Pre Wash Debate.... Do you pre wash your Pre wash? What Say You??

[Spider10]

Well I wouldn't say "I'm the guy " I'm not full time professional buddy, Don't mean to come across like that, so apologies to anyone else aswell if I've come across like a Know it all

You know more than me and your car says it all

 

[chrisk2010]

You're really making an ass of yourself here ..... Because I do not agree with some methods or products does not mean I do not buy products. I have shelves full of the stuff and am constantly giving away half used bottles of product because I get sucked in by the marketing hype, the next best thing and like trying them out.

Here is a picture I've just taken of what is in my garage and there are some older pictures - I also have a water filter, snow foam gun and pressure washer all for a car that spends most of it's time in the garage and does low milage because it is my (expensive) toy.

I'm fortunate that I do not need to count my pennies mate!

Foot in mouth? Let's see what you have!

View attachment 105841View attachment 105833View attachment 105835View attachment 105836
toy.

I wouldn't say i'm making an **** of myself at all in fact i can see that you have auto finess avalanche there which was the first snow foam i tried out and was massively unimpressed which is why i explored other brands and settled on bilt hamber you should really try it out.

And yes i do have to count the pennies and i'm made up for you that you are in a position where you don't but every time a detailing thread starts you come across very quickly to try and disprove and discredit everything and claim it is all just a marketing ploy when a prewash is only applying a cleaning agent prior to the act of the cleaning process itself which especially Lee has more than proved it worth in the tests that he kindly took the time to carry out.

I don't have garage set up like your good self and if i'm honest have to fabricate, scrounge and repair most of the things i use and make do with what i have however to list some of my set up i use:

Karcher K4 with a 15m heavy duty hose and an MTM SGS35 short trigger with quick connection and nozzles.
Karcher HDS745 pressure washer which i have just retired as it keeps tripping though it might be cured if i wire 16amp plug as reccomended.
Karcher NT65 vacuum cleaner. This is my favourite i saved this as the small motherboard inside blew and was only running on one motor but i wired both motors (it's twin motor) through the same relay and it came back to life.
Recently picked up a karcher W4 wet vac for £99
Karcher Sc3 easy fix steam cleaner - new
Bissell spot clean Pro - new
several valet pro boars hair detail brushes
several soft detail brushes (like make up brushes)
Barrel brushes from amazon for the wheels
drill brushes medium and soft
3-4 Vikan brushes for the tyres
Autofoam
Surfex HD
BH DSW
WOWO Contact 121 wax
3 bottles of WOWO Crystal Sealant
Cq3.0 UK on order
Megs Tyre gel
LRC leather kit
like everyone else i world of MF clothes 5 waffles weave, 4 kent drying towels, 2 megs drying towels, 2 Tommy drying towel from clean your ride (these are amazing!)
Argos DA i just can't justify the price of a Rupes bigfoot or flex against a £1500 car but i'm happy to work a little harder.
Megs and lake country MF cutting/finishing pads and interfaces
Scholl S20
all grades of hex logic pads
Megs 105 and 205 compound
Megs sealant
Detail driven snow foam bottle santa is bringing me as the missus didn't know what to get.

Plus two large boxes in the shed of god knows what i have put in there a million tins of Simoniz probably i wouldn't give that to my worst enemy

Here's a picture of the detailing kit i keep at work:



Don't let the fairy liquid bottle fool you it's filled with AG Shampoo as i like the squirty bottle i have anothe MTM 3500 gun there under the compressor plus a short trigger Nilfisk Alto i was adapting and over on the left under the snow foam bottle is a cheaper £30 gun with a karcher quick adapter on it from amazon which to honest work just as well as the SGS35 i don't notice much difference.

With it all i do pretty well probably getting 90-95% correction and i honing my wet sanding skills ready for next year on a practice panel that you can't see under that work bench i will be getting a depth gauge prior to doing that though.

And as far as the car goes i love my pokey little V6 w203 i was considering changing it earlier this year to something a bit newer but after sitting in a w205 i wasn't very impressed and the computer gadgetry doesn't appeal to me i like to be able to change brake pads without adjusting them via a laptop.



