Petrol or Diesel? Your opinion matters.

[jarobinson25]

My 2002 pre-facelift C180K saloon gets about 35-40mpg on a daily run (65 miles, mostly motorway) depending on how much I put my foot down. I was originally looking for diesel but with the mileage I do (12-15k/yr) & the price difference between mine & a diesel (if I remember rightly about £2-3k for a similar 4yr old with 40k miles on the clock) it wasn't worth it.

 

[blassberg]

Definitely diesel - 44-52 mpg - 2300rpm @ 75mph! Quiet, unstressful and very very relaxing!

Definitely Diesel for me unless it was 5 litres plus of petrol.

2450 rpm gets me 100mph(!).

I average just over 30mpg though.... so good job it is diesel.....

 

[jeremytaylor]

We have both petrol and diesel in our stable and it is horses for courses.

If you prefer the course that is effortless performance from a deep well of torque, at low revs and with unbeatable economy, then you want the diesel course.

If you like to rev your engine and revel in the nuances of the upper rev range of an engine, do a low mileage and own an oil well, then you want the petrol course.

Personally I would chose the diesel course.

But look at the prices, because second-hand diesels hold their prices so much better than petrols, that you might consider the lower price of a petrol outweighs the advantages of a diesel.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

We have both petrol and diesel in our stable and it is horses for courses.

If you prefer the course that is effortless performance from a deep well of torque, at low revs and with unbeatable economy, then you want the diesel course.

If you like to rev your engine and revel in the nuances of the upper rev range of an engine, do a low mileage and own an oil well, then you want the petrol course.

Personally I would chose the diesel course.

But look at the prices, because second-hand diesels hold their prices so much better than petrols, that you might consider the lower price of a petrol outweighs the advantages of a diesel.

Well said.

 

[jonm]

Hi,

Interesting faced the exact same dilema myself...have to say that when I was looking for my current one (2 years ago) I was out for a 220CDI, nothing else would do. However, after 6 months of looking I couldn't find one for the sort of money I wanted to pay. In the end I went for a 200K, I have to say that initially I found the lower low end torque dissappointing (i.e test drive loads of 220 diesels but buy a 200K petrol). Now, I am now looking at replacing it and am no longer even looking at the diesel, the 200K is fine and I love the way it just keeps pulling through the revs (gets at bit harsh at the high end though) . O/K, its not a V8 but the traction control gets plenty of use, the economy isnt the same but in my experience the purchase price difference (selling, not sticker ) is much wider, I paid some £3.5 K less for my 200K petrol than I could get the same 220 diesel for (admitedly without leather, but everything else the same..). To be honest though I was looking and haggling very hard and all the prices were far lower than the average sticker price..I walked away more times that I can count.

A couple of questions arise..why don't so many of the petrols have leather and is there any noticable difference between the 180 and 200 K's ....but thats another thread.

Jon

 

[fuzzer]

after a diesel , a petrol engine of the same size just seems slow.

slimey hands? use gloves. In fact , if you actually look at some of the people using the pumps , id use gloves for petrol too actually..

The extra cost in buying the diesel will be made up a little in the desirability used when you come to sell it on.

to be honest , you would have to go up to a 320 petrol to do any better than a 220cdi or 270 cdi in drivability terms. V6 240 is a blacksheep and you will see these going cheap as no one really wants them. No where near as quick as the 320 petrol and uses as much juice.

Its a no brainer to look for a nice and tidy 220 cdi or 270 cdi.

 

[big x]

With any cost calculation don't forget to factor in the lost interest on the extra capital tied up in the diesel over the cheaper petrol car.
A big advantage of diesel estates on the used market is demand always exceeds supply.You can sell on easily.
A disadvantage of modern diesels is you can get landed with a big bill on certain cars. BMW 320d turbos can fail at any mileage. VW tdi pumps and turbos fail while the much cheaper bog standard VW 1.8 petrols don't.

adam

 

[SL300-24]

I would go for diesel for every day use. My E320 CDI is both faster and a lot more economical than my E320 cabrio. The diesels torque when overtaking is awesome!
Even though I only do 8k miles per year I still bought the 211 diesel for the performance ........and also when you put £60 or £70 in the tank it runs for ages unlike the petrol!

