Respray the stretched limo

[television]

John, re finishing is done at 80c the max safe temperature. It is left in there longer to allow the top coat to harden. During manufacture the temp is higher to get a faster through put of the shells when building and the drying time can be halved.

It is the same cooking longer lower temp, quicker at higher.

Re Halfords, no they cant supply the correct paint, like all top coats Nano Ceramic is a 2 component so you cant have it in one tin or aerosol, if you mixed up your own and applied it , it would take 48 hours to get dust proof without an oven.

The top coat supplied by touch ups and aerosols are cellulose based, that's why they are darker when applied over 2 component finishes.

This paint was not a MB spec, it was designed by the paint manufactures to over come Car wash plants in Germany

 

[hawk20]

Edit
Hi Hawk20
Thanks for the reply and it puts this topic tgo bed. They use a suitable product that has similar characteristics but can be appliued post production?

I hope you can understand why I doubted how anyone can apply the original? They use an approved product with different characteristics.

They are spot on with the coding on the B pillar.

Thanks again

John

AFTER the initial development of the new Lacquers, Mercedes developed a version of the highly scratch resistant paint that could be applied by bodyshops. Here is the relevant section from the Triangle Sprays answer to my e-mail: -
We use Spies-Hecker and the scratch-resistant lacquer, which contains minute particles of ceramic, which make the fully-cured material very hard. The low-bake version of this lacquer, which is what we use, was developed after the high-bake material so that the refinishing market could replicate the factory technology and it is approved by DaimlerChrysler as part of the Mobilo Life paint warranty.

 

[hawk20]

This paint was not a MB spec, it was designed by the paint manufactures to over come Car wash plants in Germany

I think that is unfair. As John's link shows Merc had a four year development programme with the paint manufacturers to develop this paint to be suitable for all their needs. Mercedes were also the first vehicle manufacturer to use this paint in production.

 

[television]

I think that is unfair. As John's link shows Merc had a four year development programme with the paint manufacturers to develop this paint to be suitable for all their needs. Mercedes were also the first vehicle manufacturer to use this paint in production.

Let me just clarify what I said or meant, sure if all car manufactures asked for a tougher finish, then the paint manufcture does that, though MB might have been the first to use the Nano ceramic, Spies Hecker market that paint and it is used by other car manufacturers. Without studying BMW and VAG it is impossible to say what the input was from each.

When the hand washing of cars in Germany was banned, a couple of years back, something had to be done to stop the Auto cash wash effect on the paint.

A development program would have meant that Spies Hecker would have developed it in conjunction with MB and they would test it for some time.

It is not a wrong or right situation as no one is right or wrong, so no bad feelings please, like many of these things it depends on who wrote what in the first place

 

[glojo]

Let me just clarify what I said or meant, sure if all car manufactures asked for a tougher finish, then the paint manufcture does that, though MB might have been the first to use the Nano ceramic, Spies Hecker market that paint and it is used by other car manufacturers. Without studying BMW and VAG it is impossible to say what the input was from It is not a wrong or right situation as no one is right or wrong, so no bad feelings please, like many of these things it depends on who wrote what in the first place.

I think we have flogged this topic to death and thanks to Hawks contact it is quite clear that Mercedes use one formulae of top coat for the original application and then perhps other suppliers produce something else to the trade for any further applications. My observations have always been very specific and I have never refered to any third party product hence my remarks to Halfords (This was never meant as a specific and for Halfords please insert Spies-Hecker and Glasurit or the Du-Pont group and the latter by BASF coatings. Also the Mobilo bit is perhaps a slight red herring which has absolutely NOTHING to do with this debate. Mobilo has been going on fora number of years, way, way longer than this new hardened top coating.

The original top coat requires a specific procedure which we have perhaps established cannot be replicated in independant body-shops? My educated guess is that the paint that your referring to that bakes at a slightly lower temperature might be similar to that used by Hawk20's source?

Being very pedantic I would doubt the 2002 reference by Triangle Sprays is reliable, I have heard of one September\October 2003 E-class having this latest technology but dozens of owners have pointed out that there November\December 2003 cars never had it.

This is an extract from Mercedes-Benz:
After four years of development work, an innovative new clear lacquer is set to go into series production at Mercedes-Benz at the end of 2003. Ground-breaking nano-technology ensures that the new product is substantially more scratch-resistant than conventional paint. The E, S, CL, SL and SLK-Class model series are the first cars in the world to be available with this new paint system, whilst customers of other Mercedes models can look forward to the increased scratch resistance of nano-paintwork from spring 2004.

Hopefully we now accept my observations about the 4Matic and the reasons.

Does anyone know what the average temperature a full sized bake oven operates at?

Regards
John

 

[television]

Flash off temperatures for most 2 packs is 40c Dont forget that we have been using this stuff since 1986-7 the bake times are the same.

I have done local work using UV lamps

 

[hawk20]

I agree this horse has been pretty well flogged, but
just to clear up any misunderstandings, John says: -

"Also the Mobilo bit is perhaps a slight red herring which has absolutely NOTHING to do with this debate. Mobilo has been going on for a number of years, way, way longer than this new hardened top coating."