The good news however is we are going to replace 2017 family Zafira in January with a 2020 VW Sharan so that is quite exciting as it gets far more use than my car and being a Vauxhall it's start to showthe strain of regular use will be a shame to see it go though as it is the wifes first car.



Hope it helps fella maybe we should start a detailing set up thread outside of Lee's one here it would be great to what everyone else is using.

 

[chrisk2010]

Chrisk2010, "Are there any pressure washing techniques or products, attachments that you recommend? I have been looking at ordering an under car pressure washer attachment to use at the prewash stage."

Saw an article on this, If you have a Karcher patio cleaner, turn or upside down the put it under the car. Might be easier if you put a couple of castors on it. I had one but it was useless for my block paving so chucked it in the bin before I saw this.View attachment 105847

haha i have never thought on that!

I was looking at something cheap and cheerful like me on amazon like this for £30.

 

[chic0821]

Like that, will have a look on Amazon

I'm gonna have to get all my bottles in order, tallest to the right & shortest to the left or is it most used to the right, ach forget it, will just leave them the way they are

 

[Deleted member 126251]

I wouldn't say i'm making an **** of myself at all in fact i can see that you have auto finess avalanche there which was the first snow foam i tried out and was massively unimpressed which is why i explored other brands and settled on bilt hamber you should really try it out.

And yes i do have to count the pennies and i'm made up for you that you are in a position where you don't but every time a detailing thread starts you come across very quickly to try and disprove and discredit everything and claim it is all just a marketing ploy when a prewash is only applying a cleaning agent prior to the act of the cleaning process itself which especially Lee has more than proved it worth in the tests that he kindly took the time to carry out.

I don't have garage set up like your good self and if i'm honest have to fabricate, scrounge and repair most of the things i use and make do with what i have however to list some of my set up i use:

Karcher K4 with a 15m heavy duty hose and an MTM SGS35 short trigger with quick connection and nozzles.
Karcher HDS745 pressure washer which i have just retired as it keeps tripping though it might be cured if i wire 16amp plug as reccomended.
Karcher NT65 vacuum cleaner. This is my favourite i saved this as the small motherboard inside blew and was only running on one motor but i wired both motors (it's twin motor) through the same relay and it came back to life.
Recently picked up a karcher W4 wet vac for £99
Karcher Sc3 easy fix steam cleaner - new
Bissell spot clean Pro - new
several valet pro boars hair detail brushes
several soft detail brushes (like make up brushes)
Barrel brushes from amazon for the wheels
drill brushes medium and soft
3-4 Vikan brushes for the tyres
Autofoam
Surfex HD
BH DSW
WOWO Contact 121 wax
3 bottles of WOWO Crystal Sealant
Cq3.0 UK on order
Megs Tyre gel
LRC leather kit
like everyone else i world of MF clothes 5 waffles weave, 4 kent drying towels, 2 megs drying towels, 2 Tommy drying towel from clean your ride (these are amazing!)
Argos DA i just can't justify the price of a Rupes bigfoot or flex against a £1500 car but i'm happy to work a little harder.
Megs and lake country MF cutting/finishing pads and interfaces
Scholl S20
all grades of hex logic pads
Megs 105 and 205 compound
Megs sealant
Detail driven snow foam bottle santa is bringing me as the missus didn't know what to get.

Plus two large boxes in the shed of god knows what i have put in there a million tins of Simoniz probably i wouldn't give that to my worst enemy

Here's a picture of the detailing kit i keep at work:

View attachment 105849

Don't let the fairy liquid bottle fool you it's filled with AG Shampoo as i like the squirty bottle i have anothe MTM 3500 gun there under the compressor plus a short trigger Nilfisk Alto i was adapting and over on the left under the snow foam bottle is a cheaper £30 gun with a karcher quick adapter on it from amazon which to honest work just as well as the SGS35 i don't notice much difference.

With it all i do pretty well probably getting 90-95% correction and i honing my wet sanding skills ready for next year on a practice panel that you can't see under that work bench i will be getting a depth gauge prior to doing that though.

And as far as the car goes i love my pokey little V6 w203 i was considering changing it earlier this year to something a bit newer but after sitting in a w205 i wasn't very impressed and the computer gadgetry doesn't appeal to me i like to be able to change brake pads without adjusting them via a laptop.

