Mercedes W114 250 Coupe - help!

[Charles Morgan]

The article does make the point attitudes might be different if the V8 was non Mercedes!

Perhaps a Chrysler V8 then...

 

[Druk]

According to some sources?? the W114 shares the same front subframe as the R107 so a Mercedes V8 transplant would be a possibility. [ There's something in the back of my mind about that subframe receiving some strategic re-inforcing in later R107 models so it would best to source the subframe from the V8 donor.

Correct on the subframe part No. (A107 330 12 42). However, all early 107 subframes including V8's suffer from the fracturing of the lower control arm bracket welds and a recall to fit a strengthening fillet was not done in most cases. It was never done on the 280 model because of the downpipe restricting access on the O/S.

ps. I would crawl naked over broken glass if you fitted a Yankee small block V8 and slammed the chassis but ONLY if you consented to turn up at the MK Concours with it. Add to that...and lick the sweat off your buttcrack if you painted it pink.



.

 

[trapperjohn]

Now THATS a GTG

 

[Charles Morgan]

Correct on the subframe part No. (A107 330 12 42). However, all early 107 subframes including V8's suffer from the fracturing of the lower control arm bracket welds and a recall to fit a strengthening fillet was not done in most cases. It was never done on the 280 model because of the downpipe restricting access on the O/S.

ps. I would crawl naked over broken glass if you fitted a Yankee small block V8 and slammed the chassis but ONLY if you consented to turn up at the MK Concours with it. Add to that...and lick the sweat off your buttcrack if you painted it pink.

.

Oh, now there's a dare!

 

[jamesfuller]

Carpet! Rear seat! Bumpers!

Get yourself a couple of these...Corbeau Alpine Bucket Seat - GSM Sport Seats - Bucket seats, racing seats, motorsport seats, roll cages and harnesses

A rear half cage and sit it over a set of mexican hats fitted with some chunky List 1b tyres.

Then just come over here and pick up the V8 im not using in mine!

 

[Charles Morgan]

Tell me more about the V8...

 

[219]

It might be quite fun to look at fitting the M100 6.3 motor

Somebody in the club dropped one into a Pagoda !

 

[jamesfuller]

Better, here is a vid of it in action...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6LTJXJe4Is

Its in a w126. 420 but its the latest incarnation so the highest compresion (circa 230ps)
Very reliable old thing, you just go to it and it starts, simple.
even lugging an S class around it has enough go to surprise the modern car drivers, sits at 140mph+ no problem.
Its still in the car so everything required is there.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Super!

So, of the engine options the M110 straight six used in the W114 or the M116 4.2 used in the R107.

M110 is 185 bhp and 240nm torque
M116 is 230 bhp and 310nm torque

The M116 will probably come with an ECU as will gearbox and dealing with that will be an issue. Auto transmission that will need sorting to fit, ? rear diff. Certainly the car will need brake upgrades.

M110 no doubt gearbox will fit. Diff ratio different.

Trying to avoid making this a real money pit, I think the most logical mod is the one Mercedes did - the M110. It offers much more usable performance than the standard 250, and in Kjet form it is an easily worked on engine, fully capable of later upgrades with Megasquirt.

Caledonian Brains Trust input welcome!

 

[Bellow]

What about the 3(ish) litre 24valve unit as fitted to 124s? Would it fit, and as a standalone with auto box (ie without requiring everything else from the car electrical in nature from speedo to cigar lighter)?
More efficient than the M110 and rivaling the early V8s for power - if not torque. It would look the part in that engine bay...

 

[Druk]

My thoughts on the M110 are largely unprintable. Gutless intractable beast below circa 3000rpm and greedy as hell. iirc 185bhp was only when fitted to R107. Some saloon versions were way down on this. Also surprisingly heavy although evidence is circumstantial for this. (R107 came up 1" at the front after OM606 fitted).

If you're going to mess with it do it with something worthwhile.

 

[Charles Morgan]

If you're going to mess with it do it with something worthwhile.

