Pre Wash Debate.... Do you pre wash your Pre wash? What Say You??

[chrisk2010]

No worries

Not sure how much difference a wet panel would make in terms of the effectiveness of your snow foam or other cleaners - the amount of water in terms of percentages would be tiny by comparison to your dilution ratio and the amount of foam applied? I guess going by that theory you could increase the ratio a fraction to account for that. The other way of looking at it is that your snowfoam or other chemicals will get better contact with the ‘bonded’ dirt if you rinse off as much of the easy loose stuff first

In terms of the contaminants having absorbed water - of course, if they absorb water from they’ll also absorb your chemicals that are suspended in the pre wash or foam, by diffusion.

I have used this or a similar method on an older car that had sat on a drive for a long time and i could vouch for the integrity of the seals. I didn't want to hit it with a pressure washer in case the seals weren't doing there job so i rinsed with a garden hose to remove loose debris, applied 10% apc through a pump sprayer to initially help with de-greasing more stubborn areas and agitated with a MF cloth and brush for the crevices then rinsed again. I followed up with a stronger solution of auto foam applied through a lance as i could allow it a longer dwell time than the APC and snow foam through a lance isn't going hit the car as intensely as a pressure washer (i don't have a pump foamer or i would have used that).

Once sufficiently allowed to dwell i went around the car with a few soft (but not new) MF clothes again in a bucket of shampoo and warm water then rinsed gently with the hose and blew out stubborn areas with a compressor.

The thinking behind wasn't necessarily to reduce swirling as the car was getting a machine polish but to go as gently as i could so as not to create any more problems which blasting with a pressure washer may have created by pushing water into where it wasn't wanted.

 

[Will]

I forgot to mention - I find the absolute best time to wash a car is after it’s been raining. Usually cooler and less direct sunlight etc, most of the dried on stuff has had a good chance to soften up/loosen off etc.

I find that on a car with a coating, a good amount of the usual dust/dirt self cleans away in the rain, which is obviously helpful! Obviously when washing, I always rinse off first regardless.

I’ll probably give snowfoam a try sometime, so long as it wasn’t too harsh in terms of chemicals. To me I’d rather a few paintwork swirls than risk etching aluminium trim or faded plastics etc. Not keen on the strong chemicals - TFR/APCs etc (I have looked into BH auto foam and decided it wasn’t for me)

Lee - one thing I can’t remember if I asked you before, but what’s your tips for maintaining the alloy side steps on your white car? My GL isn’t too bad at the moment, but I’ve seen several others (and even a few newish MBs with the same type steps) that have dulled aluminium. Really lets the cars down IMHO.

Hence I am cautious of using aggressive chemicals and/or high pressure on these parts in particular!

As always with detailing though, it’s getting on with it and being happy with your own results that matters - more than one way to skin a cat

 

[LeeJV]

I forgot to mention - I find the absolute best time to wash a car is after it’s been raining. Usually cooler and less direct sunlight etc, most of the dried on stuff has had a good chance to soften up/loosen off etc.

I find that on a car with a coating, a good amount of the usual dust/dirt self cleans away in the rain, which is obviously helpful! Obviously when washing, I always rinse off first regardless.

I’ll probably give snowfoam a try sometime, so long as it wasn’t too harsh in terms of chemicals. To me I’d rather a few paintwork swirls than risk etching aluminium trim or faded plastics etc. Not keen on the strong chemicals - TFR/APCs etc (I have looked into BH auto foam and decided it wasn’t for me)

Lee - one thing I can’t remember if I asked you before, but what’s your tips for maintaining the alloy side steps on your white car? My GL isn’t too bad at the moment, but I’ve seen several others (and even a few newish MBs with the same type steps) that have dulled aluminium. Really lets the cars down IMHO.

Hence I am cautious of using aggressive chemicals and/or high pressure on these parts in particular!

As always with detailing though, it’s getting on with it and being happy with your own results that matters - more than one way to skin a cat

Generally most TFR is highly caustic and can damage and stain alloy, and paint for that matter. So dont touch it. I've been using BH AF for years and it's not stained any chrome or alloy trims on the car in the 3 years I've had it. many people worry about PH levels when using Prewash products, but it's not the PH level that makes its work so much as the surfactant formulation.
I coated them with 3 coats or Wowos cyrstal sealant as its works for plastic aswell.

I don't use APC on them, simply BH AF and Pure shampoo with no gloss enhancers or wax. To finish them off I just spray Koche Chemie PW and rinse off, then allow dry them.

You can also use Carpro Dlux as this will protect alloy and plastic in 1.

 

[Deleted member 126251]

There was a you tube video address this though i have just looked for 10 minutes and can't find it.