View attachment 105851View attachment 105853View attachment 105854

The good news however is we are going to replace 2017 family Zafira in January with a 2020 VW Sharan so that is quite exciting as it gets far more use than my car and being a Vauxhall it's start to showthe strain of regular use will be a shame to see it go though as it is the wifes first car.

View attachment 105852

Hope it helps fella maybe we should start a detailing set up thread outside of Lee's one here it would be great to what everyone else is using.

Good on ya mate everybody respects a battler (and believe me,I've been there).

I'd also have a shed full of products if I didn't keep giving it away. I've travelled and moved home often and we have a rule that If an item (within reason) has not been used for two years, it has to go.

It started with you being insulting because I do not blindly follow what people say. First I'm too mean to buy car products and now it is because I question what people say.

I like to question statements and understand why the poster has made a particular statement. All the uncontrolled experiments that people do, to try and prove their point, does not prove a single thing. It is all opinion, same as your view on Autofinesse Snow Foam, just an opinion. Does not upset me that you do not like it.

 

[LeeJV]

haha i have never thought on that!

I was looking at something cheap and cheerful like me on amazon like this for £30.

View attachment 105859

That's what I was just looking at too.. I've tried the karcher one but mine isn't hinged so it doesn't work too well.

For the amount of use it's going to get I probably wouldn't spend any more than that.

 

[LeeJV]

Collecting the replacement Daily driver tomorrow and the weather looks shocking down here till the weekend, so will have plenty of dirt over it by then.

So the next test (although I'm pretty certain what the outcome will be anyway) will be rinse a panel, Apply SF, dwell and rinse

Next panel.
Apply SF direct with No prior rinse.

Next panel
Rinse panel, apply Citrus-pre-wash, dwell and rinse.

Next panel.
Apply Citrus-pre-wash directly, dwell and rinse

That will cover 1 side of the car and the Rear

Then on the other side if anyone has any suggestions of another method they want me to try pls do

Maybe doing it with a PH Neutral SF for those worried about LSP Safe, acidic and alkaline?

 

[chrisk2010]

Good on ya mate. It started with you being insulting because I do not blindly follow what people say. I have not insulted you.

I like to question statements and understand why the poster has made a particular statement. All the uncontrolled experiments that people do, to try and prove their point, does not prove a single thing.

To be honest Rory i wasn't trying to insult you it was a light hearted joke not a stab at whether you are cheap or not i use dishwasher tablets and toothpaste as examples as they are cleaning products themselves.

Lee has gone to great trouble and effort to show that the products and techniques do have a lot of merit and work very well especially here:

Is snow foam worth it? | Detailing

He showed there that SF in fact does work and you yourself said you would give BH snow foam a try as opposed to auto finess where we are complete agreement it really does barely do anything and when i started using it i increased the strength to neat.

 

[Deleted member 126251]

....... if anyone has any suggestions of another method they want me to try pls do
-------...................

Lee - dirty car that has been allowed to dry and the dirt bake on . i.e. as it would happen in summer or a car parked in a garage and not used for a while.

 

[chrisk2010]

Has anyone ever felt the need to apply a dedicated bug remover before washing the car to soften and help remove the bug splats i have never purchased anything dedicated to this as citrus and/or SF seems to do the job for me.

That being said if i was to use it i'd probably treat the affected areas (bumper, windscreen, wing mirrors) first to soften things up then SF over it after it's had time to dwell.

Then on the other side if anyone has any suggestions of another method they want me to try pls do

Maybe doing it with a PH Neutral SF for those worried about LSP Safe, acidic and alkaline?

How about using a PH neutral shampoo in place of snow foam and citrus? Might be good for those that do not have or want a snow foam set up and most pressure washer have a solution feature for soaping.

In the hotter weather i take advantage of the solution feature on which ever pressure washer i'm using to wet the panels before and after contact to help prevent thing getting baked on while washing the car but before i caught the detailing bug i used to use it to apply shampoo as a prewash to soften the dirt then pressure wash.

 

[ToeKnee]

A question from me, can you use normal shampoo in a snow foam lance? I.e. after snow foam and rinse?

 

[chrisk2010]

A question from me, can you use normal shampoo in a snow foam lance? I.e. after snow foam and rinse?

