R Class versus Q7

[Bobby Dazzler]

The Long wheel base gives more room in the middle row and a bit bigger boot BUT SADLY has no more legroom in the front so it still has less legroom in the front than an A class.

I am a tad under six foot but am 33 inch inside leg. Although that is a standard M&S trouser size, I find many makes of car have too little legroom.

Made me smile after a day of management meetings and resource planning!!

You lucky devil. I reckon I'm a 32 - M&S 33" are touch too long, and M&S 31" a touch too short!! Means I have to try every pair on, rather than pick and pay!!

Back to topic...

 

[hawk20]

Made me smile after a day of management meetings and resource planning!!

You lucky devil. I reckon I'm a 32 - M&S 33" are touch too long, and M&S 31" a touch too short!! Means I have to try every pair on, rather than pick and pay!!

Back to topic...

John Lewis do 32 inch. Only one I know who does. Happy hunting.

 

[BTB 500]

M&S have a tailoring service now who will alter to fit, if necessary.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Thanks for the suggestions folks!! I'll see if eating/drinking more dairy will help my leg bones grow another inch!!

 

[fuzzer]

Sure you are on the right forum?

Of course , i took my mercedes rose tinted glasses off about 2 years ago and realised there is more to life than a star ... I am totally unbias. Doing about 80k year and changing cars every 12-18 months ive been through loads and loads and loads. I see the dealer lots. The dealer knows this and is required to make my experence being there as good as possible. Mercedes just can't cut it right now. Who knows a change in management direction might be what they are needing.

Yes mercedes have only just caught up with the current X5 with the ML. Driving dynamics werent a strong point with the previous generation ML. Yes ive had one round a racetrack and they hang on for grim death when cornering well enough , but its just wrong ..

The BM's all look ugly nowadays and customer satisfaction on JD Power for the 5 series is way below that of the C and E class Mercs.

ok , so tell me what position the ML came in the JD power survey ...

 

[Rory]

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[fuzzer]

geepers creepers

kiss goodbye to those residuals ...

 

[glojo]

I wonder if perhaps these 'popular' vehicles are not really as popular as we are led to believe?

John

 

[hawk20]

I wonder if perhaps these 'popular' vehicles are not really as popular as we are led to believe?

John

Actually nobody would describe the R class as a popular vehicle. It was a silly idea in the first place, poorly executed by people with limited common sense. It has failed because it deserved to fail. It was obvious to me the first time I sat in it that it would be a flop. Having booked a test drive I sat in it, realised it was cramped and ill conceived, and didn't even bother to drive it.

It could be rescued by turning it into a big 5 seater estate car. Totally conventional like a big E class estate. Then it could have lots of room in the front (completely lacking now), lots of room in the back, and a huge boot/load area. Great. Then it could offer two occasional extra seats for children (just like the E class estate but bigger). Then mean minded accountants should be kept away while someone fits proper luxury seats in it that offer the kind of adjustment found in ordinary cars nowadays (you know like the tilt adjustment for the squab they meanly left out and so on). Then an engineer with a brain should be asked to redesign the lifting mechanism on the front seat so that when you raise the seat it should either go up vertically like an S class or swing backwards to increase the meagre legroom -rather than stupidly swinging forwards to reduce legroom as it does now.

Trouble is, it is probably too late now to rescue it. Once the word is out on a flop it is hard to turn the clock back.

 

[glojo]

It could be rescued by turning it into a big 5 seater estate car. Totally conventional like a big E class estate. Then it could have lots of room in the front (completely lacking now), lots of room in the back, and a huge boot/load area.

There is someone on this forum, who for years has been advocating for a larger estate! Can't think who that can be at present!!

What about an S-class estate!! Why on earth bother with all these silly 'mongrel' type interbred versions?

John

 

[Swiss Toni]

Every dog has its day - and the R Class finally finds its role in "life".

 

[glojo]

Every dog has its day - and the R Class finally finds its role in "life".

Having now seen that rear quarter window blanked off, I stand by my very first comments about that rear quarter window looks wrong. It should be much larger.

There is certainly a very easy upgrade to make this model more attractive.

John

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Actually nobody would describe the R class as a popular vehicle. It was a silly idea in the first place, poorly executed by people with limited common sense. It has failed because it deserved to fail.

I value your opinion, but maybe saying it deserved to fail is a little strong. Unfortunately only the market knows what the market wants - focus groups and the like can only tell manufacturers so much, the acid test is when the customer puts their hands in their pocket.

