R Class versus Q7

[Bobby Dazzler]

Big SUV's are sometimes not the most practical of vehicles and it is this issue that I think will either see it becoming popular or not? Is it suitable for traversing the 'B' roads of our beautiful countryside, is a GL bigger (longer\wider) than the Q7, or indeed the LWB R-class. Any input by anyone is always greatly appreciated.

I've stood next to - and sat in - a GL and it is huge. Seriously huge. I think the styling makes it look even bigger than it really is, but it would make a Grand Cherokee look like a Petite Cherokee!!

I'll be driving one on and off road next month so I'll let you know the verdict.

I think the GL will be more successful comercially than the R, as the market seems to have an insatiable for bigger, more expensive, and more luxurious SUVs. Afterall, what are you going to buy if you're set on outdo-ing the Jone's, and they have a brandspanking new Range Rover?

 

[ian_c_uk]

I stood next to the GL in the showroom the other day, the suspension was "down" and the boot floor was level with my belt buckle, and I'm only 5'10!

I really wouldn't like to load up the back of it, I was surprised just how small the boot was also (but then I'm kinda spoilt on boot space ).

 

[BTB 500]

I had a quick look at a GL in the showroom (not with a view to buying, they just happened to have one there when my SL was being serviced) and it didn't look that huge/excessive to me. It's certainly smaller than American "full size" SUVs (which are vast!), and I'm sure it will appeal to people who would consider a Grand Cherokee / Land Cruiser / Patrol / etc.

The GL is no bigger than a medium / long panel van like the Vito / Transporter or their MPV versions (V-Class, Viano, Caravelle, etc.) ... and nobody says those are 'impractical for UK roads'?!

 

[glojo]

I'll be driving one on and off road next month so I'll let you know the verdict.

We have been invited onto an 'Experience Day' with one, but having read these posts I simply cannot work up the enthusiasm (It would be only for the wife with me playing gooseberry laid in the back of our stretched limo!)

I am taking on-board what Bill is saying and if it is no wider than a Vaneo, V-class type vehicle then perhaps it's not too bad?

I do NOT want folks to fall out over size!! It is all relevant, my midget wife drives the E-class estate as her everyday vehicle, but as a housewife's runabout I think size wise I would not want to go bigger, longer or wider?

John

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I think I'd be very happy with the E-Class estate!!

Main reasons I'm going is:
* I like stuff I don't have to pay for!!
* I never get offered test drives at a dealer!! ...and I mean ever!!
* ...they said there's food involved!!

 

[glojo]

I think I'd be very happy with the E-Class estate!!

Main reasons I'm going is:
* I like stuff I don't have to pay for!!
* I never get offered test drives at a dealer!! ...and I mean ever!!
* ...they said there's food involved!!

Could you please let me know how you get on!

I take it you never got free Golf Club membership?

Ironic really that they gave me that perk!

John

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Could you please let me know how you get on!

I take it you never got free Golf Club membership?

Ironic really that they gave me that perk!

John

Will do!!

They don't even offer me a brochure!! ...never mind a golf club membership.

Actually I'm being unfair, they gave Mrs Dazzler some MB chocolates??!!

 

[ian_c_uk]

if it is no wider than a Vaneo, V-class type vehicle then perhaps it's not too bad?

Vaneo - tall \ long A class, nowhere near GL\V class sized!
V-class - Vito based \ transit sized, probably similar in footprint to GL.

That is all, normal service can be resumed

 

[BTB 500]

V-class - Vito based \ transit sized, probably similar in footprint to GL.

V-Class was the MPV version of the old Vito. The one based on the current Vito is called the Viano (which I'm sure is what John meant when he said Vaneo!).

 

[219]

I must confess to being disappointed with its looks. I wonder how many Audi Q7's have been sold?

If only Mercedes would listen to me and build an S-CLASS ESTATE (shout, hollah, scream!!) build a blooming S-class estate, scrap the R-class, scrap the GL, build an S-class estate

John the optimist

Just for you , John

 

[glojo]

Just for you , John

Excellent, plenty of space in the rear.

Shude very kindly designed a 'new' S-class estate for me which is 'parked' on my Desktop.

Regards
John

 

[hawk20]

It is a very odd thing with 4x4's that they are often fairly small though they almost always look big. They are usually quite short, BUT are tall and that makes them look bigger than they are.

Before everyone says rubbish here are some figures of the big 4X4's.

The GL is 2127mm wide including the mirrors. Believe it or not the ML is also 2127 mm wide including mirrors. The S class is about the same. The E class is 2063mm or a mere 2 inches narrower.

On length the E class estate is 4888mm long and the seemingly 'huge' ML is a mere 4780mm long or about 4 inches shorter than the E class.

The apparent giant GL is 5088mm long, about the same as a SWB S class at 5079mm but shorter than the LWB S class at 5181mm. So the GL is only 200mm longer than an E class estate or a mere 8 inches longer.

But the height of these vehicles creates the illusion. The ML is 1815 high and the GL is 1840 high (including roof rails). For comparison an S class is only 1473mm high (about a foot less).

So what's all the fuss about 4x4's? They are no longer or wider than large saloons; they are just taller -about a foot taller to be precise. Big deal. And the ML320cdi does 30mpg combined, better than many quite small petrol-driven saloons.

 

[hawk20]

As for the R class, it may look big but the normal one is only 34mm longer than an E class estate (or a measly 1.5 inches). And therein lies the cause of its failure.