You sure can, how beneficial it is though compared to using a dedicated product i'm not to sure and it wouldn't foam as well but it would certainly help a little in any case.

Working about the Panel impact ratio (PIR) would be key and maybe playing about with the strengths a bit to get the best from it.

If you have a good LSP (last step protection) like Lee's car then i suppose it would work very well however if i was to try it on my wifes car which can easily go 6-8 weeks between cleans then it would be less effective.

Someone put up on a facebook detailing group last night that BH surfex hd can be used as a pressure washer shampoo but i think diluting down a TFR would probably be more cost effective in that instance, like if you washing washing multiple fleet vans.

Admittedly when i use the solution feature in the hotter weather i do go for a cheap PH neutral shampoo to reduce the risk chemically burning the clear coat in the sun.

I'm quite tempted to pick up a bottle of halfords shampoo and try it neat through the SF lance.

 

[ToeKnee]

Thank you for the reply. I do have and use snow foam as the first product, I normally bucket wash after so just wondered whether I could use the lance to apply a layer of shampoo then use my mitt to clean the car. Seems like I can, again, thank you.

 

[LeeJV]

Lee - dirty car that has been allowed to dry and the dirt bake on . i.e. as it would happen in summer or a car parked in a garage and not used for a while.

Well yes that's one area that needs to be tested, but this time of year, its unlikely to get baked on, the best I could do is use my warm air blower to dry the panels with dirt.

Not wanting to open another can of worms... but it would have been better to wash the car free any dirt and debris etc before putting it away.. as that will need even more chemical to soften it.

 

[Deleted member 126251]

Well yes that's one area that needs to be tested, but this time of year, its unlikely to get baked on, the best I could do is use my warm air blower to dry the panels with dirt.

Not wanting to open another can of worms... but it would have been better to wash the car free any dirt and debris etc before putting it away.. as that will need even more chemical to soften it.

Agree but I cannot be ar$$ed to wash the car whenever it gets a bit of dirt on it & I appreciate it more when it is nice and clean.

 

[LeeJV]

Also to answer the other question. Yes

Most good shampoo works well through a faom lance, but as Chris said you need to know your PIR

So for instance.if you put 20ml of shampoo into 15ltrs of water in a bucket, the you would need the same end dilution ratio or PIR

So for me, my set up would be 300ml water in a cannon, resulting in 5ltrs of water used through the lance. So that would work out to about 6-10mls of shampoo into the lance.. again this does vary depending on what shampoo your using.

Bh Auto foam, Aenso Pure, Garage therapy One and Labocosmetica Semper all work very well this way.

I'll do 1 panel with that method aswell on the next test

As for bug remover. Yes I use it. Citrus is and acidic APC but a dedicated bug remover Capro Bug Off is designed for that very purpose and is safe for coatings and LSP.. spray on, foam over the top. Dwell rinse.

 

[chrisk2010]

Agree but I cannot be ar$$ed to wash the car whenever it gets a bit of dirt on it & I appreciate it more when it is nice and clean.

To be honest Rory your car would be the perfect candidate for what we are discussing as it's sound like the car is used sparingly and kept warm and dry so your only dealing with light soiling and dust so would benefit a lot from a good first stage wash.

If you have a good solid base to work with so a light machine polish, (which it may not need, i have never seen your car but most benefit from a light pass with a one step compound and finish pad) and well prepared before applying the LSP whether it be a sealant, wax or ceramic you shouldn't really need to do any more than a quick and pre-wash and once over with the pressure washer, rinse with DI water and blow dry to keep on top of it.

 

[LeeJV]

@chrisk2010

What he just said

 

[Deleted member 126251]

@chrisk2010

What he just said

My whole issue with the SF (effectiveness) debate is that I don't think it works that well on cars that are not regularly cleaned. If a car gets used and dirty and then stands for 3 weeks or more, will the SF be as effective as on a car that gets washed every week. The cars that get a weekly wash probably get washed because they are filthy. I go out for a drive and get that layer of brown spray, a week or two later another layer of brown sppray and then a week later it gets a wash.......

 

[millc63]

Slightly off topic as its more post wash but do you all think it's worth getting a blower of some sort to dry the car or just keep on with the microfibre drying towels?