specs mentioned 229.3 and 229.1. Might get a hold of MBNZ and ask them...

 

[Bellow]

A question for anyone. It is obvious the rear windows are big leakers and with bits of trim difficult to get hold of, I am semi-tempted to seal them up to prevent water getting in. As they are unlikely ever to be opened (it will be a 2 seater in reality) as they have to be wound down by hand, does this really matter?

Nope, not one bit. Not to me anyway. If a subsequent owner wants the windows to open, close and seal, they can tackle the sealing issue. A purist may object - in which case invite them over to sort it for you.....

 

[John Jones Jr]

Just remember one of the well known features of the coupe was that all windows opened fully. Since you don't seem to be cutting corners may be you should continue on that course and have the rear windows operational. If, the time came to sell I can't imagine a potential buyer thanking you for making them non functional.

 

[Charles Morgan]

They would be operational, but the weather strip would be temporarily replaced by sealant until I sold. Most unrestored cars have issues as the windows seize up anyway - the guide rails corrode completely.

Having had all the windows down on my w124 coupe you only do it once!

 

[Druk]

Posted by Ray over on the Club forum. Nice color don't you think?

On The Road | Belstaff X Mr Porter | The Journal | Issue 204 | 19 February 2015 | MR PORTER

 

[John Jones Jr]

the weather strip would be temporarily replaced by sealant until I sold.

Seal away so.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Posted by Ray over on the Club forum. Nice color don't you think?

On The Road | Belstaff X Mr Porter | The Journal | Issue 204 | 19 February 2015 | MR PORTER

Lovely car and colour!

Lowered clearly, difficult to judge but I'd say it has 15s on (oh where could I get those lovely wheel centres in 15s?) and it just shows that the period solid colours (look at the gallery on the guys site) are stunning in their own right. Lots of food for thought, but a feast for the eyes too.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Here's the car - I was right on the 15s.

 

[Druk]

Lovely car and colour!

Lowered clearly, difficult to judge but I'd say it has 15s on (oh where could I get those lovely wheel centres in 15s?)

Correct. And I've got a full set in the garage, cost me £250 .
They're OE on the 600 model range. Trouble is they sit a bit proud when fitted to the standard 7J X 15" ET 37 Merc steelie. I'm still hoping to somehow engineer them onto the 107TD.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Found some here and here

 

[Charles Morgan]

Anyway, I'm going to stick with the 14s pro tem, too many variables as it is. Lowering is definitely on though.

 

[Bellow]

Here's the car - I was right on the 15s.

For certain a lovely car. I like the tone/shade but not so keen on the green. Green with a red interior?....

For people who wish to lust over late 60s MB colours this Pagoda site is excellent. It is genuinely very difficult even beginning to decide, but anything gold, brown, blue, green or red is out.

I just did. To my eyes the solid colours in light tones are standing out. If I had to make a hurried choice I doubt that I'd regret Arabian Grey.

Found some here and here

Preferring this direction to blingy alloys - what a relief!

Lowering is definitely on though.

Angle grinder to the springs. That's how I lowered my W123. The purists will.....

 

[grober]