Noted!

 

[219]

My thoughts on the M110 are largely unprintable. Gutless intractable beast below circa 3000rpm and greedy as hell. iirc 185bhp was only when fitted to R107. Some saloon versions were way down on this. Also surprisingly heavy although evidence is circumstantial for this. (R107 came up 1" at the front after OM606 fitted).

If you're going to mess with it do it with something worthwhile.

IIRC , the M110 installations in the R/C107 and W114 were the same , but differed from W123/126 , which came later .

It was a good engine 40 years ago , but time has moved on .

I know the earlier V8 engines (M116) had a narrower angle between the bays , but still regard the 500 M117 as the best version . The back ends of the 114/115 and 116/126 were pretty much the same so I guess diffs etc should swap
Ok ?

I also know that modders have put V8 engines ( 500's and 560's ) into W123/124 cars and I'd guess the 114 engine bay is not dissimilar .

 

[Bellow]

Diff ratios are on the 'net - on the /8 site I think. I think interchangeability between models is also covered. Don't recall any available that carried a ratio high enough for a V8 but I could easily be mistaken.

 

[John Jones Jr]

From what I recall according to one guy in the States the M117 drops straight in the W114/5 provided an M117 sump pan, engine mount arms & oil filter housing are used from the V8 R107 along with custom exhaust manifolds. As already mentioned the W115 & the R107 seemingly share the same front cross member.

 

[Charles Morgan]

What about the 3(ish) litre 24valve unit as fitted to 124s? Would it fit, and as a standalone with auto box (ie without requiring everything else from the car electrical in nature from speedo to cigar lighter)?
More efficient than the M110 and rivaling the early V8s for power - if not torque. It would look the part in that engine bay...

I think the M104 3litre 24 valve is a difficult fit. A 3 litre M103 on the other hand was used in the R107 so in theory should be fine.

I'm coming round to the notion that either do something meaningful or just leave. The latter obviously depends upon the condition of the engine and transmission in the car as it is, and what it is like in stock form (I feel a trip to test drive a 250 coming on).

There's little point in spending a decent amount of money to get a car back to original to find original is unsatisfying.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Rear bumper breakthrough! The bolts holding the strengthener are on Niemoller's parts list (as per Grober's post) and having removed the rubber, the bumper is fine, only one hanger, and a strengthener required. Despite five days soaking I think these bolts are a goner so will grind them out.

Amusingly, in hunting for the grinder I found the Allard spares box (untouched from me buying it), and in it, the two radiator fairings needed to prevent airflow going round the radiator. Needless to say I wish I'd found them when the car front grill was off for the respray, but always nice to have the original parts - should never have been taken off.

 

[Druk]

I think the M104 3litre 24 valve is a difficult fit. A 3 litre M103 on the other hand was used in the R107 so in theory should be fine.

The subframe shape was changed slightly in facelift 107's to accommodate the sump of the M103. Not a lot and a big hammer would do the job but it's not a straight drop-in.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Free at last!

With the grinder (I love the smell of burning hair in the morning) came the realisation that I can save the other bumper hanger by grinding out the bolts on that too. This is a good result as they are €37 each, pre-delivery and not easily found.

The last time I used my grinder was to remove the front bay window grills on my flat in Kensington to make it more attractive to sell. What I hadn't realised was that burning metal grinds and glass form a really solid bond, so I got a nice tinted mottled window effect, and the grills (all about 6'X4') were really heavy and gravity works well when the retaining bars are removed.

 

[Charles Morgan]

To add to my childlike Christmas excitement the first of my parcels from Turkey arrived. An enormous tube filled with all the side chrome bits in perfect nick. Once the other arrives I can finish the headlights and box those away.

Of course paying for this is a bit more of a challenge. A hunt around the back of my sofa and in all my jacket and coat pockets amassed the grand total of 62 pence. (how I missed the 2 pence down the sofa last time I was in need of some quick dosh is a big mystery).