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PCP VERSUS HP. A view

I think I have worded my post badly, if you buy a new car you pay VAT, so if its lost 40% of its value over x years, almost half that is the tax. Not so bad really.

But its irrelevant to this thread, VAT is payable on both PCP on HP.
 
These %age figures obviously vary between cars that are more desirable and less desirable. (ie MB compared to Kia)
But on what original figure are they based?
I paid £21k for my car, list was around £28k at the time.
Now, three & a half years later what is my car worth 65% of what I paid or 65% of the list price?
Go to the Vauxhall website and you can get a Glass's Guide figure for your car, make and model, year and mileage. Or go to Glass's website and for very little they give you a full valuation.

As a general rule, Mercedes cars with popular engine sizes have a residual at 3 years old of around 50% of list price for the model (ignoring extras). Some extras add value usually only half what they cost. Auto adds the full cost.

Fords, Vauxhall, Renault and most popular makes have a residual after 3 years of only 30% of the new list price.

What Car has tables showing residuals for all the main makes.
 
Over the very long term, house prices have risen about 2% faster than prices. So have earnings. They tend to move roughly in line. So if the real interest rate is 2% or more, investing in houses does not pay. I'm sure Scumbag won't like that fact but it happens to be true.


How longer a term are we talking here?

The only problem when buying a house is if you buy it when just before the market is not in a good state, like present, and you need to sell for whatever reason. You may end finding it won't sell for what you paid. However, selling is not the only option you have at that time, but people insist on selling and therefore we end up with the negative equity.

You could let you house, and move into rent, while the market improves which will negate the market fluctuations.

However, 2% increases? whenever over any long term have house prices on average, or otherwise only increased at 2%


And even if it was 2%, which clearly it isn't, 2 % of £200k is a damn site more than 2% on the £10k deposit you would need for a 95% mortgage on it.

As the only difference to your payments are fluctuating interest rates, which means over a long term, if they average out at 7%, have not gone up over the entire term, lets say 25 years, did you wage stay the same over that 25years? has your house only increased 2% over that 25 years too?

And after 25 years, would you be in negative equity, after having paid 3 times what you borrowed?

By my meagre studying, you would pay back around £330000 and your house would be worth £550000. and you would have paid off your mortage. and your salary would be at todays rate, not 25 years ago when you first bought your house, and your mortgage. so for the last 10 years you would have been a lot better off. and you may indeed even have paid it off before then.

If buying house is so bad....why do investers buy houses?

Hello planet earth, I am coming back.
 
I'm afraid you have this wrong Scumbag. If you re-read what I said you will see that I said that in the long term house prices rise NOT at 2% per annum but at 2% per annum faster than prices.

The long term growth rate of our economy is about 2%. So real living standards rise by about2% per annum. So real incomes (after allowing for inflation) also rise by about 2% per annum.

Then, since Building Societies lend a multiple of people's earnings, the amount we can pay rises in line with earnings. So house prices rise by 2% per annum more than prices in the long term -as do earnings.

Investors buy housing because in the long term 2% real is a good hedge against inflation. The FTSE was nearly 7,000 in 1999 and today is only around 5,500. It would need to be over 9,000 just to have kept pace with inflation. So houses have done well.

The long term relationship between earnings and house prices has held for most of the last century. It only started to go haywire when Brown took housing out of the inflation index that the B of E were told to control. So house prices were allowed to rip and Nero played the violin while Rome burned. House prices lookm likely to now collapse back to give us a more sensible relationship between earnings and house prices.
 
Hmmm.

perhaps some facts need airing.


Friday 9th March 2007

Property price increases have been the greatest for terraced houses as compared to all other types of property in the UK over the past decade, according to a new report by Halifax estate agents.

The price of an average terraced house has risen by 239 per cent from £54,945 in 1996 to £186,316 last year. The average increase for all types of property was 205 per cent overall.

Terraced houses still have the lowest average price of all property types, but the gap between prices has narrowed in the decade because of their comparatively higher inflation.

In 1996 the average terraced property in the UK was worth only 77 per cent of the value of the property average, but by 2006 the disparity had tapered with an increase to 85 per cent.

