Respray the stretched limo

[hawk20]

Not me personally, you're not my type.

My tiny heart is broken.

 

[hawk20]

To John the doubter I say there is no reason why Mercedes cannot heat ovens up to 140C in any factory whether in Timbuktoo, Greece or Austria. Housewives do it in all countries. It is just a bigger oven with a bigger owner with a lot more money.

Now, as for recommended Sprayshops, mine says they bake the lacquer on at 80C. I do not know whether the lacquer they use (supplied and approved by Mercedes) is chemically somewhat different from the factory lacquer so as to allow for the temperature difference. I could ask them if you like.

 

[television]

These new paints developed by MB were in response to the new rules in Germany last year when street washing was banned and all car wash booths had to get a 95% water recycle rate.

 

[hawk20]

After four years of development work, an innovative new clear lacquer went into series production at Mercedes-Benz at the end of 2003.

 

[glojo]

To John the doubter I say there is no reason why Mercedes cannot heat ovens up to 140C in any factory whether in Timbuktoo, Greece or Austria. Housewives do it in all countries. It is just a bigger oven with a bigger owner with a lot more money.

Now, as for recommended Sprayshops, mine says they bake the lacquer on at 80C. I do not know whether the lacquer they use (supplied and approved by Mercedes) is chemically somewhat different from the factory lacquer so as to allow for the temperature difference. I could ask them if you like.

On a serious note it would be interesting if you could ask. It is just the clear coat that we or me is interested in.

I have no idea whether this top coat reacts at the lower temperature of 176 Fahrenheit, but I wouldn't like the heating bill of keeping a booth up to that temperature. 140 degrees centigrade is about 284 degrees Fahrenheit so again I reckon that is on the warmish side We are not talking about a creda oven, but a large spray booth capable of taking cars, vans etc.

The Austrian factory that built the E-class did not have this capability.

John

 

[hawk20]

On a serious note it would be interesting if you could ask. It is just the clear coat that we or me is interested in.

I have no idea whether this top coat reacts at the lower temperature of 176 Fahrenheit, but I wouldn't like the heating bill of keeping a booth up to that temperature. 140 degrees centigrade is about 284 degrees Fahrenheit so again I reckon that is on the warmish side We are not talking about a creda oven, but a large spray booth capable of taking cars, vans etc.

The Austrian factory that built the E-class did not have this capability.

John

Well the link article you gave clearly says it went into production in 2003. I give the exact quote above. When were you at the factory last?

I have e-mailed Triangle Sprays . My e-mail says: -
When you recently repaired my bumper on a 2005 S320cdi, I asked about the new Nanno lacquer and the heat needed to use it. In the factory they bake at 140C. Here is a useful Link: -
http://www.ae-plus.com/Key%20topics/kt-materials8.htm

I was told by one of your staff that when bodyshops respray damaged parts of a car like mine with the Nanno lacquer, that you oven bake at 80C. Does this mean you have to use the old lacquer or a different lacquer as the link says the nanno technology only really works at 140C. Or are you able to use Nanno lacquer despite the lower temperature? Many thanks.

I am interested for me if ever I need it and for a friend who wants a major respray.

 

[hawk20]

If anyone in my area ever needs it the link to triangle sprays is: -
http://www.trianglesprays.co.uk/

They specialise in Mercs and Saabs.

 

[glojo]

Well the link article you gave clearly says it went into production in 2003. I give the exact quote above. When were you at the factory last?
.

When was I last at the factory??? What factory

Cars that have nano paint have a different colour coding but you don't need to go to a factory to know that

The E-class was one of the first models to receive this new top coating. The official change over date was Jan 1st 2004, but there were a few lucky owners who had a test batch before this date, The 4matic E-class was produced in Austria so unfortunately for at least another year or so (to my knowledge) did not have the new paintwork.

Visually there is no way I could tell the difference between the two clear coats and I doubt anyone could. I do know of at least one owner in America that had only owned their car for a few months and the front wing was damaged. There was NOT a body shop in California that had the genuine nano based top coat so the owner dug their heels in and insisted the car be resprayed with the correct paint or the vehicle would be refused. The insurance company wrote the vehicle off! No doubt it was resprayed with a perfectly matching exact match colour (color) and sold, but this person was a lawyer and simply dug his heels in. His car had a nano top coating and that was all he demanded when the vehicle was repaired.

The colour coding is different between the non nano vehicles and this coding is conveniently placed

John

 

[glojo]

Hi Hawk,
Just a quicky before I try to get some sleep Please do not think for one minute I am being arguementative, I merely want to be dead certain oif our facts. If your bodyshop can get hold of this new nano top coat then that is terrific because it woirks to my advantage. If he states it is the new coating could you PLEASE find out the name, rank, number and inside leg measurement so that I can pass the information onto my bodyshop so they can then order some for my van :bannana: :bannana:

Thanks again

Goodnight
John

 

[hawk20]

The Austrian factory that built the E-class did not have this capability.