They basically took a painted panel polished it, corrected it and inspected it under a microscope then magnetically attached it to a car to drove around in the elements over a period of time until a sufficient amount of grime had built up then conducted the test whether using a prewash (SF in this case) would be beneficial against just pressure washing off the grime.

Of course the snow foamed side came up cleaner as snow foam has more cleaning properties than pressurised water but it got more interesting when they inspected the panel again under the microscope.

The side that didn't have snow foam applied did have slightly more "micro marring" as opposed to the side without but the interesting bit was the direction of some of the marring. The pressure washed side the marring spread out in random directions and though the SF side did have similar marring it was far lessened in this test and more directional assuming this is from being attached the the vehicle and driven.

NOW the disclaimer! Keep in mind this is microscopic marring not very visible to the naked eye, maybe over time 5,10, 15 + plus years the paint would look visible duller totally depending on how the car is looked after and stored i suppose, and although the test results did interpret that directly pressure washing dirt of an untreated painted panel the car would cause more marring than pre-treating the surface prior to washing it won't immediately be visible the the naked eye.

I hope i have explained everything correctly and in a way that makes sense as it was a few years ago now since i have seen the video but it was one of the reasons i started looking into SF when i caught the detailing bug.

To be fair, If I wanted to do damage with a pressure washer, I'm pretty sure I'd manage, in order, to prove a point.

I'm over all the magic potions and lotions and pressure washing is bad for your paintwork malarkey.

It is all designed to sell more product and the manufactures are constantly coming up with the next best thing and waiting for the "experts" to rush out and endorse them and promote "car detailing"......

I've been using run of the mill stuff on my SL for 3 years now and it looks fine. My wife's car is 6 years old (purchased 2nd hand) and gets very little TLC and the paint looks fine when I get motivated to give it a proper clean.

However like vaccinations, there are believers and non-believers.

I was reading about a bloke that makes sure that the screws in all his switch and plug covers are all vertical.........

 

[Deleted member 126251]

Water is a brilliant solvent,

AKA the "universal solvent"

 

[togthecat]

I was reading about a bloke that makes sure that the screws in all his switch and plug covers are all vertical.

You're saying there are people who don't? ?

 

[LeeJV]

You're saying there are people who don't? ?

Kinda like having all my Detailing bottles in order of process, labels and triggers facing the same way.. it's called attention to detail

 

[Spider10]

Kinda like having all my Detailing bottles in order of process, labels and triggers facing the same way.. it's called attention to detail

You seem like the guy to ask ive had mine detailed then ceramic coated with FEYNLAB products what would you suggest i use as general maintenance SF, pre wash etc thanks

 

[LeeJV]

You seem like the guy to ask ive had mine detailed then ceramic coated with FEYNLAB products what would you suggest i use as general maintenance SF, pre wash etc thanks

Hey buddy.
I'm not too familiar with Fenylab Products, but if its ceramic coated then it negates the need for Hi PH chmicals to remove soiling and contamination from the coating as it's less likely to bond. even though they are more resistant to acidic and alkaline you wont need to use them as much.

Most PH Neutral SF will work well with it but you generally need a thicker foam as the thin ones will slide off the panel too fast.
Bh AF will work fine, but you wont need a pir of more than 1-2%.
Aenso make a very good SF that I use, its designed to keep the coating maintained and works extremely well
Only 30ml mixed with 300ml of water via a lance.

DETAIL DRIVEN SF works very well too. Again thick foam that rinses off the panel very well and clings for an age.

LABOCOSMETICA primus SF also works well for coating, twined with Purifica to remove lime scale buildup over winter that binds to the coating.

CITRUS-PRE-WASH apc is also perfect for coating, but you will only need a very light dulition, Detail Driven Citrus-pre-wash at 20/1 will be more than sufficient.

No matter what product you use, always apply to dry paint if possible, even though a gentle rinse will remove most of it, it's still likely to get trapped unless it had foam to carry it away

Shampoo
Any pure shampoo. With no wax or gloss enhancers.
Bh auto wash
Garage therapy One maintenance shampoo
LABOCOSMETICA Sember
AENSO pure
All of the above I have and are fantastic shampoo that can also be used via a cannon or foamer

As for coating toppers, dont use any QD that is wax based as it will mask the ceramic coating and effect its self cleaning ability.

Garage therapy 2 Sigma
Aenso Gleam
Kamikaze overcoat

Or you can also use Gyeon wetcoat
CARPRO hydro 2 , these are fantastic for winter months when the air is damp as you tend to get more moisture in the air that can cause streaking when using g a QD.

Wheels work in the same way as the paint if coated too

There are a truck load of other products but these I have used personally and can vouch for them.

hope that helps buddy

 

[chrisk2010]

It is all designed to sell more product and the manufactures are constantly coming up with the next best thing and waiting for the "experts" to rush out and endorse them and promote "car detailing"......

