Question for Plodd

[illidan]

i was only doing 25 through the speed bumps because i was in a very low ford fiesta (having now seen the light ) and the amount of speed bumps on the road is unreal

 

[glojo]

i was only doing 25 through the speed bumps because i was in a very low ford fiesta (having now seen the light ) and the amount of speed bumps on the road is unreal

Okay I'll buy it,

You were charged with 'avoiding speed bumps during the hours of darkness?????'

My wife ALWAYS avoids going over speed bumps whenever I am in our 'limo' we have never been stopped, cautioned, spoken to, or prosecuted, plus she has been doing this for sixteen years.

I don't know you; so can only assume that your a mild mannered, polite, good natured person that has been singled out by some vindictive over zealous, obnoxious, abusive, power crazy police officer that perhaps reported you for driving without reasonable consideration for other road users????

Did you plead not guilty?

 

[illidan]

damn straight i plead not guilty, the two plod that pulled me told the court that there was another car coming the other way, but when question on what the car was, both plod (bearing in mind that they are highly trained in the art of observation and details) couldn't tell the court what car it was,what sex was driving, and what the car itself was.

as you can guess there was no car

 

[Swiss Toni]

The Police nowadays seem to have competitions to see who can keep a road shut the longest following a serious road traffic incident. The excuse given is that it is a crime scene and they will keep it closed for however long it takes. This will mean sometimes a three hour wait for someone to come along and take very detailed measurements to prepare drawing. Taking these measurements can sometimes take another four hours!!!!!

Why not use a digital, calibrated camera and take 'hundreds' of pictures from a helicopter?? In the 21st century we now have technology that will convert these pictures or even take them in 3D. Taking pictures from an exact height will allow measurements to be taken, I accept that road surface tests, braking test might still need to be carried out, but these are sometimes carried out days after the incident?

The arguement that tests have to be carried out straight away is laughable, our country can have rain, snow or even sunshine all within the time the road is closed for these tests!!! No way can anyone argue the tests were carried out in the same conditions.

Road rage, road rage. Vehicles that get diverted off this trunk route simply get 'lost' in the wilds of Devon causing absolute chaos and mayhem on our minor roads and in our small villages.

In Devon there is one main trunk route** which allows access through the county into and from Cornwall, it is not uncommon for this road to be closed for sixteen hours simply because two cars have collided and one person was seriously injured. Sixteen hours is crazy, indeed this year it has even managed a 24 hour closure, no doubt someone is already planning how they will beat that record.

John the rant


** There is the smaller, narrower A30, but this is a secondary route that caters for traffic that wants to access the northern regions of both counties.

The answer has something to do with -

1. Preservation of life
2. Prevention and detection of crime

So far as (1.) is concerned, the kind of collision that results in a fatality is not always obvious, and given that they take the advice of the medics ("serious condition") then they have to work with what is there.
Any damage to the road surface might provide evidence of the collision (2.) but also if due to burning / spilt oil leaves the surface in a dangerous condition (and you'd want that put right before you rode your m/cycle over it....)
Working at the scene of a collision on a major road is a hugely dangerous activity (look at H&S legislation for the the road maint. industry) - the cops are less interested in you getting home 20 minutes later than they are about a further risk to everyone at the scene.

If you are ever involved in a serious collision, exactly how much do you care whether Joe Public is late home from work, or whether the evidence of the foll who caused you injuries is gathered?!

What REALLY concerns me is that when there is a fatality on the railway (read suicide) there are actually targets for getting the line open (1 / 2 hours)!!! due to the financial penalties imposed on the rail companies.
Kill your neighbour and leave the body on the railway - the investigation will be far less than if you burn the house down etc.



Ticket for speedhumps? You're havin a larf.

What was the offence?

 

[illidan]

they cautioned me for dangerous driving, then when the summones came through there was 2, dangerous driving and driving without due care and attention. went to the local plod station(kings heath in birmingham) and the chief superintendent told me that if they didn't get me for one they would do me for the other. told him this wasn't fair and he agreed but lo and behold 4 points for driving without due care and attention

 

[glojo]

couldn't tell the court what car it was, and what the car itself was.

I would certainly expect them to at least give a colour of vehicle.

I can never understand why a police officer would lie and in this case two of them?? They do not get a bonus for prosecutions, they no doubt do not know you from adam? They risk being prosecuted for perjury.. Unlike a defendant that merely gets found guilty.

I would hate with a capital 'H' to be prosecuted for something I did not do, it could very easily make someone feel bitter.

Take care
John

 

[illidan]

well let me put it this way i don't trust any copper anymore, not when they are self serving and see the public as a nuisance getting in their way to a promotion and a big fat pension when they retire.
they just wanted to make an example out of me

but thanks anyway john

take care and watch out for dodgy coppers

 

[glojo]

The answer has something to do with -

1. Preservation of life
2. Prevention and detection of crime

Hi Swiss Toni,
I certainly have no problem with the closure of roads for the preservation of life, and the detection of crime.