Tim Crawford, group economist for Halifax, said: "Terraced properties have seen the largest average house price increases in both the last five and ten years. Although the average price of a terraced house is still below the UK all property average, the gap has narrowed."

He added: "Despite the strong growth in the price of terraced properties, detached houses still have the highest average price of all property types. The average price of a detached property in the UK is now £326,396, compared to £110,240 at the end of 1996."


Now taking this very house into consideration.....
scumbag1-1.jpg

Cost 2001 £69950. mortgage £64000. Repayments £457.65p permonth. £5491.80 a year, total to date £38,442,60p.

Payments plus amount borrowed £102442.60p. House valued for sale January 2007 = £225000. House currently rented out, Income to me at present £498.30p a month.


So what is your definition of long term?
 
So what is your definition of long term?
Certainly a lot longer than just from 1996.
Since the second World War, the price of the average house has been remarkably stable at aroung 3.5 times average earnings -rarely going below 3.2 times average earnings and rarely going above 3.8 times.

Until the period with no parallel in recent history -1998 to 2007 when house prices trebled in many areas and reached 7/8 times average earnings. The boom was made possible by the B of E and the govt allowing vast amounts of printed money to drive up house prices with little restraint. The govt did not require the Bank to control inflation in house prices but only to control inflation in non house prices. A sure recipe for an uncontrolled boom leading to a large bust.
 
The boom was made possible by the B of E and the govt allowing vast amounts of printed money to drive up house prices with little restraint. The govt did not require the Bank to control inflation in house prices but only to control inflation in non house prices. A sure recipe for an uncontrolled boom leading to a large bust.

Some new factors also in play.

In addition to indigeneous buyers the UK is pretty liberal with mortgages and property rights for non-citizens. So that added an extra % or two or three to the market. Fact that UK market is doing its upward thing makes it quite attractive to buy into.

I have several friends with PR who own multiple properties in this country. I would have no right to buy so easily in theirs.
 
I intend to
bow out of this thread, but only after offering these points of view.


a, 1 minute on google brings up some interesting facts about house prices in the uk over any lenght of time anyone cares to mention, but this website has the best title

and b, a question based on the following quote.

Are you getting rid of the car thats 1 yr old? or the one thats 10months old for this new car you are buying?



Trouble nowadays is that depreciation on the first year or two of cars is so ridiculous that all methods of buying cost plenty if you buy new.
 
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The bushes need trimming

A 61m fence replaced them a few years ago, and the drive has since been block paved.

I think I have a picture of that, with a suitable car for this thread on it.


CAR1.jpg

car12.jpg
 
Are you getting rid of the car thats 1 yr old? or the one thats 10months old for this new car you are buying?
I am buying secondhand rather than new as there are no good deals on the E class estates like there were on the A's. (great deals on the saloons though but not what we want)
Details here:-

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=57638
I am part exchanging both A's. Although I doubt you will believe this, it has cost me less having done PCP's than if I had bought for cash, because the deal offered at the time on the PCP's was so good. That has surprised me as I have always thought that PCP's were really only any good if you stayed the course as we intended to do. But as I said elsewhere 'Life is what happens while you were planning to do something else'.

Of course it has been expensive taking a hit on two A's but two things cheer me up a bit about that fact. First, had I kept the S class, it has dropped more than I've lost on the A's. Secondly, the E estate I hope to be buying has dropped a large bundle too.
 
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a, 1 minute on google brings up some interesting facts about house prices in the uk over any lenght of time anyone cares to mention, but this website has the best title

.
I hope you noticed that they are saying pretty much what I have been saying here: that only recently have house prices grown at extraordinary rates and most people now suffer from 'recent events syndrome'.
 
Go to the Vauxhall website and you can get a Glass's Guide figure for your car, make and model, year and mileage. Or go to Glass's website and for very little they give you a full valuation.

As a general rule, Mercedes cars with popular engine sizes have a residual at 3 years old of around 50% of list price for the model (ignoring extras). Some extras add value usually only half what they cost. Auto adds the full cost.

Fords, Vauxhall, Renault and most popular makes have a residual after 3 years of only 30% of the new list price.

What Car has tables showing residuals for all the main makes.

Can you really say this is the case lately.I do not believe our cars are holding there value.I replied to a post earlier on car valuations and my E class (OK with 65K ) is worth about 35%.
 
