Middle Lane Hoggers E-petition

[Mercy1]

so next time you undertake beware it's your life you are playing with + that of the other innocent people around you.

As for never coming to grief yet there's always a first time and it's others who will have to pickup your pieces

...i did say, I never undertake...

 

[tedzwedz]

If the far left lane is empty, I drive in it. If that means undertaking those in the middle lane...so be it.

One safety advantage of having a 911, you are past the "danger" before you know it, (even undertaking ;-) )

 

[clever dicky]

The only argument I can think of 'WHY' and I have experienced this, especially on an unfamiliar stretch of motorway, very often the inside lane will become a turn off for another exit. And lets be honest, road signs arn't always the clearest especially if the place your going isnt on the sign but your uncertain. It's easier to move in to the inside lane than move out of it.

Another one I just thought of is getting boxed in. If you ever catch up to a slow moving lorry or bus etc on the inside lane, or your in the inside lane and one pulls in front of you, its very much harder to get enough speed to overtake and move to the next lane with vehicles flying past at sometime twice your speed.
(how often do we see a car trapped behind a slow moving lorry in the inside lane and we whizz past so they dont get pull out in front of us. ) EH? Come on, own up.

 

[MOCAŠ]

Another one I just thought of is getting boxed in...

(how often do we see a car trapped behind a slow moving lorry in the inside lane and we whizz past so they dont get pull out in front of us. ) EH? Come on, own up.

Both are instances of failing to read the road ahead, a key part of the skill of motorway driving.

The driver who is trapped behind a slow-moving lorry should have moved out into the middle lane in good time when he realised the gap was closing. If the middle lane was too busy for him to do this, then his only option is to stay put behind the lorry until a gap presents itself.

Drivers already in the the middle lane can also help here (as I tend to), by keeping an eye on traffic in the inside lane, and moving into the outside lane if they observe a car that is going to need to overtake a slower vehicle up ahead.

 

[artyman]

Just a bit of consideration needed by drivers, the same as pulling into the middle lane to allow those joining to occupy the inside lane. It's no big deal to ease back a touch to allow someone to move out into the middle lane to pass something, perhaps if folk did that more often people wouldn't feel the need to hog the middle lane. Perhaps it's the fear of being boxed in there that creates this behaviour.

 

[JimDut]

I'd be going a much, much bigger step than just motorway driving.

The entire Driving Lesson structure needs to be radically improved, sooner rather than later.

Quite simply, the level of tuition for new drivers should be Advanced Driving.

The biggest issue for ANY driver is their observation skills. A high percentage of drivers have very short forward vision and barely any side and rear.

I've read some of the comments in this thread and the issues are easily dealt with by improved observation... that would virtually negate the scenarios of ever getting 'trapped', cutting people up, braking hard, swerving and any other crazy manoeuvres drivers make... on all roads not just the motorway.

Apart from meaning people would actually understand legislation a little more, not to mention common sense and road courtesy, it would drastically reduce collisions, increase the overall flow of traffic AND probably save the economy millions (and I don't believe I'm exaggerating on that figure either)

The crazy thing is, this is so easily achievable, instructors would be trained to advanced level (yes there's lots that aren't and worryingly know little about advanced driving).

The theory updated to become as practicable as possible

And finally the Driving Assessment/Test covering all aspects of advanced driving, with an equally strict pass or fail.

I appreciate there would be more cost to the learner initially, however potentially saves them money in the long run, by not having a collision, or even their or other's lives.

If only...

 

[rf065]

instructors would be trained to advanced level (yes there's lots that aren't and worryingly know little about advanced driving).

I see a lot of instructors who know very little about driving full stop, let alone advanced driving. I think the standard of driving instruction is another part of the problem here.

Russ

 

[clever dicky]

Both are instances of failing to read the road ahead, a key part of the skill of motorway driving.

The driver who is trapped behind a slow-moving lorry should have moved out into the middle lane in good time when he realised the gap was closing. If the middle lane was too busy for him to do this, then his only option is to stay put behind the lorry until a gap presents itself.

Drivers already in the the middle lane can also help here (as I tend to), by keeping an eye on traffic in the inside lane, and moving into the outside lane if they observe a car that is going to need to overtake a slower vehicle up ahead.