On the face of it, it does seem that the R-Class is probably selling in relatively few numbers, but the business case may have been built upon that expectation, and for all you know may actually be fairly successful against that criteria.

To push the boundaries you have to do something different. The R-Class is MB doing something different. Without it we wouldn't have technical innovations like airbags (must have seemed a little odd at first), people carriers (surely seen as a van with windows), luxury SUVs (maybe Land Rover owners couldn't see the point of carpets when they were put in Range Rovers), and there are probably many more if I pushed.

For a little over £27k it's a lot of car, and I've got to say, my top notch is twitching (if you watch cbeebies you'll know) - I'm tempted!!

 

[hawk20]

To push the boundaries you have to do something different. The R-Class is MB doing something different. Without it we wouldn't have technical innovations like airbags (must have seemed a little odd at first), people carriers (surely seen as a van with windows), luxury SUVs (maybe Land Rover owners couldn't see the point of carpets when they were put in Range Rovers), and there are probably many more if I pushed.

Really? What is it doing that is different? Aren't there loads of MPV's with 6 or 7 seats and many at half the proper listed price of around £40k with modest extras. How does it greatly differ from a Galaxy or Sharan or Previa? Or the Vauxhalls or Renaults of the type?

SUV's are marvellous and were new. 4x4 is useful in many parts of the UK in winter, and for towing boats and caravans. And great for farmers and other rural uses. So offered a genuine set of functions all outdoor, and macho/work related or leisure or sporty. Gave real image and something different in looks. The sissy car with its silly colour co-ordinated bumpers that daren't nudge anything without needing a £200 respray, was pushed aside for many by a tough, macho, sporty, leisure-oriented vehicle. Great idea and add to that superb function. The ML I owned was a better estate car than an E class estate. It had more height and was more able to carry larger objects. It had masses of legroom front and rear (unlike the R class which is seriously deficient for the long legged). And when I drive out in the country on narrow roads -too narrow for two cars to pass unless one goes on the wet, slippery, muddy, grass verges- it will oblige by going on the verge and not sticking there with wheelspin. It will tow a boat up a wet slippery slipway and pull a caravan out of a muddy field. The ML is an outstanding estate car. Estate cars have a slightly dowdy family man image (goodness knows why -used to be 'shooting brakes') but they are immensely practical and so useful. So the 4x4, which is a glorified but better estate car, with better image for many, filled and created a real niche. Now 40% of all 'cars'/vehicles over £30,000 are 4x4's. Amazing.

Personally I do not think cars with 6 seats set in three rows with inadequate legroom and a tiny boot will ever amount to a share of the market worth measuring. In fact, I think GLOJO is right that an S class estate would outsell the R class. But why not make the R class into a large estate with proper legroom, good seats and a huge boot and occasional extra seats for children like the E? Wouldn't that sell better?

And why not a convertible E class like we used to have and which sold really well?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Really? What is it doing that is different? Aren't there loads of MPV's with 6 or 7 seats and many at half the proper listed price of around £40k with modest extras. How does it greatly differ from a Galaxy or Sharan or Previa? Or the Vauxhalls or Renaults of the type?

Yep there are loads of MPVs with 6 or 7 seats.

You asked, "What is it doing that is different?" I think you just partly answered that yourself. MPVs are by and larger marketed by the likes of Vauxhall and Renault (as you say), at half the price of the R-Class (again as you say).

I think it would be fair to say that most MPVs are currently aimed at function rather than luxury, just like early off-road vehicles were. The luxury element is relatively new to SUVs, and very new to MPVs - one way in which the R-Class is different.

MPVs are generally 2WD, and often FWD. The R-Class is 4WD.

I can't think of another 6 seater with 4x4 and a luxurious interior, except for a SUVs (in which case there are several). Maybe you know of one, but I don't, so it can't be a big seller either.

Neither luxury, having more than 5 seats, and 4WD are unique to the R-Class. Many cars, have one or more of them. Possibly a major reason that SUVs have boomed is because of demand for these attributes in a single vehicle.

Isn't the R-Class stretching those attributes to a vehicle that isn't quite an SUV, and therefore appealing to those that don't quite need an SUV? Take our family for example, we have an ML as our family car, and it was selected for reasons such as:

(1) It's a relatively safe place to put the two most important things in my life. They are my main concern, but it doesn't mean I want to endanger other road users.

(2) It's high up making it easy for us to put our daughter in and out of her child seat. Whilst extra height makes it easier, we could get much of that benefit from a car that is not quite as tall as an SUV. The same applies to having enough headroom for our dog to stand in the boot if she wants too.

