Poll - Do you use winter tyres?

[Shude]

Is it? Why is that? I use my wife's 4x4 in the bad weather - I think the tyres are all season as they have a lot of cross Sips on them unlike mine.

As long as the tyres are appropriate then it'll be fine.

I was shouting at the TV a couple of years ago when on the news some woman was telling a reporter that the snow was very dangerous in her village and even her 4WD had slid into the middle of a junction. Hello? Your BMW X5 is on rubber bands! The only benefits are that you'll set off more easily thanks to the diff and the high ground clearance means you can skim over the snow drifts.

 

[219]

Apart from an Audi 100 I bought years ago with a set of Vredestein studded mud & snow tyres on it , I have never used them .

All of my Mercs have been fine in snowy conditions , with adaptation of driving style and a reasonable load in the boot ( which I tend to always have anyway ) . My W126 with LSD seems to be pretty good at keeping moving when other cars get stuck .

 

[Satch]

Is it? Why is that? I use my wife's 4x4 in the bad weather - I think the tyres are all season as they have a lot of cross Sips on them unlike mine.



....

If they are siped all seasons tyres then it should be fine within limits. The trouble comes with summer tyres, particularly low profile "high performance" types fitted on drug dealer rims. Next to useless in snow and particularly slush, which BTW short of sheet ice is about the most dangerous type of road condition.

So, Mr or Mrs Numpty often tends to think "Snow! I have a 4x4! No problem! Carry on and show the peasants how clever we are!" Absent tyres that can function properly in the prevailing conditions that is just so wrong.

What the Numpties have is a vehicle with only a marginal advantage in terms of two extra driven wheels giving a bit more forward traction but they have absolutely no advantage whatsoever in terms of braking or steering. And in a high mass, high centre of gravity vehicle.

I promise you that soon after the next snow dump in my area there will be such vehicles in ditches, up trees and buried in other cars. Happens every time.

 

[BTB 500]

I use winter tyres, but no on the merc, on a Vauxhall Corsa. They are on their 5th year, which will be their last, they will be at their practical wear limit by spring.

Irrespective of wear, they'd be due for replacement by then anyway due to age. Check the date of manufacture on the sidewall - they could be 6+ years old already.

 

[crockers]

It's not just the temperature difference but also the fact that we're an island surrounded by salt water helps a lot to keep our roads clear so i hear.

More to do with the Gulf Stream...

 

[BTB 500]

I use them for various reasons (approximate order below)

1. If someone steps out on front of my car, I want to know that I did everything I realistically could to get stopped in time.
2. Same as above if car in front breaks suddenly.

Those are very admirable reasons, however do you apply the same logic for the other 9-10 months of the year? I.e. selecting your tyre brand/model based on wet/dry braking performance (there's a huge variation) rather than noise/life/cost/etc., replacing tyres when down to 3mm (or whatever the recommendation for optimum wet braking is), etc.?

Does anyone have statistics to show that the death/injury rate increases in snowy/icy conditions? My understanding was that the opposite is true - there are far more injuries/deaths in summer (when people typically drive faster).

In which case purely in safety terms we'd be better off promoting better summer tyres ...

 

[tagnut]

Those are very admirable reasons, however do you apply the same logic for the other 9-10 months of the year? I.e. selecting your tyre brand/model based on wet/dry braking performance (there's a huge variation) rather than noise/life/cost/etc., replacing tyres when down to 3mm (or whatever the recommendation for optimum wet braking is), etc.?

Does anyone have statistics to show that the death/injury rate increases in snowy/icy conditions? My understanding was that the opposite is true - there are far more injuries/deaths in summer (when people typically drive faster).

In which case purely in safety terms we'd be better off promoting better summer tyres ...

I'm not sure I follow this logic. Are you suggesting not to bother with winter tyres but just put better summer tyres on?

The point is that any summer tyre isn't as well equipped to deal with wintry conditions as winter tyres are surely.

 

[Shude]

The point is that any summer tyre isn't as well equipped to deal with wintry conditions as winter tyres are surely.

I think the issue here is that newer tyres of any type will be better than worn-out tyres in almost any situation.

 

[BTB 500]

I'm not sure I follow this logic. Are you suggesting not to bother with winter tyres but just put better summer tyres on?

No.

I'm saying that purely from a SAFETY point of view, there may not actually be much justification for winter tyres. People tend to drive slower and less often, with the result that there are (IIRC) significantly less injuries & deaths in winter anyway.

For example, the quoted reduction in braking distance on snow at 20 mph. Yes winter tyres are dramatically better than summer tyres in that respect, but if you do happen to slide into something at 10 mph as a result it's not usually going to be particularly serious. Realistically nobody goes much faster than about 30 mph on snow and ice in the UK on any kind of tyre. Typically you are following people at a walking pace.

My point about summer tyres was just that banning (or heavily discouraging the use of) some of the dodgier brands of 'normal' tyres would actually save far more deaths and injuries (over the rest of the year) than encouraging people to use winter tyres in winter.

I stress that I'm only talking about the safety aspect. If you live in an area where it snows and you must be able to drive regardless of the weather then winter tyres do make sense from the mobility point of view.

I had the winter tyre conversation again last night with my wife (who is used to driving on them in Germany), and she said she didn't want them on her Audi here. If conditions are bad the roads are often made impassable by people who don't have winter tyres anyway, so better to just not drive for a few days if necessary (it's not essential for us to be able to use the car).

 

[wemorgan]

Another aspect about safety is that people have been shown to drive to a perceived level of safety/risk. So if by fitting winter tyres people think they are safer they may then drive faster than normal and thereby increasing their risk.