 

[Robbo]

o be honest , you would have to go up to a 320 petrol to do any better than a 220cdi or 270 cdi in drivability terms. V6 240 is a blacksheep and you will see these going cheap as no one really wants them. No where near as quick as the 320 petrol and uses as much juice.

Its a no brainer to look for a nice and tidy 220 cdi or 270 cdi.

I'd agree with that. Go for either the diesels or the 320 petrol. The 320 petrol goes very well, is very smooth and has a wonderful sound. But be prepared for poor economy.

 

[Dieselman]

With any cost calculation don't forget to factor in the lost interest on the extra capital tied up in the diesel over the cheaper petrol car.

Lets say 1.5k extra. interest at 3% after tax so 1500 x 3% = £45 per annum.
That's half a tank of fuel. The diesel will save you that in the first two weeks and then every fortnight thereafter, about £1000 p.a.

VW tdi pumps and turbos fail while the much cheaper bog standard VW 1.8 petrols don't.

Really.
I don't know anyone who has suffered a TDi pump failure but I do know someone who has had four oil pump failures on his (now gone) Audi 1.8T cabriolet. Apparently a common-ish failure.

 

[big x]

Lets say 1.5k extra. interest at 3% after tax so 1500 x 3% = £45 per annum.
That's half a tank of fuel. The diesel will save you that in the first two weeks and then every fortnight thereafter, about £1000 p.a.

Lets be realistic. £3k extra on a used car @ 5% = £150 pa.
10,000 miles petrol @ £4 gallon 30 MPG = £1333 pa
10,000 miles diesel @ £ 4.20 gallon 43 MPG =£ 976 pa
total saving running diesel £207 pa.

Some diesels need servicing more often so the costs may in fact be the same for the motorist who doesn't do high mileage.

BTW do you have access to the Fleet News FN 50 2006 reliability survey.I can't get it anymore but that should be a good guide to reliability.
I notice the Parkers website have combined this with the JD power customer satisfaction survey and What Car results to produce a top 20.See if you can spot a Mercedes or VW http://parkers.co.uk/advice/guides/?article=155

Re-pumps I may be confusing Tdi with Hdi found in peugeots.There was a recent article in Car Mechanics magazine about failures.

adam

 

[Dieselman]

Lets be realistic. £3k extra on a used car @ 5% = £150 pa.
10,000 miles petrol @ £4 gallon 30 MPG = £1333 pa
10,000 miles diesel @ £ 4.20 gallon 43 MPG =£ 976 pa
total saving running diesel £207 pa.

Some diesels need servicing more often so the costs may in fact be the same for the motorist who doesn't do high mileage.

BTW do you have access to the Fleet News FN 50 2006 reliability survey.I can't get it anymore but that should be a good guide to reliability.
I notice the Parkers website have combined this with the JD power customer satisfaction survey and What Car results to produce a top 20.See if you can spot a Mercedes or VW http://parkers.co.uk/advice/guides/?article=155

Re-pumps I may be confusing Tdi with Hdi found in peugeots.There was a recent article in Car Mechanics magazine about failures.

adam

£3k was for two different specce cars, one with leather one without. The real difference is more like £1.5k, which of course stays with the car anyway so isn't lost money.

Also 43 mpg is pretty low for a c220 cdi.

Irrespective of the cost the diesel is a nicer drive and will be easier to sell.

You are right about the fuel pumps, it's the rubbish electric lift pump in the tank that goes. Still it's cheap, unlike an Audi petrol engine.

 

[petef]

Diesel

 

[Dryce]

£3k was for two different specce cars, one with leather one without. The real difference is more like £1.5k, which of course stays with the car anyway so isn't lost money.

One reason I went for a petrol E was that the difference between my E240
and a similar age/mileage spec'd E220 was over £3k. The E220 is even more
of a slug than the E240.

If I was buying new I would go for diesel as the initial depreciation hit should be less. Buying S/H the depreciation works against you on year and two year old models on the initial pricing and unless you run a very high mileage you won't really get it back.

Most people I know (friends/family) who buy diesels don't really work out the costs properly. ('It saves me money on long journeys'. Yes it does. But if you only do 6000 miles a year of three holiday trips of 1200 miles and the rest is pottering about within a 3 mile radius of your driveway then you're not thinking it through properly).

