New Mini Clubman - hit or miss?

[Martin]

You can't please everyone but I think it has just the right mix of retro design from the classic 60s/70s Mini Travellers & Clubman estates blended with the modern MINI. The reaction on the Mini forums which have had several months to get used to the Clubman is now mainly positive. As always the future sales will decide if they got it right.
A while back Ford used to invite the general publics opinion by holding 'design clinics' for new models but it proved most people choose the safe/bland option rather than new or unusual design. The end result was some of the most boring Fords ever, ie. the late 80s/ early 90s Escorts/Fiestas and first Mondeo. When they abandoned that policy they produced the Focus which became a top seller. Sometimes we need to be led by a good designer and often find what we initially dislike grows on us. It would be interesting to take this poll again in a years time!

 

[Dave Lewis]

I think it looks great. Interesting, different, and practical. Mrs L wants one. It'll be a hit. I give it foive!

 

[Rob77]

It looks like an ugly freak. I had an original Clubman and only because it was cheap - it was ugly too (and rubbish lol)

 

[verytalldave]

Depends on what parameters you use to judge............

Would I buy one? - NO
Will it be a commercial success - Probably - in fact almost certainty

So as far as BMW are concerned it is a hit.
As far as I am concerned its a miss.

 

[ShinyF1]

And a rear single 'suicide door' that opens into the road...

"No we're definitely not re-engineering it for the RHD market...."

 

[pammy]

And a rear single 'suicide door' that opens into the road...

"No we're definitely not re-engineering it for the RHD market...."

I must be missing something cos I don't get what you're saying. It has two rear doors from what I can see and I don't hear of many people diving out the back doors of any car with rear doors. I don't see those doors as any more dangerous for opening into the road area than normal car doors.
The rear doors are no different to any hatchback access - they are not generally used for people access into and out of the car.

 

[verytalldave]

And a rear single 'suicide door' that opens into the road...

"No we're definitely not re-engineering it for the RHD market...."

.....................well the steering wheel has been moved, so thats not entirely true.
What they REALLY mean is "we want to maximise profits and do as little conversion work as we can get away with".
So basically its 2 fingers in the air to the UK.

Interesting reading.............
http://users.pandora.be/worldstandards/driving on the left.htm

 

[verytalldave]

I must be missing something cos I don't get what you're saying. It has two rear doors from what I can see and I don't hear of many people diving out the back doors of any car with rear doors. I don't see those doors as any more dangerous for opening into the road area than normal car doors.
The rear doors are no different to any hatchback access - they are not generally used for people access into and out of the car.

Its the drivers side suicide door thats the contentious point.

 

[pammy]

Its the drivers side suicide door thats the contentious point.

Yeah - but what's suicidal about it that doesn't already exist on other cars/vehicles? That's what I don't understand. I might just be being a bit thick - but I don't get it Is it the rear passenger off side door we are discussing? as apposed to the rear vehicle doors. Either way, why is it any more dangerous than exisiting ones? Like the RX8, to use the rear doors you have to have the front doors open - so they are not suicide.

Heres a useful article on it

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/202578/mini_traveller.html

btw - I have to say it looksa lot better in the colours in post #11 than the Smart Forfour colours.

 

[BlackC55]

What a horrible car.

Ugly and van-like.

I don't like mini's anyway.

 

[verytalldave]

Perhaps this photo will explain better than a thousand words...........

"Suicide door" is the name given to any rear hinged door on a car. Many older cars had them. And they could be opened as you were going along.
Opening a rear hinged door at 60mph is NOT a good idea - hence the term.
And the name has stuck.
We KNOW the door cant be opened until the drivers door is opened - a la RX8. Its just a term.

 

[pammy]

And as I said - this set up is not new, it already exists and I don't hear of people dying because of it - so to call it suicidal seems a tad OTT. I can't see how it's any more dangerous than any other rear passenger door. In fact I would go so far as to say they are less dangerous, have you ever tried getting out of one? I have and they're a nightmare

 

[verytalldave]

Not much in the world of motoring is really "new" anyway. Its just a revived feature that makes the car a bit different to most competitors models. Thats all.
No different to a DeLorean copying a Gullwing Merc or MR2 popup headlamps copying the Elan.

 

[pammy]

"Suicide door" is the name given to any rear hinged door on a car. Many older cars had them. And they could be opened as you were going along.
Opening a rear hinged door at 60mph is NOT a good idea - hence the term.
And the name has stuck.
We KNOW the door cant be opened until the drivers door is opened - a la RX8. Its just a term.

Thanks for that - it's not a term I have ever heard, and I know you didn't raise this term in this thread - but it seems a totally outdated and unfair term to use in describing this or any other modern car where there is no increased risk to that already accepted. It suggests a car is a greater death trap than it aready is.

I might not like the particluar car in question, but for terms like that to be applied when clearly inappropriate seems just wrong to me.

Found this on Wikepediea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_door

 

[verytalldave]

Pammy, you are clearly of tender years...........much more than I anyway.

Its a common term in motoring, and was used a great deal right up until the demise of the rear hinged door in the late 1950's.
Its not meant to indicate the likelihood of someone actually committing suicide , its merely an accepted term used to describe this type of door. Nobody takes any offence by its use, and I bet the term might even be found somewhere in BMW literature.

 

[Martin]

BMW call it the Club Door which is only on the one side (UK drivers side) which seems to bother some people even though you can exit without the Club Door by tilting forward the seat as in any other 2 door car. Here is an extract from the press launch on this feature from Mini2.com :-

"Reaction at the launch event from the assembled British Media, and early question and answer sessions between MINIs development and management teams rather predictably focused around the ‘UK wrong sided’ and one sided Club Door. To their credit, the MINI team batted away these questions with great aptitude, the main arguments FOR the single Club Door were that it was something different, something extra. For right hand drive, it was argued, the driver is in complete control of access to the rear of the vehicle as he has to get out, open the front door, to let people out. Apparently some of the German media had complained it was on the wrong side, as drivers would have to walk around the vehicle to let their kids out. According to a MINI representative, two ’suicide doors’ was never really on the cards. They did experiment with and consider a more traditional four door MINI, but when that was ruled out for various reasons, the Club Door idea took to the fore."
Design details

 

[Dieselman]

I still don't like the idea of rear doors that can't be opened unless the front ones are.
What about in a crash senario where the front doors are jammed shut, the rears cannot be opened either.

It is industry good practice that standard rear doors can be opened even if the front ones are jammed, this is why rear dorrs have a swaged overlapping leading edge, to ensure the front door over-rides, and connot under-ride the rear door if the front one is moved backwards.

 

[Apial]

LOL, well its never been a problem geerting out of the rear seats of my CE when the back doors are permanently jammed!

 

[Thmsshaun]

Only thing I would say is that if its a clubman the surely they should redesign the front as that just looks the same as a normal Cooper S.

 

[Dieselman]

LOL, well its never been a problem geerting out of the rear seats of my CE when the back doors are permanently jammed!

Have you tried it after a crash where the front ones are jammed.?