Only 17 months for this!! :(

[bpsorrel]

Bus driver was wrong, but am sure the cyclist did swerve to the right so appeared to have been antagonising the bus driver.

Does not make his actions right though.
As dad used to say two wrongs dont make a right!

On the subject of magistrates and law etc.
I read the court cases in the local paper ( Doncaster Free Press) and the other week the biggest fine/penalty amongst the beatings, muggings, attacks, robberies, theft etc was......................

A man fishing without a license!!

Exactly my point earlier. I might find sitting as a magistrate somewhat frustrating..

 

[artyman]

Inadequate sentencing is no deterent, frequently you read about having numerous previous convictions. Third conviction should mean a LOoooong time inside to press home the message that crime does not pay. Fourth time you stay forever, why do we tolerate behaviour that is a blight on decent society, the message to the criminal fraternity is that they need to change their ways if they want to stay free and able to go to the pub of an evening.

 

[mobeyone]

Exactly my point earlier. I might find sitting as a magistrate somewhat frustrating..

But also rewarding

 

[bpsorrel]

I hope so!

Should be 26 days a year of fascinating (and rewarding) giving back to society...

 

[st4]

Inadequate sentencing is no deterent, frequently you read about having numerous previous convictions. Third conviction should mean a LOoooong time inside to press home the message that crime does not pay. Fourth time you stay forever, why do we tolerate behaviour that is a blight on decent society, the message to the criminal fraternity is that they need to change their ways if they want to stay free and able to go to the pub of an evening.

In prison they get free Sky TV and it's a hard mans paradise...quite often prison may be better for scum than the real world

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Why are 'cyclists' classed as some sort of ethnic minority group? That need to be protected from the big, bad motorist?

I used to cycle to work in my younger days and the ignorance of people driving cars was simply astounding, I was always on my guard and because it was very early in the morning I tended to use the pavements.


With regards the OP, the 'cyclist' has quite obviously veered into the path of the bus, trying to antagonise the bus driver and 'in a moment of madness' the driver has flicked him out of the way.

I feel sorry for the bus driver; 5 seconds of madness have now put him inside for some time.

If you get yourself out on your bicycle, be prepared to watch out at all times and expect (at times) to be clipped by a numpty in a metal box and don't start blathering on about how 'cyclists' should have more protection (whatever that means). If you are that precious about life, don't cycle in built-up areas!!!

 

[mobeyone]

In prison they get free Sky TV and it's a hard mans paradise...quite often prison may be better for scum than the real world

It's probably (subconsciously) why they do and keep on doing it. They know early on what path they will take and once in the system, it's very difficult to come out if it.

There's a well known repeat offender where I live, has a "following" and will at some point end up behind bars only to be released again later. Clearly the process does not work for some.

 

[markjay]

..Third conviction should mean a LOoooong time inside....

This is why the US have so many 'lifers' in their prison system.

I don't disagree that lenient sentencing isn't working, but neither does harsh one...

Which is one reason why I would not extradite Gary McKinnon to a country that imposes 150(!) years for non-violent fraud...

 

[Dryce]

I don't disagree that lenient sentencing isn't working, but neither does harsh one...

I suspect the harsh system does work. It's just that it's (a) harsh and (b) loads of people say it doesn't work.

In Scotland we had a statement by our justice wombat Macaskill:

"We've got a 35-year low in recorded crime - there is something going wrong when we see so many people ending up in prison, and that's a problem we have to fix"

Uhhhhh. Helloooooooo.

Crime rate '35 year low'. And 'So many people in prison'.

​

Obvious connection staring him in the face that the justic wombat Macaskill isn't willing to see?

 

[finisterre]

Dryce you forget that ministers have a budget and --

• record number in prison = expensive
• crime = expensive
• hip operation = expensive
• social work intervention = expensive
• winter coal allowance = expensive

-putting people in prison works but cheaper alternatives would be good, compartmentalising ministerial budgets is a mistake.

 

[Dryce]

Dryce you forget that ministers have a budget and --

• record number in prison = expensive

There is definitely an expedient political issue on that point.

But there's also another fundamental underlying issue. There are a large number of dogmatic voices that say "prison doesn't work" and in particular dig up stats on repeat offending to justify their point. So prisons and sentencing system get judged by the inability to correct criminals as opposed to deterrence and management.

Whereas a rather more pragmatic and less emotional view would be that if repeat offending is the norm then lock up people for longer with each repeat offence. That will reduce the rate repeat offending.

 

[fredT]

Im Surprised people want LONGER sentence!

I mean what do you think he should get?

He clearly didn't mean to kill him, if he had the cyclist would be dead. He wanted to scare him, but misjugded it.
This of course doesnt make his actions right, but MUST be taken in to account when sentencing him.

From my point of view (as the guy paying for putting the bus driver in prison) i think it WAY to long. He should be sentenced to a fine plus (and i think this should be in any court case) to pay for ALL costs, judges, witnesses hire of court rooms etc

And then MAYBE a short spell behind bars. What's done is done and no amount of time is gonna change that. The longer the worse his chances of getting a job when getting out, and therefor more costs to you and me.

I think i month behind bars (or even a week) would be sufficient to any of us normal lawabiding citizens to NEVER do something that stupid again.

You have to judge this guy completely different to the scum who go in a out of jail because of things they do intentionally.

I am assuming this was a isolated incident, and the guy has no prior convictions.

 

[KillerHERTZ]

Im Surprised people want LONGER sentence!

I mean what do you think he should get?

