My 59k mile W202 C200 classic (auto)

[Wigglesworth]

FYI: Mercs have 1 foglight as that they don't look like they are braking.

I suppose that actually makes a bit of sense now you say it that way
At least with the high level brake light fitted it's less of an issue with people mistaking the fogs for brake lights.
I can't actually remember the last time I have truly needed to use the fog lights on a car. I do feel a little safer with fogs at both sides if they need to be on though.

 

[Wigglesworth]

Had a bit of a concentration lapse the other night while driving (oops)!
I clipped a curb with the left front tyre at 30mph :fail

Now I haven't buckled a wheel .... but ... the car now pulls to the left noticeably
I have changed the AMG style II 15's for a good set of perfectly balanced alloys that I had spare, until I get the new issues dealt with + we found that 2 of the AMG wheels have a bit more runout than would be liked. when they got balanced last (they were like this when I got them).

The biggest issue that I now have is the appearance of a horrid wheel wobble felt through the steering! If say you are on the motorway, then gently accelerate to 70mph indicated. A wheel shudder starts at about 65mph and gets dramatically worse up to 80mph indicated (which is about 73 mph).
Take the car to an open stretch of private land and nail it up to 80mph and the shudder is hardly noticeable however still present!

At the MOT I was advised that the steering damper was ejecting it's oil and would need replacing very soon which is planned for tomorrow.
Now could the shudder be due to me completely killing the steering damper off when I clipped the curb? And could the left pull just simply be that I have screwed up the front alignment??

Nothing actually appears visually bent, so I think* everything is ok. But I am worried that I have made myself a rather large repair bill!

The moral of the story is that I was a very stupid person and got in the car while I was too tired. I didn't feel that bad when I set out but none the less it could have been much worse had the road been busy!

Any pointers as to what I need to check over would be great before I end up spending a fortune to fix a possibly simple issue.

 

[Wigglesworth]

Steering damper fitted today! Got a Febi unit from ecp this afternoon for less than £30.
This is what came off the car....


This had ejected all of it's oil and had no resistance at all, in fact it was like one of those old bicycle pumps it was that bad.
The steering is much tighter but the car still pulls left noticeably. Also the steering still groans when turning right. I'm guessing that is going to be the left hand lower ball joint as not changed that one yet.

Been to a few independents today regarding tracking and have had a unified response of the geometry is out (camber as well as toe). The car is booked in with Hawleys tomorrow afternoon to have the adjustments made and to double check that nothing is bent.

A costly mistake this has turned out to be as we have also found play in the wheel bearings at the front..... it's very minor but I can't seem to find out if the front bearings are adjustable.

 

[grober]

I'm going to have a guess --- you might have damaged the suspension ball joint at the top of the suspension upright-- if its gone you need to replace the upper arm as the ball joint comes as a complete assembly with the arm. That or perhaps the outer ball joint of one of your track rod ends. One way to test a track rod end ball joint or indeed any of the several ball joints on the steering linkage is to get under the car- still resting on its wheels and get an assistant to rock the steering gently side to side [ steering lock off!] while cupping any suspect ball joint in your hand. You will feel any play which will not be obvious to the naked eye because of the boot.

[ important! its vital to have an assistant who knows exactly how much to rock that steering because excessive movement could cause your hand to be trapped / crushed by nearby components.]
rebuilt my entire W124 steering assembly using this method.

 

[Andy_C]

I've taken the small amount of play out of my front bearings. Doesn't take long once you've got the dust cap off the bearing.

Andy

 

[Wigglesworth]

Situation update.....
Took the car in to Hawleys tyres at Halfway in Sheffield this afternoon and left the car with them for a couple of hours or so.

The good news is that they have inspected the front suspension and made adjustments to the tracking accordingly. They showed me all of the numbers (of which I didn't understand mostly) and summed up the issues.
The front passenger side (the one I hit the curb with) was at 1.10 or close to that effect and the drivers side front was at 2.80..... he said that was something to do with when the wheel was straight and I had knocked off the alignment a bit.
Interestingly the camber was apparently about bang on with the passenger side front with a reading of something like 0.53, however he did say that the wheel is a little further back than maybe it should be. This was within tolerance though.
The drivers side however is a different story with the camber .... that wheel is sat more upright than it should be and the wheel was sat in the right place.
This again was within tolerance apparently so i suppose that's a good thing?
If I remember rightly both sides tracking ended up at 1.70 or close to that?