However my point is that these closures are definitely getting more regular, and without doubt are closed for a longer duration.

We are continually told that road deaths and serious injury accidents are on the decline!! So surely if we are to believe this, then there should be LESS incidents of road closures????

The Police have allegedly got more modern state of the art equipment for measuring and taking samples from the road surface, so why are we seeing these closures that last such a long time?

I totally accept there may well be the very rare occasion that will need the road closed for an extended period, but I am NOT talking of the rare occasion. A serious injury accident may well warrant the road being closed if the injured party is likely to pass away, but usually the A & E department can quickly assess the injury and give a better diagnosis, but the senior officer will fail to take the responsibility to disagree with the attending ambulance crew, plus a full investigation has been started.

It is easy to say so what if joe public has been inconvenienced!! It goes much further though. You start getting 38 tonne plus articulated lorries diverted off into the wilderness, these vehicles regularly take away the corner of houses that are built close to the edge of narrow country lanes, they destroy very old historical bridges that were never designed to take the weight. They meet an equal sized vehicle coming in the opposite direction. Sometimes these issues cannot be avoided, but as I keep saying..... It is the unnecessary examples that I get annoyed with.


I am NOT talking about repairing the road following an incident and I totally agree with some of your points.

Any damage to the road surface might provide evidence of the collision (2.) but also if due to burning / spilt oil leaves the surface in a dangerous condition (and you'd want that put right before you rode your m/cycle over it....)

Last week there was a serious accident on the A38 where a car skidded, left the road and collided with a tree in a field!!!!!! The road was closed in both directions for 16 hours. The mud bank certainly was not damaged, neither I suppose was the tree in the middle of the field. Sixteen hours of absolute chaos. It was certainly NOT a fatal incident and no crimes had been committed apart from the idiot driving to fast for the conditions.

There was only the one vehicle involved and I have no idea if the driver was ever prosecuted, the incident occurred quite close to the Tamar Bridge so the access into Cornwall was blocked. This is what I find unacceptable and I have numerrous examples of this 'over zealousness'.

Regarding your railway incident, they are clearly always going to be gruesome, but surely if they are more serious then the line will be closed for however long it takes??? I am thinking of the definite suicide just outside of Reading that caused the Paddington to Plymouth express to de-rail?

What REALLY concerns me is that when there is a fatality on the railway (read suicide) there are actually targets for getting the line open (1 / 2 hours)!!! due to the financial penalties imposed on the rail companies.
Kill your neighbour and leave the body on the railway

A straight forward?? (bad choice of words) suicide must surely be investigated enough to satisfy the Coroner?

Kill your neighbour and leave the body on the railway

I always used to say run them over with your car and admit to driving without due care and attention, but now the blinking road will get closed off for longer than you will be jailed for!!

As usual thanks very much for your excellent points,
John

 

[Plodd]

well let me put it this way i don't trust any copper anymore, not when they are self serving and see the public as a nuisance getting in their way to a promotion and a big fat pension when they retire.
they just wanted to make an example out of me

but thanks anyway john

take care and watch out for dodgy coppers

If what you say is true I would have thought there should have been some doubt in the minds of the Magistrates and this is turn would have lead to a not guilty verdict. I am NOT calling you a liar but I feel there may be a little more to your case.
I have never reported anyone for driving between the humps but have warned a few. There is one road in Bury next to a school which has them. If drivers drive between the humps to avoid slowing down I will stop and advise them. If the driver explained his car was too low to go over them safely I would accept this if it appeared true and he was not speeding.

And we do not get promotion or a bigger pension if we prosecute more motorists.

John,

I cannot begin to imagine why the roads you mention should have been closed for as long as there were. I know with the motorways if the central reservation has been damages that will be repaired before the road is reopened. This will take time dependant on how bad the damage is.

My unit dealt with a fatal incident a short while back when a stolen car hit a tree and the driver was killed. In this case the road was closed for about 4 hours. I can assure you that our policy is to open the road as soon as possible. A few members of the motoring public are so stupid that cones and road closed signs mean nothing to them. And I had to sit at one end of the closure telling them 'yes the road is closed and no you can't get to Sainsburys that way'.

 

[glojo]

I cannot begin to imagine why the roads you mention should have been closed for as long as there were. I know with the motorways if the central reservation has been damages that will be repaired before the road is reopened. This will take time dependant on how bad the damage is.

Hi Plodd,
Thanks very much for taking the time to respond and I totally agree with everything you have kindly pointed out. Four hours is a perfectly acceptable time to close a road for what was clearly a serious incident that needed recording. Obviously the investigation will takes weeks or maybe months?