He clearly didn't mean to kill him, if he had the cyclist would be dead. He wanted to scare him, but misjugded it.
This of course doesnt make his actions right, but MUST be taken in to account when sentencing him.

From my point of view (as the guy paying for putting the bus driver in prison) i think it WAY to long. He should be sentenced to a fine plus (and i think this should be in any court case) to pay for ALL costs, judges, witnesses hire of court rooms etc

And then MAYBE a short spell behind bars. What's done is done and no amount of time is gonna change that. The longer the worse his chances of getting a job when getting out, and therefor more costs to you and me.

I think i month behind bars (or even a week) would be sufficient to any of us normal lawabiding citizens to NEVER do something that stupid again.

You have to judge this guy completely different to the scum who go in a out of jail because of things they do intentionally.

I am assuming this was a isolated incident, and the guy has no prior convictions.

So you think that swerving into another lane, then speeding up and using a bus as a battering ram agaist a person who is completely exposed is only worth a week or a month at most? he could have killed the guy easliy

Im sure glad you not a judge.

 

[fredT]

So you think that swerving into another lane, then speeding up and using a bus as a battering ram agaist a person who is completely exposed is only worth a week or a month at most? he could have killed the guy easliy

Im sure glad you not a judge.

Yeah what but do you want out of the sentence? Revenge?

No for me the punishment has to be enough to deter him from doing it again, there is to much wasted time and energy in our society as it is.

Quantify WHY a longer sentence is needed, and also HOW this is better to society, the victim and the bus driver?

 

[finisterre]

I can see fredT's argument.

If he is not likely to re-offend then what is the point in punitive sentencing? Intention has to count towards the penalties.

The video is very alarming. But there are probably millions of other unrecorded events that get a lesser penalty because we have to imagine rather than can see them moment by moment.

Ooooh, fred is making me rethink my initial emotional response.

 

[KillerHERTZ]

Yeah what but do you want out of the sentence? Revenge?

No for me the punishment has to be enough to deter him from doing it again, there is to much wasted time and energy in our society as it is.

Quantify WHY a longer sentence is needed, and also HOW this is better to society, the victim and the bus driver?

Punishment, he was driving public transport, he wasn’t a lone driver in his own car. I cant make out from the video if anyone was on the bus with him but someone who is providing a public service is using a 5 tonne bus, with actions like that could have easily resulted in the death of that cyclist. by your logic a week in prison would be punishment enough.

The reason our country is in such a lawless mess is that there are no consequences anymore. all this lambie-pambie “we should just re-educate people” rather than dish out punishment. It doesn’t work. still, when you do get to prison you have your own TV, Playstation and mobile...

I wonder if you would be feeling the same if it was your wife/girlfriend, child whoever?

 

[Deleted member 37751]

The reason our country is in such a lawless mess is that there are no consequences anymore. all this lambie-pambie “we should just re-educate people” rather than dish out punishment. It doesn’t work. still, when you do get to prison you have your own TV, Playstation and mobile...

The same can be applied to the cyclist, if I poked a crocodile and got bit, it'd be my fault.

This 'cyclist' has wound the bus driver up and paid for the consequence. What if that 'cyclist' had made the bus veer into an innocent bystander?

In my book, they're as bad as each other.

 

[KillerHERTZ]

The same can be applied to the cyclist, if I poked a crocodile and got bit, it'd be my fault.

This 'cyclist' has wound the bus driver up and paid for the consequence. What if that 'cyclist' had made the bus veer into an innocent bystander?

In my book, they're as bad as each other.

How is the cyclist as bad as the bus driver? maybe im watching a different clip than you have.

Yes I agree if the cyclist had caused an accident then of course he should have been punished. He didnt however did he?

The bus driver could have also hit a car/motorbike/another cyclist when he swirved into the other lane. There is no way on earth he checked his mirrors before using the bus as a battering ram.

 

[fredT]

The reason our country is in such a lawless mess is that there are no consequences anymore. all this lambie-pambie “we should just re-educate people” rather than dish out punishment. It doesn’t work. still, when you do get to prison you have your own TV, Playstation and mobile...

I wonder if you would be feeling the same if it was your wife/girlfriend, child whoever?

Yeah but you have to differntiate! This guy, as far as i can make out, is just like you and me. But he did something stupid.
I can tell you for sure, that if it was me being put in jail, for sure i would be VERY careful not to end up there again. Playstation or no playstation.

That argument (playstation) dont apply in this case, but i agree for carrer criminals etc it should be alot tougher in there.

Of course people react differently when it affects them directly, ie girlfriend etc like you say. But thats when emotions comes in to work, and not logic.
Hence sentencing is not done by family but by independent people.

What really gets me is when killers etc gets short sentencing, or that peadofiles get let out at all..

 

[Scott_F]

There is definitely an expedient political issue on that point.

But there's also another fundamental underlying issue. There are a large number of dogmatic voices that say "prison doesn't work" and in particular dig up stats on repeat offending to justify their point. So prisons and sentencing system get judged by the inability to correct criminals as opposed to deterrence and management.

Whereas a rather more pragmatic and less emotional view would be that if repeat offending is the norm then lock up people for longer with each repeat offence. That will reduce the rate repeat offending.

Clearly prison doesn't work - but nor do the other sentencing options that are available to judges. Figures for re-offending rates confirm this (and fail to include the many who re-offend but who don't get caught).

However, with prisons full to bursting, offenders released after serving only a quarter of their sentence and violent offenders serving large parts of their time in open conditions there is no prospect of locking people up for longer.