The other week I needed the spare wheel for the spares car that I collected out of my boot, I was very surprised to find a fully inflated and good tyre, sat on an extremely bent steel wheel! Maybe some time before I purchased the car it had the drivers side front wheel run into something hard enough to damage something?

I will try and investigate the upper ball joints in the suggested way as it sounds like a fairly straight forward affair..... but I think that this is the beginning of a full front suspension rebuild looming.

For now, Hawleys have managed to get my car to drive in a straight line again. The shudder through the steering has almost completely vanished too.
If you are in the Sheffield area, Hawleys tyres at Halfway are really good. Nice and friendly and know what they are talking about (which makes a change from some places round here).

Also I am told that the steering groaning will be caused by a bush on the steering arm somewhere??? Not feeling particularly well at the moment, so I wasn't paying all that much attention.
Does anyone know what this bush will be called so I can get it replaced?

I was also told that the very slight play in the front bearings was totally normal on the W202 and not to adjust it out by a local and trusted MB specialist.... is that true?

Thanks for the suspension tips always appreciated!

 

[Wigglesworth]

I've taken the small amount of play out of my front bearings. Doesn't take long once you've got the dust cap off the bearing.

Andy

Is there a how to lurking anywhere for this? as the Haynes book of lies is as much use as a door stop made of dog eggs

 

[190]

There will be a spec for a few thou of end play to be measured with a dial gauge. The main thing is to back the brake pads off so they are not interfering with the measurement or the feel if you do it that way.

 

[Wigglesworth]

Front centre drag link now changed along with the idler arm bush and track rod ends!
This is the new drag link, track rod ends and the idler arm bush is in the bag.....


It was one of those jobs that was both easy and difficult at the same time. It took 3 of us the best part of the evening to swap everything over.
The old drag link had 0 resistance in every single joint and the arms that the track rod ends attached to just flopped around all over the place.

The tracking has obviously got to be set today. Instantly the steering felt far tighter even with the wheels off the floor!

The steering groan has nearly gone away too, that has to be the lower ball joint on the left now as every single component apart from the steering coupler has been renewed now.

Also adjusted the play out of the front wheel bearings, lovely and easy to do. Repacked them after cleaning all the solid green grease out. Absolutely no play in them at all now so should track up nicely I would hope.

I will post a picture of the removed drag link later when I get the chance

 

[Wigglesworth]

Well this was the removed drag link, complete with track rod ends......


Very floppy indeed! The only joint on it that isn't flopping around is the stationary link to the steering box arm!

And this is the idler arm bush that was removed, complete with stupid torx bolt that is happily replaced with a normal bolt in the kit from MB....


Had the car tracked up this afternoon at around lunch time. Both wheels were pointing in opposite directions which is pretty much standard when changing steering components yourself!
I have to say, the result is fantastic! The judder is gone, the pulling to the left is gone and the front of the car now actually feels like it's attached to something.
Very happy so far but there is still more things in need of replacement like the upper/lower arms, springs and shocks to be perfect.... but they can wait for now

 

[JohnBell]

Awesome to see a w202 being cherished, well done sir.

 

[grober]

Excellent progress.

 

[Wigglesworth]

I am faced with yet more frustration with the car while striving to get the front end including the steering as close to perfect as I can on a now 20 year old car!

Today we replaced the left hand side lower ball joint as this didn't get done with the other side earlier this year.
Now I hoped that this would fix the steering groan completely...... it hasn't! Has not even made a blind bit of difference to it.
To sum up this car has now had the following items replaced over the last few weeks...
> steering damper
> complete centre drag link
> both track rod ends
> both lower ball joints
> idler arm bush
What's frustrating is that the steering groan is there still. This still remains to be an issue 'only' when turning right (like a small roundabout) or when going from full left lock to full right lock.
I'm not sure if there is much more that is able to be replaced relating to the steering system if I'm honest!

The next biggest bug bear that I have is the massive inability by now 2 garages to get the tracking spot on! It has now been in 3 times and has been altered every single damn time! First time was at Hawleys tyres when it drifted off and started pulling left after I brushed the curb... second time was again at Hawleys but it very quickly became obvious that the wheel was too far to the right and the car was pulling left still
Third time was at Dexel tyres after all of the new parts were fitted and Hawleys had supposedly tracked it spot on.... now the wheel is slightly too far to the left, the car is pulling left slightly and the outer edge of the left tyre is feathering
How hard is it to track these cars and sort out the steering angle? Needless to say my pockets are feeling the burn at the moment.

Anyway this is how the underside up front is starting to shape up...

The damp on the sump is from the cap failing a while ago, its not actually leaking.