I have no problem with the closure of roads for the reasons both you and Swiss Toni have discussed, it is simply the ridiculous length of time that is becoming fashionable..

The truth is slowly being discovered
It is looking like there are only a very few officers in this force area that are qualified to investigate fatal or suspect fatal incidents and overtime will NOT be paid, so if the duty officer is committed the road stays closed until he, or another officer becomes available!!!!! That to me beggars believe. It is simply crass stupidity, (I am being polite) The unseen costs in transportation delays, truck drivers going over their hours and not making deliveries must be horrendous, simply because one person would not be paid overtime?? How many officers will be tied up keeping the road closed and sorting out the ensuing traffic snarl ups???? Bureaucracy gone mad and someone afraid to make the contraversial decision of actually authorising overtime!!!! Again I am NOT talking about the closure of a minor road, but the main arterial routing through a county. pathetic!!!!

John

 

[robert.saunders]

If memory serves me correctly (highly unlikely) the A14 is a major route that goes right through Cambridgeshire?

John

Quite right John, a real major route from Felixstowe port through to the M6 - not a bad road outside of Cambs, but through this county it really is awful, due to sheer volume of traffic being way beyond what the winding dual carriageway can cope with - exacerbated locally by the demands of Cambridge/M11 traffic. The surrounding routes are small country lanes, and so when a big smash happens on the '14 (very often) it causes gridlock. Not great.

 

[illidan]

the thing is plodd that i had an ex-copper as a witness who worked for the police most of his working life., he was a top grade traffic cop, with that many qualifications it was unreal, he was also part of a special 12 man team that was set up to help with rta's and the like and even he said that if this case had been passed to him he said he would of asked what was going on and thrown it in the bin.

 

[glojo]

the thing is plodd that i had an ex-copper as a witness who worked for the police most of his working life., he was a top grade traffic cop, with that many qualifications it was unreal, he was also part of a special 12 man team that was set up to help with rta's and the like and even he said that if this case had been passed to him he said he would of asked what was going on and thrown it in the bin.

It is unfair to argue your case over the Internet, but if you pay someone good money, they will say whatever you want to hear.

It always saddens me to see armchair critics (Retired military or Police) on Sky News\BBC\ITV criticising their former employers solely because they are being paid!!! Criticism must always be listened to, but when someone is being paid to give an opinion that the payee wants to hear and not what is factually accurate, I take exception to.

Has the law changed because to me someone that is in full control of a motor vehicle that elects to steer around a speed hump and drives on the wrong side of the road inconvienancing oncoming traffic is guilty of driving without reasonable consideration for other road users!!

A driver that is on the telephone, eating, drinking, or if a male driver picking his nose!! Is driving without due care and attention!!!!! Were you picking your nose? (sic joke) Times might well have changed as might the laws.

I still do not understand why two officers would allegedly pick on an innocent driver? Plodd has confirmed there is no incentive to do it, and getting a hard time in court is not an enjoyable experience for anyone.

We can insult each others dress style, we can insult each others 'other half', we can even say someone's breath stinks, but watch out if someone dares to criticise our driving!!!!

Regards,
John

 

[jeremytaylor]

John, You have my full agreement to your argument/point.

We were held up in similar circumstances on the M25 last year. Set off on a Saturday morning for Eurotunnel, normally a 75 minute cruise for us. Made the 'mistake' of not listening to the radio for traffic reports (no TMC then! ). Heading east, just past the M23 junction traffic ground to a halt. We were eventually diverted off at the next junction (some 3 hours later) and with all the consequential delays, eventually made it to Eurotunnel some 6 hours late.

I was dieing to find out what the heck all the delay was about. It turns out that some 12 hours previously a chemical tanker had driven off the motorway and down the embankment (driver probably fallen asleep). This ended up with the opposite west-bound carriageway being closed for 12 hours (why???) and the east-bound (our) carriageway being closed for 48 hours.

In these days of clear labelling of tankers, etc. does it really take that long to pump out into another tanker? In France they would probably close one lane and let the traffic flow whilst they got on with it.

Another morning driving up the A3 into Hook there was a 3 hour delay as traffic was diverted off. The reason? A youth had sadly been run over the night before whilst trying to cross the 6-lane road. There are high railings in the central reservation to deter this and to show that you are clearly not supposed to cross the road in this way. Full sympathy to the family, etc. but does it really need the road to be closed for 12 hours??

I do think the powers that be like to make a mountain out of a molehill and inflate their importance out of all proportion.

 

[anarchy-inc]

I think they only get upset if you don't slow down

I was talking to a guy that was busted for driving across the middle of a tiny painted roundabout in the centre of Rochdale at about 1am. Sounds innocent at first (I'm sure we all do it when no-one is around) but he was doing about 50mph in a 20mph zone

Sounds like he got busted for the speeding , not the roundabout speedbump.