Pre Wash Debate.... Do you pre wash your Pre wash? What Say You??

[LeeJV]

My whole issue with the SF (effectiveness) debate is that I don't think it works that well on cars that are not regularly cleaned. If a car gets used and dirty and then stands for 3 weeks or more, will the SF be as effective as on a car that gets washed every week. The cars that get a weekly wash probably get washed because they are filthy. I go out for a drive and get that layer of brown spray, a week or two later another layer of brown sppray and then a week later it gets a wash.......

If you don't use a SF, are you still referring to Auto Finnese ? what do you use before your contact wash?

Also what LSP have you got on the car?

 

[LeeJV]

Slightly off topic as its more post wash but do you all think it's worth getting a blower of some sort to dry the car or just keep on with the microfibre drying towels?

Hey dude

IMO yes definitely
If you can dry the car without too much contact that will always be safer,
You can do more damage drying car than washing, esp on softer paint
There several different "safer "approaches
1. Dry your car with a super soft damp Towel/s and a QD to add some form lubrication to drying phase esp in warmer weather to avoid Dry Drag or Blot the water with the towel

2 Dry the car with water. You can get water to sheet off the car by changing the contact angle of rinse to a open hose or watering can.
Then use a blower to blow the excess water out and off.

3 Buy DI water Vessel. These are especially good in the summer when water spotting is an issue, and even more so in winter when doing a contact less wash
Then finish off with a Blower.

I have 2 blowers one cordless Flex Blower this is ok for wheels mirrors , trims shuts etc but not powerful enough to a whole car properly,
also have a Big Boi Blower Pro wall mounted, with an extended hose, you can dry a car in no time

My personal method changes depending on weather etc, but in most cases I'll get most water off my sheeting with DI water vessel, towel dry the glass,and use my blower for all the intricate parts and wheel wells, etc.

It's not an essential process, its just a very good way to dry a car esp after a full paint correction.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

My whole issue with the SF (effectiveness) debate is that I don't think it works that well on cars that are not regularly cleaned. If a car gets used and dirty and then stands for 3 weeks or more, will the SF be as effective as on a car that gets washed every week. The cars that get a weekly wash probably get washed because they are filthy. I go out for a drive and get that layer of brown spray, a week or two later another layer of brown sppray and then a week later it gets a wash.......

Apply a ceramic coating or some other high quality long lasting sealant, and then get yourself a DI vessel with cordless jet wash and snow foam attachment. After driving in wet or dirty weather, snow foam the car and rinse it with water from he DI vessel. No need to dry.

You’ll be surprised by the results, that brown layer will be gone, and there will be no water marks from washing. It will be done in less than 10 minutes, no contact with the bodywork and probably 80% as good as having spent a couple of hours washing.

 

[LeeJV]

I dont want to assume anything as that's a bad thing, but its seems Rory that your car may not have a decent sealant on the paintwork, leaving it so long between cleans with bonded dirt on the car is not going to make cleaning that easy. Hence why you may be getting consistent poor results with various methods that we are suggesting

 

[Deleted member 126251]

Get a water filter. No dryng at all.

Apply a ceramic coating or some other high quality long lasting sealant, and then get yourself a DI vessel with cordless jet wash and snow foam attachment. After driving in wet or dirty weather, snow foam the car and rinse it with water from he DI vessel. No need to dry.

You’ll be surprised by the results, that brown layer will be gone, and there will be no water marks from washing. It will be done in less than 10 minutes, no contact with the bodywork and probably 80% as good as having spent a couple of hours washing.

I've had a filter for about 2 years now.

My point is that I don't want to go out and immediately wash the car when I arrive home.

I "currently" have the Turtle Wax Hybrid CEramic Sealant. Some will poo poo it but every review I've seen by detailers (that detail for a living) rate the TW highly.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Get a water filter. No dryng at all.

I've had a filter for about 2 years now.

My point is that I don't want to go out and immediately wash the car when I arrive home.

I can understand that, I also am happy to leave the car dirty if it will be properly washed with the the week.