I don't disagree with you there, there is so much on the market as it has just exploded over the past few years that it's easy to get caught up in the hype of new products like graphene coatings, ceramic waxes, graphene sprays and the list goes on but picking out the products and techniques that are genuine is what we're here for.

Even a lot of highly regarded detailers are against some of the things i have mentioned as they feels consumers are being mislead by buzz words like "ceramic" as they are thinking that getting a true ceramic coating when in reality they aren't.

I like discussions like this because you can cut through the malarky and find products that truly work and make detailing and car cleaning much easier and more cost effective while helping fellow members avoid the pitfalls of marketing.

Honestly Rory i know you are firmly against everything detailing and part of me think you must save a fortune on dishwasher tablets and toothpaste but the things we aren't out to sell snake oil far from it.

Between me and my better half we have 7 children and i'm not in a position to waste money on things that do not do what they say on the tin and there is a box of products that have built up over the years in my shed that i wouldn't recommend to anyone.

Simple detailing is made out to be hard when in reality you can achieve great results that people think are out of there reach with very little outlay, i'm not saying it is for everyone but for those that do appreciate the joy of a one step enhancement and a good coating to preserve there investment whether it be a wax, SiO2 sealant or ceramic.

Lee for example has an amazing car, with enough clear coat for 8 full corrections and rock hard ceramic coating so his thinking and approach will differ vastly to mine when i think about my 14 year old w203 which i treat like lace rice paper as i do not know how much clear coat is left to work with but his advice has saved me from probably trying out a dozen different products and made my life much much easier when it comes to cleaning the car which is where coming together and sharing ideas is great.

Are there any pressure washing techniques or products, attachments that you recommend? I have been looking at ordering an under car pressure washer attachment to use at the prewash stage.

 

[Spider10]

Hey buddy.
I'm not too familiar with Fenylab Products, but if its ceramic coated then it negates the need for Hi PH chmicals to remove soiling and contamination from the coating as it's less likely to bond. even though they are more resistant to acidic and alkaline you wont need to use them as much.

Most PH Neutral SF will work well with it but you generally need a thicker foam as the thin ones will slide off the panel too fast.
Bh AF will work fine, but you wont need a pir of more than 1-2%.
Aenso make a very good SF that I use, its designed to keep the coating maintained and works extremely well
Only 30ml mixed with 300ml of water via a lance.

DETAIL DRIVEN SF works very well too. Again thick foam that rinses off the panel very well and clings for an age.

LABOCOSMETICA primus SF also works well for coating, twined with Purifica to remove lime scale buildup over winter that binds to the coating.

CITRUS-PRE-WASH apc is also perfect for coating, but you will only need a very light dulition, Detail Driven Citrus-pre-wash at 20/1 will be more than sufficient.

No matter what product you use, always apply to dry paint if possible, even though a gentle rinse will remove most of it, it's still likely to get trapped unless it had foam to carry it away

Shampoo
Any pure shampoo. With no wax or gloss enhancers.
Bh auto wash
Garage therapy One maintenance shampoo
LABOCOSMETICA Sember
AENSO pure
All of the above I have and are fantastic shampoo that can also be used via a cannon or foamer

As for coating toppers, dont use any QD that is wax based as it will mask the ceramic coating and effect its self cleaning ability.

Garage therapy 2 Sigma
Aenso Gleam
Kamikaze overcoat

Or you can also use Gyeon wetcoat
CARPRO hydro 2 , these are fantastic for winter months when the air is damp as you tend to get more moisture in the air that can cause streaking when using g a QD.

Wheels work in the same way as the paint if coated too

There are a truck load of other products but these I have used personally and can vouch for them.

hope that helps buddy

Thanks for the advice i will get some tbh it doesn't live outside it lives in an airchamber so doesn't really get mucky but thought I'd ask and you are the guy so thanks

 

[Deleted member 126251]

................

Honestly Rory i know you are firmly against everything detailing and part of me think you must save a fortune on dishwasher tablets and toothpaste but the things we aren't out to sell snake oil far from it.

You're really making an ass of yourself here ..... Because I do not agree with some methods or products does not mean I do not buy products. I have shelves full of the stuff and am constantly giving away half used bottles of product because I get sucked in by the marketing hype, the next best thing and like trying them out.

Here is a picture I've just taken of what is in my garage and there are some older pictures - I also have a water filter, snow foam gun and pressure washer all for a car that spends most of it's time in the garage and does low milage because it is my (expensive) toy.

I'm fortunate that I do not need to count my pennies mate!

Foot in mouth? Let's see what you have!


toy.