Certainly a lot longer than just from 1996.
Since the second World War, the price of the average house has been remarkably stable at aroung 3.5 times average earnings -rarely going below 3.2 times average earnings and rarely going above 3.8 times.

Until the period with no parallel in recent history -1998 to 2007 when house prices trebled in many areas and reached 7/8 times average earnings. The boom was made possible by the B of E and the govt allowing vast amounts of printed money to drive up house prices with little restraint. The govt did not require the Bank to control inflation in house prices but only to control inflation in non house prices. A sure recipe for an uncontrolled boom leading to a large bust.

and, (Taken from that very site)

2) Nationwide BS House Price Index, 1952-2007
1971 - 1978 %change 204

Unparralled!
 
Can you really say this is the case lately.I do not believe our cars are holding there value.I replied to a post earlier on car valuations and my E class (OK with 65K ) is worth about 35%.
No. I don't think it fits the very recent picture. The figures I gave are what has been normal until the recent falling in of the roof!
I think lately there has been a significant further drop in prices as the recession bites, and fuel prices, and the forthcoming increases in VED. Some reports say secondhand prices have recently dropped 25%. I think 4x4's and large petrols have been hit hard with some saying dealers won't touch the worst gas guzzlers at any price.

Incredible to think that just a year ago I sold my Dec 05 S class 320cdi for £31,500. Now Glass's says it has a part ex value of £15,700!

The E estates I am looking at have list prices close to £40k or even a tad above and 6 months old the dealers are offering them at £26-£29k. (OK some are asking more but most are in the range I've given. And those are asking prices. Crazy, crazy world. Buy secondhand and keep a long time seems to be the message from the market.
 
. Although I doubt you will believe this, it has cost me less having done PCP's than if I had bought for cash, because the deal offered at the time on the PCP's was so good.

You are right. I don't believe you. It seems that you have managed to get a deal for on a car that you are suggesting would not be available to any buyer, but only those taking out a pcp finance deal.

Illegal if true.

Or are you suggesting they have given you some money from somewhere?

Clearly the only way to prove that is to put up all your purchasing figures to substantiate that claim!
 
and, (Taken from that very site)

2) Nationwide BS House Price Index, 1952-2007
1971 - 1978 %change 204

Unparralled!
Oh dear Scumbag. Figures just aren't your bag. You must read them more carefully. 1971 to 1978 was the period of the greatest inflation Britain has seen in the whole of the twentieth century. Yes house prices rose by 20% or more in some years. But so did prices. In fact prices rose by nearly 27% at the peak IIRC. But earnings rose too and at about the same speed as prices. So house prices stayed roughly at 3-4 times average earnings.

BUT from 1998 to 2008 house prices rose in an unparalled way. They rose much faster than other prices, and much much faster than earnings. We went from 3.5 times earnings for the average house to more than double that ratio. Yes, trust me, it was unparalled. All fuelled by printed money and crazy policies by the govt and the banks.

And that is why Lehman Bros went down today. Northern Rock and so on are all symptoms of the same unparalled happenings.
 
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You are right. I don't believe you. It seems that you have managed to get a deal for on a car that you are suggesting would not be available to any buyer, but only those taking out a pcp finance deal.

Illegal if true.

Or are you suggesting they have given you some money from somewhere?

Clearly the only way to prove that is to put up all your purchasing figures to substantiate that claim!
Well stay in ignorance if you prefer to. If not go the MB website and you will see deals offered on PCP's for E class saloons which are not available to those buying in other ways.

The so called 'dealer contribution' comes from MB and not from the dealer and is only given to the dealer on PCP deals.

I looked at trying to get a PCP on an E class estate (the deals are only on saloons) and could not get less than an APR of about 14%. On a saloon PCP deal the rate is under 5%.
 
Well stay in ignorance if you prefer to. If not go the MB website and you will see deals offered on PCP's for E class saloons which are not available to those buying in other ways.


Wrong. You can only be offered a discount that is available to everyone irrespective of how you finance the car.

Its not ignorance, its the law. They are just not advertising the fact that anyone can have the same discount for some reason.....I wonder what that could be:rolleyes:

Or are you really saying they will only allow you a discount if you take out a PCP?

delusion again
 

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