John

Sorry John. It was the above quote that made me think you had been to the factory.

Anyway, have e-mailed Triangle Sprays and will let you know what they reply.

My guess is we shall find that the cars from the factory get the full Nanno treatment at 140C as the article clearly says, and that the repair shops do the best that is practically possible with baking at 80C as Triangle Sprays said. What will be interesting to know is whether they use a different or modified lacquer to cope with the lower temperature.

On TV's point about water virtually soaking into the paint, well the paint layers are water based and not waterproof -essentially emulsions. It is essential to coat them with the lacquer to keep water out and rust at bay. Especially when doing stone chips and the like.

 

[hawk20]

Hi Hawk,
Just a quicky before I try to get some sleep Please do not think for one minute I am being arguementative, I merely want to be dead certain oif our facts. If your bodyshop can get hold of this new nano top coat then that is terrific because it woirks to my advantage. If he states it is the new coating could you PLEASE find out the name, rank, number and inside leg measurement so that I can pass the information onto my bodyshop so they can then order some for my van :bannana: :bannana:

Thanks again

Goodnight
John

No trouble. Sleep well. I'm off too.

 

[television]

I posted all of this info regards the paint on the other site when it first came out, but I cant find it. I do have all of the technical specs here somewhere. I will do my best to find it. I can only go back 500 of my own postings

And yes it was used first on the E class

 

[glojo]

Sorry John. It was the above quote that made me think you had been to the factory.
.

There have been numerous complaints from oweners of the 4Matic stating how it is crazy to design a car to travel in adverse conditions, and not paint it with a coating that offers better protection from stone chippings, grit etc. The older paint is very prone to being chipped and I must confess to sympathising with these owners, if as you claim anyone can apply this paint, then I would submit that anyone would? No doubt your body-shop will explain how they know what vehicles have the new paint.

My own thoughts are that my E-class has the new technology, if I go to a body-shop they will order in the paint for a repair and if I ask is it the same as already on my vehicle they will obviously say yes and do everything to put my mind at rest. When this new technology came out I posted quite a lot of literature about it both on this forum and a US one, but time goes by and this information slowly disappears.

Quite a lot of body-shops no longer see the need to have spray booths capable of baking paintwork and just use localised heating, but we are talking about 140 degrees centigrade. That type of heat is blooming hot and it willl certainly spoil the day of any interior trim or perhaps even the rubber seals?

I will be more confident when your body-shop explains how they tell what cars have the new paint, and what cars don't? That is a very simple question and a very easy one to see.

John

 

[Dieselman]

Personally I wouldn't get too hooked up on wanting nano laquer. It does still chip and is harder to repair due to shaling when sanded back.

The regular laquer will be fine as long as you don't impart swirls by washing with a yard brush..

 

[glojo]

Personally I wouldn't get too hooked up on wanting nano laquer. It does still chip and is harder to repair due to shaling when sanded back.

Totally agree,
I have never even thought about it until Hawk mentioned it. I would be VERY surprised if Mr 'Average' has even heard about it.

I had our son check our 211 and yup, there are one or two chip marks, but our old 210 looked like it had acne!

Regards
John

 

[MBManInKen]

our old 210 looked like it had acne!

Did you try this?

 

[glojo]

Did you try this?

I thought it would be a link to this Me thinks some companies have too much of this

Just noticed the tax expires the last day of June, so I'll leave it until the 14th and then send away the V5

I ordered a new bonnet badge for the Sprinter yesterday afternnon. It has arrived this morning. £6.50 including postage from the main dealer. I could however have bought it from Ebay; the exact same part = £7.99p plus £1.70p postage. The moral is quite clear....... Don't use the stealership

Having said that, I enquired about the price of the backlights et la Flash's pictures and in fairness to both sides. £34.90p each from the dealership or the alleged same units from Ebay at £39.99p plus £7.95p postage the pair. The moral is quite clear....... Don't use the Ebay Or perhaps check before you sign the cheque?

John

 

[television]

We saw a 221 S Class over the weekend almost new, finished in black, ever panel had a dent or scrape, the chips on the front were huge showing the white undercoat.

As Dieselman and Hawk said too hard is brittle. As from Jan 2007 we are stuck with this painting system, there were new directives coming in July as to what cars can be finished in, but they seem to be held up and nothing announced as yet. the 2007 directive says that it will be illegal to place on the market any product that does not comply with the solvent VOC levels and any product that does not comply is banned throughout the EC
Before using Nano ceramic paints the preparation to the existing surface is critical, one of the most important is the uniform flatting and any compounds and flatting must not contain any scratch masking agents as swirl marks will appear some time after, when they have dried out

John, why not get someone to pop into Brown Bros or a paint wholesaler and pick up the info sheets, they cover the whole process.