PS the filters are like witchcraft are they? I would never have believed that they made so much a difference until I tried it - like winter tyres!

 

[Deleted member 126251]

If you don't use a SF, are you still referring to Auto Finnese ? what do you use before your contact wash?

Also what LSP have you got on the car?

We are in disagreement on snowfoam so let's put that aside . I'm asking if you've done (or would do) a test with your preferred products and methods on a dirty car that has not been regularly washed.

My usage tends to be:

A) Go out somewhere for lunch/dinner etc drive home. Car is dirty & wet park in garage.
B) A week or month & several drives later, when it is dry outside and not too cold, I decide to clean the car....

Car is coated in TW Hybrid Ceramic products (highly rated on every review I've seen by people who wash cars for a living) and washed with TWHC shampoo

What I do.
1) Citrus prewash on bad spots and bug bodies (very effective}.
2) Rinse or snowfoam (I've tried both ways)
3) Rrinse with the PW and then rinse with filtered water
4) Blow off excess water
5) Park in garage

If, even after one outing & I leave the dirt to dry and harden, the still car needs a proper wash with a mitt (which for me (with a problem) back is the hard part that I'd like to do less often).

 

[LeeJV]

We are in disagreement on snowfoam so let's put that aside . I'm asking if you've done (or would do) a test with your preferred products and methods on a dirty car that has not been regularly washed.

My usage tends to be:

A) Go out somewhere for lunch/dinner etc drive home. Car is dirty & wet park in garage.
B) A week or month & several drives later, when it is dry outside and not too cold, I decide to clean the car....

Car is coated in TW Hybrid Ceramic products (highly rated on every review I've seen by people who wash cars for a living) and washed with TWHC shampoo

What I do.
1) Citrus prewash on bad spots and bug bodies (very effective}.
2) Rinse or snowfoam (I've tried both ways)
3) Rrinse with the PW and then rinse with filtered water
4) Blow off excess water
5) Park in garage

If, even after one outing & I leave the dirt to dry and harden, the still car needs a proper wash with a mitt (which for me (with a problem) back is the hard part that I'd like to do less often).

Ok
I can do that.. Snow foam isn't essential if your using a citrus-pre-wash. But you could foam over the top to increase the dwell time of the citrus.

I do that method regularly and can be done and cleaned without contact, saving your back.

The only thing that would need contact would be the glass.

 

[Wotchmaker]

Snow foam is a must IMO

 

[Spider10]

Ok
I can do that.. Snow foam isn't essential if your using a citrus-pre-wash. But you could foam over the top to increase the dwell time of the citrus.

I do that method regularly and can be done and cleaned without contact, saving your back.

The only thing that would need contact would be the glass.

The glass of red or white

 

[LeeJV]

Unfortunately for me I'm T total. But it would have been Red

 

[Spider10]

Unfortunately for me I'm T total. But it would have been Red

Im not allowed to drink but nothing wrong with a becks blue or Guinness 0,0

 

[chrisk2010]

If a car gets used and dirty and then stands for 3 weeks or more, will the SF be as effective as on a car that gets washed every week.

The short answer is yes, here is my wifes car used everyday nearly all day for two weeks i used BH at PIR of 4% allowed to dwell for 5-10 minutes i wasn't timing but had a coffee while i waited.





It was a bit of a final detail for the car as the new VW Touran will be ready to collect Friday, the dirty side has also be treated with snow foam so it may not appear as dirty as it really was but it was caked on but we gave it a good clean through, vacuumed, treated and extracted the interior, then steamed cleaned wiped down, dressed the interior with aerospace 303, finished the exterior off with Polar Seal and clean the glass.

To be honest though what Lee said:

Snow foam isn't essential if your using a citrus-pre-wash. But you could foam over the top to increase the dwell time of the citrus.

If what your doing is working for you then great . Baked on dirt in the summer month or even dried on grime during the winter ones both benefit from pre-treating with either a decent snow foam or citrus just like soaking a Pirex dish that has had last nights lasagne cooked in it but if it particularly baked on then a quick SF over the top will help boost the cleaning ability.