Maybe so but with plenty of instances Im trying to understand why, (rather than just moan and criticise, which is all to easy for everyone to do)

Sure you could chalk up 99% of rta's to failure to observe or anticipate but it isn't always the case that you can predict what someone will do, and often with dire consequences. So most of the time, perhaps, people are just playing safe and sticking to the middle lane.??
I don't know.
I know from occasion i've been out of my depth on motorway intersections not knowing where to go or which lane to be in to go where I need to, M6 manchester ring road (or there abouts in particular). Maybe if someone is hogging the middle lane its a good indication they dont know that particular stretch of road well and might just be following others by keeping out of it.

 

[Dieselman]

Maybe if someone is hogging the middle lane its a good indication they dont know that particular stretch of road well and might just be following others by keeping out of it.

What..?? That means either their vision is extremely poor or they are incompetent to drive.
What if the car in front is going to Dover and they want Scotland?

 

[flango]

I see a lot of instructors who know very little about driving full stop, let alone advanced driving. I think the standard of driving instruction is another part of the problem here.

Russ

I totally agree a lot of ADI's do not even have the basic skills to teach, the ADI course to become a driving instructor is a joke for today's modern traffic situations. I had to change my daughters driving Instructor twice because the first 2 did not have the necesscary basic skills to teach safe driving.

As well as toughening up the actual driving test they really need to toughen up the ADI test regime before they are registered. I've been into advance driving skills for the last 30 years and the quality of some instructors still shocks me

I take my full UK driving test every 2 years, my advanced driving test every 3 years and my security driving test every 5 years as part of my ability to practice and teach as an Instructor.

 

[Shude]

I know from occasion i've been out of my depth on motorway intersections not knowing where to go or which lane to be in to go where I need to, M6 manchester ring road (or there abouts in particular). Maybe if someone is hogging the middle lane its a good indication they dont know that particular stretch of road well and might just be following others by keeping out of it.

The M60 is particularly bad for this as it's several motorways joined into one. Some junctions have proper turn offs and some are spurs, it's not obvious which way it will go until a mile from the junction so middle-laners are very common. Half of the junctions you are forced to change lane in order to remain on the motorway, except for the one near Bury where you are forced to turn off the motorway in order to remain on it!

 

[219]

You are quite right Mocas, sorry when I re read my post I agree my use of terminology was quite poor

You are quite correct there is no "offence" of undertaking however in law there is an "act" of undertaking, which in the situation we are discussing would be a car travelling past the hogger car in lane 2 in lane 1 and then returning to lane 2. This is what magistates consider as the "act" of undertaking. It could obviously also apply to a car undertaking in lane 2 and then moving back to lane 3, or lane 3 into 4, you get the picture

That could be interpreted as saying that , in order to carry out the 'act' of undertaking , you would have to start off in a position of being in the same lane as the 'hogger' , then move over to the lane on the left , pass on the left and , finally , move back over to the right - effectively a 'mirror image' of a normal overtake .

It could , perhaps , be argued then , that a driver proceeding along lane 1 at a constant speed who happens to pass a slower vehicle in lane two , without ever moving into lane two , does not carry out the act of undertaking . Even a driver who joins a carriageway , entering lane 1 , and happens to pass a slower vehicle in lane 2 ( the slower vehicle may even have moved out to allow the driver to join from the slip road ) , subsequently moving into lane 2 to pass something slower in lane 1 , arguably has not completed this 'act' .

My own feelings are that those who fail to use lanes properly , and fail to keep left when they could make the same progress there , are most at fault since there would be no 'undertaking' possible if they kept to the left .

The majority of drivers who 'undertake' are simply trying to make reasonable and legal progress along a road , despite being obstructed by a slower driver who could , and should , move over to allow themselves to be overtaken .

I won't say that I never pass on the left , in some circumstances it is permissable , usually I will move from lane 1 to lane 3 and back to pass a lane two hogger , but I have seen me pass them on the left if exiting shortly ahead and it seems clear they are not ; I have also cruised along lane 1 of near deserted motorways past nitwits traveling in lane 3 at a lower speed with no reason to be there .

Here in Strathclyde I have observed traffic cops deal with lane two hoggers by coming up fast in lane 3 then 'swooping' across their bows towards lane 1 , it does strike me as not a little unsafe , effective as it sometimes might be .

I have at times felt like getting one of those dot matrix signs for my rear window , but I doubt that it could store enough messages for every situation ; nor might some of my thoughts be printable

 

[corned]

I have at times felt like getting one of those dot matrix signs for my rear window , but I doubt that it could store enough messages for every situation ; nor might some of my thoughts be printable

Why not do it properly and get hold of the roadside matrix signs so you can post colourful language on those.

Such as "Get out of middle lane, you feckwits!". Or "Spot the feckwit - see middle lane".