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Diesel is the sensible choice, if for no reason other than it sells more quickly and is therefore less painful at resale time.

Go for the biggest engine you can afford - and can find a good example of - whether petrol or diesel, it will be great!!

 

[discodom]

my thoughts

Well i have got a 9 month old brand new C180K Sports Edition Advantgarde - and on long runs (usually down to Maidstone from Oxford) have got just a tad under 42 mpg which I think is pretty good. This weekend upto Shropshire I was averaging 39 mpg - thanks to the stop start of the M42!. Round town its a lot lower - say around 35mpg.

I did consider a diesel when i was looking to buy - but the factor of not doing a huge amount of mileage did count. I think I only do about 8 - 9K a year - so not really worth justifying a Diesel.

My old C Class - pre facelift - was the old 2 litre C180 - and I dont think was as good on the fuel. Speed / Acceleration wise - the new car is definitely faster out of the starting blocks, depending if she is in "drive is like its stolen mode". I do like the whine of the Kompressor when it hits 4000rpm and above easily pleased at the moment I suppose.

I think I may go for something a bigger engine - maybe 2.7 - or maybe a second hand C32 with that nice AMG badge attached. When I bought this one - fuel prices were almost touching £1 a litre which did make me think hard about engine size.

Good luck in your quest.

Happy Christmas and all the best for 2007 to all forum members!

 

[Stratman]

Blimey! Three pages and counting. I feel honoured and humbled.
Purchase price is not an issue, in that I have a budget (£10k) and I will buy the best car I can for that. I appreciate that it will buy a newer petrol car than it will a Diesel, but I aim to end up with the car I want, rather than the 'accountant's spreadsheet's choice'.
Depreciation is also not an issue, as I keep a car until it's worth nothing (or in this case until it loses an argument with roadside railings ). I am also anything but a boy racer, so exploring the upper area of the rev range is not something that causes a commotion in my trousers.
What I do like is to waft around in as near silence as possible with as little effort as possible. The common thread here is that Diesels have good low-down torque so that is a big plus point. I do about 10,000 miles per year, mixed town and motorway, so 600 miles as opposed to 400 miles between fillups does appeal, again purely for the botheration factor.
The Diesel owners here also seem extremely pleased with their choice.
I shall start looking in January and report back.

Happy Christmas to all Forumites and once again thanks for your response. It really is helpful.

 

[BTB 500]

We have 2 petrol and a diesel, I know it's a cliche comment but filling up with diesel is a pain. If you forget to wear the plastic gloves that are (or might be) available your hands always stink of diesel afterwards - I certainly wouldn't want to touch a nice leather steering wheel. Luckily our diesel is an old Audi A4 which is not exactly immaculate inside, so it's not the end of the world.

 

[Dieselman]

Most people I know (friends/family) who buy diesels don't really work out the costs properly. ('It saves me money on long journeys'. Yes it does. But if you only do 6000 miles a year of three holiday trips of 1200 miles and the rest is pottering about within a 3 mile radius of your driveway then you're not thinking it through properly).

A diesel saves the most on short journeys because of the extra torque which is used for accelleration. Add to this that a petrol runs with four times the mixture strength than a diesel when cold and you can soon see that a diesel is much better for short journey work.

 

[Dryce]

A diesel saves the most on short journeys because of the extra torque which is used for accelleration. Add to this that a petrol runs with four times the mixture strength than a diesel when cold and you can soon see that a diesel is much better for short journey work.

Diesels don't work too well from cold. How many drivers actually wait for
for the glow plugs before going? My E starts at 20 to 24 mpg over the
first mile or so and then starts improving. I've never seen it reach 80
to 96 mpg (it hits 35 on gentle long runs) so whatever the mixture
strength might be on a cold start the actual impact on real world
consumption isn't 4x.

Are you really trying to tell me that you get payback over 6K miles in
an average diesel?

If I was willing to pay a bit more for a higher performance E then my
choice would be a diesel 280 or 320 but that's based on flexibility
(outright performance or economy based on how it is used) rather
than unsentimental economics.

However in terms of raw economics I reckon that there a lot of diesels
out and about that are bought based on false assumptions about cost
of ownership.