To be honest though if your pre-wash routine is working for you that's great no one has the right way of doing things everyone tailors how they do it to what works best for them.

Quick Edit:

To touch on the subject of a good sealant, the new car will get a full chemical decontamination and i'll judge whether it will need a finishing pass on the day but i'm hoping it won't being a 20 plate, then it'll be sealed with Wowo's crystal sealant (after wiping down with panel wipe) as i have two bottles i picked up in the sale and i'll do all this to make future cleaning easier and protect the car. I really really wish i had time to get a ceramic coating on it but it's going to hit the ground running being so close to Christmas.

 

[LeeJV]

Thanks for taking the time to do that Chris, as TBH, it's so wet here that I couldn't really see a way of doing a test with baked on grime until later in the spring.

As for the new Whip, its going to be great having another project car to work on, I too have another newish daily that needs some TLC, but will struggle to get it coated this time of year as we have too much moisture in the air. So going to use Carpro Hrydo 2, 2 coats of that should see it through till spring.

I wondered if you'd take advantage of the wowo's sale. I certainly did

 

[chrisk2010]

Thanks for taking the time to do that Chris, as TBH, it's so wet here that I couldn't really see a way of doing a test with baked on grime until later in the spring.

As for the new Whip, its going to be great having another project car to work on, I too have another newish daily that needs some TLC, but will struggle to get it coated this time of year as we have too much moisture in the air. So going to use Carpro Hrydo 2, 2 coats of that should see it through till spring.

I wondered if you'd take advantage of the wowo's sale. I certainly did

It's no trouble i set out to document the final detail a bit more but it was absolutely freezing Saturday and although cleaning at work to take advantage of the canopy that area is like a little wind tunnel.

We're really looking forward to the new car although the Zafira was her first so she is feeling a bit sentimental this week about letting it go, with the new being an Auto i may actually drive this one .

I have been wondering how the sealant would apply but i'm hoping if i can get the decon done early enough it won't be too bad to apply but i'll start small and see where it goes, everything takes a bit of playing with this time of year but in for a penny.

I have been eyeing up Carpro Hydro 2 it would be great for cleaning my bosses truck but have a few bottles of polar seal i have been picking up to work through, though this time of year though spray sealants are worth there weight in gold. We have gone of the subject of prewash a tad but i have become very fond of Polar seal in the winter months it beads well and lasts about 4 weeks by that time though you'll have washed and applied again.

When the Zafira got a detail a few months back i literally had to machine polish the stuff off i used surfex to 25% and the car was still beading in the end a quick pass got it.

I only picked up some Sealant and interior cleaner in there sale because i have been treating myself to a few upgrades equipment wise so kinda spent my consumable money

 

[Deleted member 126251]

The short answer is yes, here is my wifes car used everyday nearly all day for two weeks i used BH at PIR of 4% allowed to dwell for 5-10 minutes i wasn't timing but had a coffee while i waited.



View attachment 106030

Did you do a "Lee" test? White pad to wipe across the clean side. It is hard to tell from the photo how clean it actually is!

 

[chrisk2010]

Did you do a "Lee" test? White pad to wipe across the clean side. It is hard to tell from the photo how clean it actually is!

I didn't Lee has already done it and it was really all about getting the car clean enough and removing all the hotwheels cars our son has dropped over the past couple of months.

The colour of the car has always hid the dirt well i'm really quite going to miss it in that respect but that's why i shared a pick of the wheel too as it shows up much better and the wheels on that car are not coated so what you see is what you get with that picture.

I mention that because depending on the type of coating pre-treating will work better for some than others, i cleaned my boss Amorak today and that thing last had a wash about six months ago it had zero coating left today, TFR burns, swirls that i'm sure i saw Van gogh's starry night in, it needed 10% APC, snowfoam over the top as lee suggested to shift the majority.