Oh, I could have fun with that...

 

[deltashad]

Scotland is horrific for its outside lane drivers. Obviously I realise England and Wales have their fair share but Scottish roads are in a league of their own.

I do most of my driving North of the border, unfortunately the majority of our roads are Dual Carriageway. Some people find it perfectly acceptable to complete a full journey (I have seen 10 miles on many occasions) in the outside lane causing major traffic disruption.

If they pulled into the empty lane for a short period of time they would make the world a much more stress free place to be. I have heard all the arguments, the fact is they are breaking the Law, its an act of oppressive aggression inciting others obeying the Law to act out of character. They are also bloody dangerous as they are not making any effort to drive with any awareness.

Recently I was driving between Inveralmond and Broxburn roundabouts, a distance if around 2.5 miles. I followed a car which overtook at the start of the journey and continued in the same lane (empty inside lane). A police car then joined the road and the car I was following (nothing in the inside lane) stayed in the incorrect lane, I realised this was one of those people who find it perfectly acceptable to stay in the wrong lane in a 70mph dual carriageway doing 65mph. There was a fair queue behind us, I decided to undertake the car at 70mph in full view of the Police car. A risky move yes, but to my delight the Police car put on its lights and stopped the outside laner.

I drive quickly, averaging 80mph, sometimes I drive quicker, sometimes slower, I use my mirrors. If somebody approaches me from behind I pull in at the safest most reasonable gap and let them passed. This is the Law. If someone gets in my way and deliberately holds me up then I'll give them a period of around a mile to let me passed. If they refuse I put the car in Sport mode and pass them on the wrong side. If they flash me I will slow down, then I will put my Scooshers on for a while, then continue my journey in the correct manner. I have not been caught yet.

 

[brucemillar]

I drive weekly:

M2
M25
M11
A1/M
M62

Then return Journey.

M11 - A1/M appears to me to be the practise ground for Synchronised Truck driving. You can sit for miles behind the same two trucks as they slow down in perfect unison going up the hill before setting of down the hill linked together by invisible bunjee rope. All of this is done safe in the knowlefge that they have accumalated a giant snake of traffic behind them.

Aaaaarrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

[gtvlusso]

I think the issue is a combination of confidence and laziness:

1, confidence - driving in the middle lane give you lots of options

2, don't have to move from driving lane to first overtaking lane when passing a junction with merging traffic

So, for me, I just see the middle lane bunnies as non-confident drivers who, perhaps, are way out of their depth and are too lazy/stupid to be able to deal with merging traffic.

I, generally, don't drive above the speed limit at all on a motorway - fairly slow and steady sort of person - if I come across a slower moving middle lane hog, I don't bother to move across 2 lanes most of the time - I just undertake. Not the best thing to do, but ultimately, my lane is simply moving faster and I have not made any aggresive attempt to undertake or moved to undertake.

 

[mattc]

whilst I don't agree with it I think many drivers dont go into the inside lane because:

a) they are worried they will get 'trapped' behind a truck and not be able to pull out (poor anticipation clearly)
b) the inside lane is more deeply rutted than others due to truck activity and people don't want to drive in that lane as they are too slipshod to drive out of the ruts.

 

[LESTAYLOR]

If the far left lane is empty, I drive in it. If that means undertaking those in the middle lane...so be it. My reasoning being, the middle lane was slower than the lane I was in. How often have you been in the middle lane undertaking traffic in the right hand lane.

Relax...go with the flow...you will NEVER change the way people drive.

I know it's illegal...so shoot me.

I have to agree. I do this. I too know it is wrong. I never do it with trucks, but the ignorant driver who is scared to drive to close to the trees is a problem. My guess is they have a problem with their vision and the safest place 'they think' is in the middle of the road. Middle lane hoggers are often white line huggers too.

 

[corned]

As has been said before I'm sure, this is simply a legacy of poor standards of driver tuition.

If everyone had been educated properly in motorway driving then the problem would be non-existent, or nearly so. But they haven't, so the problem is never going to go away. The rest of the problem falls under the heading "You can't educate pork".

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Might help if we distinguish between peak and off peak motorway driving. Off peak, quieter times it makes absolute sense to pull over ASAP.

However, when the road is busy but moving at normal speed it's different. This is different Because lane 1 is unlikely to be moving at 60mph due to lorries speed limiters, lane 2 Becomes a substitute lane 1 for those who wish to travel over 60. Lane 3 remains for overtaking.

Not ideal by any means but it's what we have.