 

[hawk20]

Glojo, first let me say again, the temperature of 140C is what is used in the factory. IT IS NOT USED BY repair, respray people. The recommended Merc bodyshops use ovens at 80C as I posted earlier.

I said I would e-mail Triangle Sprays, freom whom I have had a very informative reply. And it does answer your question about how to tell which lacquer you have. It says: -


Good Morning Hawk20,

The new scratch-resistant lacquer, which has a brand-name of Ceramiclear, is extensively used on Mercedes Benz passenger cars and was applied on-line in the factory from 2002 on the more expensive range, then moved onto all productive models, with the exception of the A Class and derivatives, which uses dry-slurry technology which flows when baked. Vehicles painted in Ceramiclear are identified by the letter ‘C’ or ‘K’ before or after the colour code on the VIN sticker on the offside ‘B’ pillar.

At the factory, all vehicles are finished in High-Bake paints based upon Acrylic materials. The bodyshell is painted and then subjected to high-temperature baking on a conveyor belt. As the shell is made of either steel or alluminium, depending on what model it is, it is possible to do this. However, once windscreens, interior trim and the mechanical components are added, this is no longer possible as they would all melt or crack. Therefore, when a vehicle is painted post-manufacture, the next best product has to be used, which is low-bake acrylic material. This is formulated to respond to temperatures from +5 degrees Centigrade once the hardener has been added to the clear lacquer and accelerates in hardening time as the temperature is increased. Therefore, if a car is sprayed and left to air-dry at the present temperature range, it would be hard enough to work on in the morning but if one takes the temperature up to 80 degrees, it is ready to come out of the oven after 40 minutes and, after standing for around 30 minutes, is hard enough to denib, polish then fit up.

As a matter of interest, the plastic components of a car are painted in low-bake material in a separate part of the factory as they cannot be baked at those temperatures such as the bodywork is. These are then taken to the vehicle to be assembled and are often a slightly different shade of colour to the body due to a different material being used. A flexible additive is added to this material to allow it to flex with the softer base product, otherwise if it were made too hard it would crack or craze, rather like icing on a jelly! The plastic parts do not have scratch-resistant lacquer, only the bodywork, because I understand that the flexible additive negates the point of hard lacquer.

Essentially, DaimlerChrysler U.K only approve two paint brands for repair work, namely Spies-Hecker and Glasurit, the former being manufactured by the Du-Pont group and the latter by BASF coatings, two of the biggest chemical manufacturers in the World. We use Spies-Hecker and the scratch-resistant lacquer, which contains minute particles of ceramic, make the fully-cured material very hard. The low-bake version of this lacquer, which is what we use, was developed after the high-bake material so that the refinishing market could replicate the factory technology and it is approved by DaimlerChrysler as part of the Mobilo Life paint warranty.

I hope this clarifies the situation. The above information is as we understand the situation to be, based upon what we are told by the Paint Manufacturer and when attending DaimlerChrysler courses and conferences so we believe it to be true!

Regards

Mike Whitley
Partner, Triangle Sprays

 

[glojo]

John, why not get someone to pop into Brown Bros or a paint wholesaler and pick up the info sheets, they cover the whole process.

I'm not fussed at all. I don't expect the van to be sprayed with this latest top coating. It could well be pure marketing hype and every manufacturer bakes the new parts at these extreme temperatures of 284 degrees Fahrenheit? I simply don't know, but my whole being tells me this type of temperature will surely play havoc with any fixed non metal parts?

We have all seen the literature where it clearly claims to need this heat to fully activate the paint I am NOT disagreeing with Hawk20, his body-shop has given him the information, but I would go daft if my van was placed in a room that hot? Never mind the foam that might melt or distort but what would happen to the petrol in the tank? The grease, and other lubricants? I believe it is applied when the vehicle is built, but from then on forget it.

An E-class built in December 2003 will have exactly the same tealite blue as our car built in 2004. The only difference is the clear top coating. No one, but no one could tell the difference unless you knew the coding and where to look.

I agree with Dieselman, we are hyping up this top coat, and I for one am not expecting nor asking for it.

I wonder if the term nano top coat has been patented? I ask this because could Halford's or any other paint supplier sell a clear top coating that could be labelled as having the latest nano clear coat, but it can be applied just like any other Halford's spray paint? Is the body-shop talking about the exact same product that Mercedes uses? Or do they buy their paint from a wholesaler?

My van has been taken away on the back of a flat bed, the rear lift just scraped the road surface as it was loaded. Today is really sunny and the paintwork above the windscreen is an extremely light shade of PINK It certainly convinced me that I have done the right thing.

John

Edit
Hi Hawk20
Thanks for the reply and it puts this topic tgo bed. They use a suitable product that has similar characteristics but can be appliued post production?

I hope you can understand why I doubted how anyone can apply the original? They use an approved product with different characteristics.

They are spot on with the coding on the B pillar.

Thanks again

John