Once dwelled and rinsed i then had to treat the wheels twice with BH korrosol plus another snow foam over the top to work in the crevices with a detail brush, rinse again before i would touch it with a mitt and to be fair i was more worried about having to throw a mitt away after than i was about damaging the paint work. The shear level of contamination i could feel through the mitt so the dirt really had something to bond to. Even when i sprayed the polar seal on at the end i could see it was have trouble bonding with the clear coat as it wasn't forming nice uniform little beads like it does with mine or my wifes car. I really felt like i was trying to make concrete sparkle with this one.

With my own car a snow foam would shift far more as it has a better coating, cleaned fortnightly and is fully detailed yearly so the contaminants do not bond as well, on a ceramic coating it would work even better.

It came out ok in the end though but definitely needs a full detail and mop if you get closer you can see everything this picture isn't showing.

 

[Deleted upon users own request member 138506]

Hey Guys.

I know in the past we've had a long debate about "Snow Foam" That topic had a large amount of different Views, so now winter is here I thought maybe its a good time to start another Little debate that could get everyone involved in. You never know, Maybe we could all learn some new tips along the way.

I look forward to your views and methods soon.

Lee

Lee, this is my method - let me know what you think as you know what you're on about....

After trying so many products and wasting money over the years I've narrowed it down to two brands that makes it less of a headache when ordering stuff.

Polishing - about every six months
Menzerna Final Finish 3800 Polish - using a Flex XFE 15 150 with foam ultrafine finishing pad.
Menzerna Power Lock Ultimate Protection - using a Flex XFE 15 150 with foam ultrafine finishing pad.

Washing - only if dirty!
Autoglym Wheel Cleaner applied to wheels - allow to soak a few minutes but dont rise yet...
Autoglym Polar Blast SF - with power washer and foam injector - allow to dwell 10 minutes
Rinse off - with power nozzle
Autoglym Polar Wash - using foam injector
Go over car quickly with mit making sure the polar wash doesn't dry
Final rinse with power washer.

If I'm in a hurry I just leave it at that or might either ........

put Autoglym Polar Seal through the power washer or detail with Menzerna Endless Shine.

 

[chrisk2010]

As we have discussed it seems people are getting better results apply to dry vehicles.

 

[LeeJV]

Lee, this is my method - let me know what you think as you know what you're on about....

After trying so many products and wasting money over the years I've narrowed it down to two brands that makes it less of a headache when ordering stuff.

Polishing - about every six months
Menzerna Final Finish 3800 Polish - using a Flex XFE 15 150 with foam ultrafine finishing pad.
Menzerna Power Lock Ultimate Protection - using a Flex XFE 15 150 with foam ultrafine finishing pad.

Washing - only if dirty!
Autoglym Wheel Cleaner applied to wheels - allow to soak a few minutes but dont rise yet...
Autoglym Polar Blast SF - with power washer and foam injector - allow to dwell 10 minutes
Rinse off - with power nozzle
Autoglym Polar Wash - using foam injector
Go over car quickly with mit making sure the polar wash doesn't dry
Final rinse with power washer.

If I'm in a hurry I just leave it at that or might either ........

put Autoglym Polar Seal through the power washer or detail with Menzerna Endless Shine.

Morning Bud. Thanks for your input and chosen method. It's good to see some more opinions

Menzerna powerlock is a very popular sealant that can be applied best with a DA, the 15mm Throw is great for finishing and works well with it. although you shouldn't really need to use a finishing polish prior every 6months, you should just be able to fully wash and decon, IPA wipe over then re apply. Ive also heard that Collonite 845 works extremely well with powerlock to extend its durability as a topper.

As for your cleaning routine that's a pretty good method TBH and very similar to mine, I dont tend to use wheel cleaner on every wash though but depends on soiling. You could just use a citrus prewash on the wheels and in the barrels then cover with foam when foaming the car.

If you use a fallout wheel cleaner its quite damaging to brake pads and can in some cases cause them to delaminta as its breaks down. Hence why I use a prewash and foam, these a fallout remover every 1K miles or so.

I cant comment on the power of Autoglym Foam as I dont use it, but if its working for you then great,
I too apply my shampoo via a foamer or cannon, it helps to have some shampoo diluted in a spray bottle to prime the mitts first before using, or soaking in a bucket.