 

[millc63]

Hey buddy, thanks for your reply,

I do have ceramic coating on my other car, but on the GLE its just wowos Crystal sealant that was done over 6months ago., generally when cleaning a coated car you wouldn't need the PIR so High, 2% should be more than adequate. Aenso also make a fantastic SF for coated cars that actually maintains the coating by stopping it becoming clogged.
Another great foam that has recently come to market that I have been testing is Detail Driven SF, this is PH Neutral with a high foam, but cleans really well too.

Generally I only use Surfex HD on plastics and rubber, and Citrus-pre-wash for paint and wheels when needed if the SF hasn't worked well enough

Thanks for the advice @LeeJV will need to dilute the ratio a bit more i think! TBF I only use it at that high a rate as it seems to do a fantastic job and during the winter months have only been washing the car once a month but thanks for the tip.

Will have to try the other SF's you mention but as i bought a 5L BH will have to wait until I finish that as my wife is not impressed with the ever growing amount of detailing products in the garage

 

[Spider10]

You're really making an ass of yourself here ..... Because I do not agree with some methods or products does not mean I do not buy products. I have shelves full of the stuff and am constantly giving away half used bottles of product because I get sucked in by the marketing hype, the next best thing and like trying them out.

Here is a picture I've just taken of what is in my garage and there are some older pictures - I also have a water filter, snow foam gun and pressure washer all for a car that spends most of it's time in the garage and does low milage because it is my (expensive) toy.

I'm fortunate that I do not need to count my pennies mate!

Foot in mouth? Let's see what you have!

View attachment 105841View attachment 105833View attachment 105835View attachment 105836
toy.

This is all irelavant why does it have to come down to money your car might be ( expensive) but not everyone is in the same position to me mine is a expensive toy but to you it probably isn't this is what i dont like about forums detailing is detailing doesn't matter on what car

 

[E55BOF]

This is all irelavant why does it have to come down to money your car might be ( expensive) but not everyone is in the same position to me mine is a expensive toy but to you it probably isn't this is what i dont like about forums detailing is detailing doesn't matter on what car

That reads as though what you don't like about forums is people expressing contrary opinions. Could you tell us what you really mean?

I'm with Rory. In fact, I have enough trouble with the concept of a car and 'wash', so pre-wash...

 

[Spider10]

That reads as though what you don't like about forums is people expressing contrary opinions. Could you tell us what you really mean?

I'm with Rory. In fact, I have enough trouble with the concept of a car and 'wash', so pre-wash...

There was no need to put (expensive) toy to some people that says look at me a car is a car the day's of t-cuttig your pink car back to red have gone forum's are for information shared and difference of opinions will always be a part of that but the type of car is irrelevant (or bank balance)

 

[chic0821]

Chrisk2010, "Are there any pressure washing techniques or products, attachments that you recommend? I have been looking at ordering an under car pressure washer attachment to use at the prewash stage."

Saw an article on this, If you have a Karcher patio cleaner, turn or upside down the put it under the car. Might be easier if you put a couple of castors on it. I had one but it was useless for my block paving so chucked it in the bin before I saw this.

 

[Deleted member 126251]

This is all irelavant why does it have to come down to money your car might be ( expensive) but not everyone is in the same position to me mine is a expensive toy but to you it probably isn't this is what i dont like about forums detailing is detailing doesn't matter on what car

No good going off half cocked matey ;-) . Very relevant.

If you'd properly read the post that I commented on, you'd have noticed that he was being insulting & implying that I'm too mean/cheap to buy & use various products and actually went beyond car care products.

My comment on expensive toys is perfectly relevant as I buy a lot of product to use on a car that I don't drive very often and end up with a lot of surplus product that I give away! Hardly the actions of someone that is mean with money.

 

[Deleted member 126251]

Chrisk2010, "Are there any pressure washing techniques or products, attachments that you recommend? I have been looking at ordering an under car pressure washer attachment to use at the prewash stage."

Saw an article on this, If you have a Karcher patio cleaner, turn or upside down the put it under the car. Might be easier if you put a couple of castors on it. I had one but it was useless for my block paving so chucked it in the bin before I saw this.View attachment 105847

or one of these

Karcher VP180 S Vario Power Jet Nozzle

The Vario Power Jet Short 360° with infinitely variable pressure control and flexibly adjustable 360° joint is ideal for cleaning nearby, hard to reach areas.

www.craigmoreonline.co.uk

 

[LeeJV]

Thanks for the advice i will get some tbh it doesn't live outside it lives in an airchamber so doesn't really get mucky but thought I'd ask and you are the guy so thanks

Well I wouldn't say "I'm the guy " I'm not full time professional buddy, Don't mean to come across like that, so apologies to anyone else aswell if I've come across like a Know it all