The second sentence of this is true. But anyone wishing to keep MobiloLife intact will need to use an approved bodyshop. And on cars that have had the nanno technology applied in the factory, an approved bodyshop will use the new lacquer. They will use the version developed especially for this purpose. As Triangle Sprays say: -
We use Spies-Hecker and the scratch-resistant lacquer, which contains minute particles of ceramic, which make the fully-cured material very hard. The low-bake version of this lacquer, which is what we use, was developed after the high-bake material so that the refinishing market could replicate the factory technology and it is approved by DaimlerChrysler as part of the Mobilo Life paint warranty.

So let us be clear that it is important to use both an approved bodyshop and approved materials and methods if one wants to keep MobiloLife.
Secondly John says: -

"The original top coat requires a specific procedure which we have perhaps established cannot be replicated in independant body-shops? "

Well fair enough to say we cannot precisely replicate it but Triangle Sprays do say: -

The low-bake version of this lacquer, which is what we use, was developed after the high-bake material so that the refinishing market could replicate the factory technology

I think what we are seeing here is like Television says:- the factory uses high temperatures so as to get speedy curing to facilitate reasonably swift production. The refinishing market use another version of the product which achieves similar properties but requires lower temperatures to use it. Very like Araldite epoxy resin glues. You can have the slow version taking 24 hours to fully cure or Araldite Rapid which goes off almost while you watch. Many chemical reactions can be speeded up by heat.

 

[glojo]

Getting this thread back on topic :

I just dug out the receipt for our current stretched limo. In July 2002 it cost £40,297.00

A £3000 respray is in my opinion a bargain compared to even thinking about replacement.

I have found these alloys but Mercedes-Benz make a specific alloy for the Sprinter. I'm trying to find a picture.

Nother set (don't like them)

Regards
John

 

[Carrotchomper]

What are you talking about Glojo my main ho? You need at least 22"s to fill out those arches. And I thought you was a pimp daddy dog!

 

[glojo]

What are you talking about Glojo my main ho? You need at least 22"s to fill out those arches. And I thought you was a pimp daddy dog!

If I had those 22" wheels then just like me, my 'wheels' would be able to walk on water

The local dealer has sent me a picture of the Sprinter alloy, but blowed if I can find an Internet picture.

Dieselman has made a good suggestion about plastic wheel trims, but it is just something I would never like, so I could never grow to like anything they represented

 

[Carrotchomper]

You could always get the plastic trims with "spinners", they would be smart...

If you are going down the alloy route then, whilst the big tyres will help protect them, you need to instruct the boss in the tactics of kerb avoidance...

 

[hawk20]

And big wheels with low profile tyres equals worse ride and some reduction in fuel economy due to extra rolling resistance, increased frontal area etc. You can see on Merc website that optional big wheels often/usually increase CO2 emissions.

 

[GrahamC230K]

Small alloys look worse than steel wheels IMO. For the vehicles purpose I would leave it as it is. Plenty smart enough.

 

[glojo]

you need to instruct the boss in the tactics of kerb avoidance...

She that must be obeyed is the O.I.C. of the 211. I inspect those wheels at every Divisional Parade.

Hi Graham,
I certainly take onboard what your saying and the last thing I want is to make the vehicle look silly.

My son has stuck some alloys onto a van and in my opinion it endorses your very valid point.

I now want to see what it looks like with the standard Sprinter alloys. I think the gaps between the spokes graphically highlight your point.

 

[television]

John, just going back to ovens.
The car is sprayed in the oven booth, the oven is then turned on and taken up to 70c for 10 mins then turned off.

Just to end any confusion on the process, every body builder has their own paint supplier and your car will be finished in accordance with that paint makers guide.

This is not the place for guarantee paint processes for repairs that all paint makers produce, the new water based top coats will dry to a workable hardness in 6 mins using UV. this is ok for discussion somewhere else

Relax in peace

 

[Dieselman]

If you want to stick with steel wheels but reduce the flat silver look you could paint them black/dark grey with silver rims, similar to UPS delivery vans...or Howards car.

Looks good in real life but maybe needs the darker body colour to work.

 

[jaymanek]

similar to UPS delivery vans...or Howards car.

[/IMG]

LOL!!!!

 

[glojo]

Looks good in real life but maybe needs the darker body colour to work.

Thank you very much indeed for the valuable input. I'm trying to picture the result, but I have a niggling doubt that the centres would matc the tealite blue?

To me chrome wheels always sound very 'blingish' but I wonder what they would look like against the blue exterior colour? (bouncing ideas as opposed to suggesting)

The body-shop have already been in contact regarding two queries and the questions they asked have
impressed me regarding the quality of their workmanship.

John

Edit:

similar to UPS delivery vans...or Howards car.

I could be cruel and say, "What's the difference?" but I won't because I like Howard's car and it looks very nice. If it didn't then I would, but it does so I won't!!!

 

[Dieselman]

The body-shop have already been in contact regarding two queries and the questions they asked have
impressed me regarding the quality of their workmanship.

Asking if it was the inside or the outside that wanted painting and which way up you would like the paint wouldn't impress me.

 

[Dieselman]

John
Here is a rough (very) mockup of black wheel centres. Very stealthy..and Gangsta.

And the Chav van has chrome wheels for an indication.