(3) It's 4WD chassis and weight makes it an ideal tow car, especially when caravanning outside of the drier summer months. Another car with 4WD and some weight behind it would be similarly well suited to towing, but doesn't need to be an SUV.

(4) Oh, and I happen to like Mercedes-Benz vehicles, and am very fortunate enough to be able to have one.

Based upon these criteria, an R-Class is an equally good match for my family's needs as an ML, and has slightly better road safety and environmental credentials. Pressure from environmental groups and road safety groups have created an anti-SUV feeling amongst elements of the community, and is an increasing concern for SUV owners.

The ML I owned was a better estate car than an E class estate. It had more height and was more able to carry larger objects. It had masses of legroom front and rear (unlike the R class which is seriously deficient for the long legged). And when I drive out in the country on narrow roads -too narrow for two cars to pass unless one goes on the wet, slippery, muddy, grass verges- it will oblige by going on the verge and not sticking there with wheelspin. It will tow a boat up a wet slippery slipway and pull a caravan out of a muddy field. The ML is an outstanding estate car. Estate cars have a slightly dowdy family man image (goodness knows why -used to be 'shooting brakes') but they are immensely practical and so useful. So the 4x4, which is a glorified but better estate car, with better image for many, filled and created a real niche. Now 40% of all 'cars'/vehicles over £30,000 are 4x4's. Amazing.

Much of what has been described above is true for the R-Class surely? "Estate car" ish, "more height", "able to carry larger objects", "will oblige by going on the verge and not sticking there with wheelspin", "tow a boat up a wet slippery slipway", "pull a caravan out of a muddy field", can be applied to the R in the same way as an ML - can't it?

I've yet to sit in an R-Class but I'll take your comments regarding leg room and boot space as fact. However I suspect it would be sufficient for our families needs. Most of the time we only really carry people or luggage. We don't often carry lots of both. In fact we never do, as if we're going on holiday, our extra passengers 'at home' go in their on car. So I'm not particularly concerned.

So in summary, it does pretty much everything an SUV is justifed by, but in a slightly different package, with no real direct competitors, except SUVs. I'd say that is different.

I think I'm steadily convincing myself that an R-Class would be a good move, for our family.

Wow, glad I got this lot off my chest!!

 

[BTB 500]

I can't think of another 6 seater with 4x4 and a luxurious interior, except for a SUVs (in which case there are several). Maybe you know of one, but I don't, so it can't be a big seller either.

I have one (in fact it's a 7-seater) ... Volkswagen Sharan 4Motion in top 'Carat' (wood & leather) spec. But it's a very niche model, definitely not a big seller. Which is why no other 'full size' MPVs are sold in the UK with 4WD - just not enough demand for it. Same issue as M-B not selling their 4WD estates in the UK.

Just thought, you can get permanent 4WD on the Vito van now, so there could be a 4WD version of the Viano MPV in the pipeline. Hang on though - that might take sales away from the R Class, so maybe not!

 

[hawk20]

I think I'm steadily convincing myself that an R-Class would be a good move, for our family.

Wow, glad I got this lot off my chest!!

Well fine. You could well join the only 500 others who have bought one so far. But let me ask you this. If they gave it as much legroom in front as an A class (not much to ask surely) and decent front seats with as much adjustment as even cheap cars have (like tilt adjustment on the squab), and a bench seat behind with ample legroom for adults (like an E class estate) and a big boot (like an E class estate) and occasional seats in the rear for children (like an E class estate) would you still want it as much or less. I only ask because if they did those things I would want it too, as would many others, as it would be like an S class estate but with 4WD. Then it might sell. But now with poor seats, lack of legroom, a tiny boot, and a gap between the seats for all your luggage to slide through, frankly it's a joke.

 

[Brett]

frankly it's a joke.

So you like it then?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

So you like it then?

I'm off next week and my cars in for some work. I might ask if I can have their R-Class for a while. Will report back on whether my enthusiasm (maybe flawed) remains.

 

[hawk20]

So you like it then?

Actually Brett I really meant to buy one, waited for it, followed all the pre briefings and so on. So frankly I was really disappointed when the day for the test drive came and I just couldn't get comfortable in the front (lack of legroom and no tilt on squab) nor in the middle seats. And my wife said no way we could get our luggage in it for holidays etc. Only time I've ever gone for a test drive, got in the car and got straight out without even bothering to drive it. Real disappointment. And frankly stunned by the sheer incompetence of the design team.