 

[tagnut]

Ok I see your point that generally people drive at lower speeds in poor conditions so any incidents may well be less severe but what if a child were to run out in front of you and the difference in you being able to stop and hitting that child is the difference that winter tyres provide. Statistics are all very well until you are on the wrong end of them.

Also safety is not the only concern when driving. If winter tyres improve traction and stopping distance then you are less likely to have any kind of accident. I'd rather have the tyres and reduce the risk of a low speed incident which could potentially leave me stranded, put my car off the road for a period whilst being repaired, cost me money in increased insurance premiums, create additional hassle that I don't need etc.

All of the above is balanced by the fact that putting winter tyres on can be a cost neutral exercise over the medium to long term if you invest in a smaller set of wheels for winter and at worst will only cost you fees of changing the tyres over twice a year if not.

All in IMHO of course

 

[Mcnasty]

I do, I originally switched because I spent a lot of time driving in Germany. Pretty much compulsory there

Same here, Winter tyres are common place in Germany.

 

[BTB 500]

Ok I see your point that generally people drive at lower speeds in poor conditions so any incidents may well be less severe but what if a child were to run out in front of you and the difference in you being able to stop and hitting that child is the difference that winter tyres provide.

But you are less likely to have someone run out in front of you in the 3? months you have winter tyres fitted than the remaining 9 months of the year. So do you use only the softest (quickest wearing) brand/model tyres the rest of the year, and replace them at 4mm of tread rather than the legal 1.6? Because in the wet either of those factors can make the difference between hitting a child or not. This shows solely the impact of tread depth on 'normal' tyres:

http://www.kwik-fit.com/assets/jpg/graphics/wet-braking-on-asphalt.jpg

The various tyre group tests give the (sometimes significant) differences between individual tyre brands & models.

Also bear in mind that if you get an unexpectedly mild & dry day in the winter your stopping distance will be longer on winter tyres than normal ones. In that scenario you may be driving a bit faster in the first place, too.

I'm all for safety, but unfortunately it's not simple

 

[splitpin]

Also safety is not the only concern when driving. If winter tyres improve traction and stopping distance then you are less likely to have any kind of accident. I'd rather have the tyres and reduce the risk of a low speed incident which could potentially leave me stranded, put my car off the road for a period whilst being repaired, cost me money in increased insurance premiums, create additional hassle that I don't need etc.

Precisely.
Splitpin

 

[supersport]

last year I had no problems in the snow and ice with the 255/60/17 dunlop sp5000s fitted on my ml, it went up hills in the lakes on packed snow no problem and here at home the car was more sure footed than I was on the packed snow and ice, the dash traction light hardly came on, just ficked on now and then, the dunlops have now worn down to 3-4mm, i have been struggling to get them again in the same size, seem only to be obtainable in 275/55/17, I do not fancy wider tyres in case they sit on top of the snow/mud and/or tramline, so just had 255/65/17 110h General Tire AT2's fitted, these are a serious 50/50 tyre so I would think I will have no problems with traction now, these even have holes to provide for the fitting of studs if required, but if things got that bad i would resort to chains first
will post a photo tomorrow
supersport

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

last year I had no problems in the snow and ice with the 255/60/17 dunlop sp5000s fitted on my ml, it went up hills in the lakes on packed snow no problem and here at home the car was more sure footed than I was on the packed snow and ice, the dash traction light hardly came on, just ficked on now and then, the dunlops have now worn down to 3-4mm, i have been struggling to get them again in the same size, seem only to be obtainable in 275/55/17, I do not fancy wider tyres in case they sit on top of the snow/mud and/or tramline, so just had 255/65/17 110h General Tire AT2's fitted, these are a serious 50/50 tyre so I would think I will have no problems with traction now, these even have holes to provide for the fitting of studs if required, but if things got that bad i would resort to chains first
will post a photo tomorrow
supersport

There's a formula that governs this...

(4x4) + (M+S) = NP (in) Snow

where:

M+S = Mud & Snow tyre; and

NP = No Problem

 

[br0ke]

Those are very admirable reasons, however do you apply the same logic for the other 9-10 months of the year? I.e. selecting your tyre brand/model based on wet/dry braking performance (there's a huge variation) rather than noise/life/cost/etc., replacing tyres when down to 3mm (or whatever the recommendation for optimum wet braking is), etc.?

Although I do see the point you are making, I don't drive around in the winter thinking I'm invincible. Of course there are less serious injuries during the winter when it is darker, colder and wetter (arguably) when EVERYONE takes more care - whether they really want to or not.

Taken to extreme we should all drive around on bald tyres that could give way at any minute without warning, with a spike attached to the centre of the steering wheel. I think there would be a lot less injuries when every time you get behind the wheel you look straight at and can touch your own mortality.

I just put them on for the reasons listed.

 

[Apial]

Do the German motorists grind to a halt when 2cm of snow falls? Do they drive all year round on summer tyres? Do they laugh at Britain when can't cope with a sprinkle of snow?

If you don't know, I'll give you a clue. One of the answers is "Yes."!

 

[Apial]

There's a formula that governs this...

(4x4) + (M+S) = NP (in) Snow

where:

M+S = Mud & Snow tyre; and

NP = No Problem

At my school the formula is simpler:

M+S + (4x2) =NP too.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Do the German motorists grind to a halt when 2cm of snow falls? Do they drive all year round on summer tyres? Do they laugh at Britain when can't cope with a sprinkle of snow?

If you don't know, I'll give you a clue. One of the answers is "Yes."!

Do I care what German motorists think of what we do?
If you don't know, I'll give you a clue. One of the answers is "No"