You cannot sensibly get 3 rows of seats in a car only an inch or two longer than an E class. That is why the legroom in the front is less than an A class (or a B, a C or an E class) and why people like me (quite long legged -33 inch inside leg to be precise) cannot get the front seat back far enough to be comfortable and get adequate thigh support. So for me it is cramped in the front. Raising the seat can sometimes help where legroom is missing but not if some pimplehead has made it so that as you raise it, it swings forward, thus reducing the legroom still further.

To make matters worse someone saved money by having no tilt adjustment on the front seats. God even a Focus has that!

Then if I try and get in the back, there is not enough room there either. And the boot is about the size of a sportscar, much less than a B class, and nowhere near enough for my wife and I let alone the six people it is meant to carry in airline luxury. Ho, Ho, Ho.

The long wheelbase is 5165mm long -some 11" longer than an E class estate. Well you cannot get a third row of seats and peoples feet in 11" so something has to give. Same 320cdi engine and need for a bonnet, so its legroom and bootspace that goes.

I tried one of the early ones, intending to buy, but found all these problems. I suggested then it could be salvaged by putting in a bench seat in the back and making it like a big E class estate with 5 seats and lots of room for luggage. An occasional 2 extra seats could then be supplied like the E class. That might be OK but only if they restore full Mercedes-type legroom in the front. But it has flopped here and in the US and everyone now knows that. And it really can't have helped when Dr Z said in his Business Week interview that he thought the R class was 'exactly the kind of direction in which Mercedes should not be going'.

If Merc want niche markets why not an S class estate for Glojo; and a convertible S class for the US; and a convertible E class like we used to have and which was a great car and a good seller.

 

[BenzComander]

You want a cramped cabin, go try the Q7

Agree with the point about the R Class with the normal wheelbase, but the long has acres of space in the back, even with the drivers seat in a comfortable position for me (6.0'). It was very easy to get comfortable in the centre row of seats, and still easy to get into the rear most seats and get comfortable. As for where you then put everybodies luggage Roofbox from Hellfrauds please!

A little off topic, but I think Merc missed a trick with the B Class. Should have made it a 3+3 like the Fiat Multipla and Honda FRV. They missed a whole target audience there of people with four kids who still need to carry the associated luggage.

 

[ian_c_uk]

A little off topic, but I think Merc missed a trick with the B Class. Should have made it a 3+3 like the Fiat Multipla and Honda FRV. They missed a whole target audience there of people with four kids who still need to carry the associated luggage.

I guess they decided that people only wanted 5 seats? I don't know how many vaneos were ordered with the 6/7th seats, but I would assume not enough for them to think there was a demand.

I'm also not sure where vaneo owners are supposed to go, and whether the B really is the "replacement" or if we will see a new vaneo? I do wonder if this, with a normal engine and normal paint (and probably minus the arches \ kit etc) is the next vaneo:

Who knows.... I guess given the R-class and GL's exterior dimensions, and their pitifull boot space, MB think style is more important than space to sell cars.

 

[hawk20]

You want a cramped cabin, go try the Q7

Agree with the point about the R Class with the normal wheelbase, but the long has acres of space in the back, even with the drivers seat in a comfortable position for me (6.0'). It was very easy to get comfortable in the centre row of seats, and still easy to get into the rear most seats and get comfortable. As for where you then put everybodies luggage Roofbox from Hellfrauds please!

The Long wheel base gives more room in the middle row and a bit bigger boot BUT SADLY has no more legroom in the front so it still has less legroom in the front than an A class.

It is not your height that matters but leg length. I am a tad under six foot but am 33 inch inside leg. Although that is a standard M&S trouser size, I find many makes of car have too little legroom. It is possible to drive them with your legs in a sort of V shape, but it is not possible to get the seat back so that your legs are out straight ahead and fully supported behind the thighs -which is normally regarded as the ideal position.

 

[Rory]

You want a cramped cabin, go try the Q7

Audi Q7 just got a bit of a slating in the EuroNCAP tests - it only got 4 stars, the main issue being "Poor welding resulted in rupture of the footwell area. There was separation of the seam connecting the firewall to the footwell and failure of spot-welds in the footwell and its connection to the A-pillar... Structures in the dashboard presented a potential risk to the knees and femurs of the driver."

Audi say the car's been modified now - wonder what happens if you already bought one?


In the same round of tests Mercedes B Class got 5 stars.

 

[glojo]

Audi Q7 just got a bit of a slating in the EuroNCAP tests - it only got 4 stars, the main issue being "Poor welding resulted in rupture of the footwell area. There was separation of the seam connecting the firewall to the footwell and failure of spot-welds in the footwell and its connection to the A-pillar... Structures in the dashboard presented a potential risk to the knees and femurs of the driver."

Audi say the car's been modified now - wonder what happens if you already bought one?

Just imagine the furore if this had been a Mercedes-Benz??

Elk tests... SBC!!

John

 

[pint6x]

you need one of these

 

[jeremytaylor]

A little off topic, but I think Merc missed a trick with the B Class. Should have made it a 3+3 like the Fiat Multipla and Honda FRV. They missed a whole target audience there of people with four kids who still need to carry the associated luggage.

I read that the next Multipla will be a 5/7-seater, i.e. with only 2 seats up front. I think the biggest market is for this configuration (look how well the Zafira has been selling compared to the 5-seat only Focus C-Max). I tried a Multipla a few years back but for town use I think it is just toooo wide.