And back to this groaning steering issue.... as seen above I have ruled most of the common faults out. So naturally I am starting to look in the less obvious places!
First up, the power steering pump/fluid. I'm told that this fluid should be green and not atf. The system was around 90ml too full so I got the level down by using a 10ml medicine syringe (the handy thing about having children).
This is what came out off the reservoir....

Certainly not at all green!

And held up to the light....

Certainly a very red tinge to it and it smells just like used atf (the dexron III kind at that too).
Could this be something to do with the groan I wonder? The wrong grade of oil and in need of a change?

The other thought in mind is certainly the upper arms at the front. This is the only other point that I can think of that is under load while turning, particularly that handy ball joint that can't simply be swapped out!

Any further ideas welcomed at this stage on all of the above issues. I have already tried the typical bloke things of ... swearing at it allot, threatening it with all manor of scary recycling options, throwing money at it and sending it to garages where apparently 'competent' people are supposed to fix things. Nothing so far has resolved the issues and my funds are a little low until the beginning of next month

 

[KillerHERTZ]

Did you fix the alloy?

 

[Wigglesworth]

Did you fix the alloy?

Luckily I didn't buckle the alloy as I hit the curb with the tyre. Had the wheel checked for balance and it's still as it was before.... thankfully.


This is the tyre on the front left.....


I can't seem to match this type of tyre wear though....

That is the very outer tread rib. Feathering is the best way I can think to describe it.
If it's bad toe adjustment then that would explain the left pulling.

 

[grober]

That looks like a very old tyre. You may well have some sort of weird feathering going on but may be accelerated by tread degradation. What's the date of the tyre's manufacture- should be on the tyre sidewall in the form of 4 digits e.g.

= 9th week of 2007

 

[Wigglesworth]

3710 on the fronts and 3012 on the rear..... I make that getting on 7 years old up front and around 5 years on the rear!
Brilliant bit of info there thank you very much

In other news.....
Sorted the wacky steering issues but it's cost me £72!
Here is the sheet from the garage this morning...

Basically the front end was getting tracked to a wonky rear end :fail I must say I feel like asking for some refunds as they haven't done what was asked at the other garages!

Also came across this wonderful, handy, exploded diagram of the rear suspension setup with adjustment points! Turns out that the W124, W201 and W202 are essentially the same at the rear!
So here it is....


New tyres are on the cards anyway all round due to overall condition. They are far from illegal but the front left is ruined and they are all obviously old. Bit skint now though.

 

[grober]

If you are looking at the "fiscally stretched" end of the tyre manufacturer spectrum a tyre that suits that vintage of motor might be found in the Kumho catalogue. Quiet soft riding tyre fits the relaxed nature of the W202.
Where to Buy - Kumho Tyre UK

 

[Wigglesworth]

Another one of the reasons I am short of cash this month.
Last week the auxiliary fan switch failed, after 4 months of trying to get them working properly. The car decided it was time that the fans were going to work permanently

This was the offending part once removed from the car ...



And I was very surprised to find that the sensor doesn't actually make contact with the coolant in any way.....


Rather strange but I guess it does the job needed.

New part ....

And part price and part number on receipt....


One of the things that is seemingly impossible to get an answer for is the normal running temperature for the M111.945.
My car seems to run between 90-100degrees. That seems maybe a little on the high side to me, however, the auxiliary fan switch is 110 degrees to switch on the auxiliary fans.
If someone has experience of what temperature the M111 2.0 runs with the viscous fan fitted I would be interested as to the normal temperature of these engines.

 

[grober]

Without air con I would suggest around 80-85 degrees. There are a myriad of reasons for a car running hotter than normal. Faulty radiator/coolant reservoir coolant cap or any leaks in any part of the coolant system leading to reduced pressure. Partially choked radiator. Remote infrared thermometer will pick up any cool spots or simply your hand on the radiator fins. The viscous coupling will eventually lose fluid and may not be driven hard enough- it always rotates from inertia but can be easily stopped if the clutch is not engaged----you need the carrot test- wait for the engine to heat up by leaving it idling with bonnet shut [ no forced rad ventilation via slipstream] the fan should then start to roar as the coupling engages - there's a noticeable change in note if its fully engaged-- then try to stop it with a carrot [ soft enough object] it should shred the carrot if it stops the fan the coupling is away. After that its the water pump possibly.
If its the radiator a back flush with a hose might help but you will have to disconnect the auto transmission pipes which link into a HEAT EXCHANGER COIL inside the radiator.

ps there is also the possibility that your coolant temperature readout itself is faulty but its unlikely.